ROMANS 11 WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE?

[YourTruthGod]

You believe in works righteousness then for salvation? You are saying the bible does not say we are saved by grace through faith and not by works? (Ephesians 2:8-9)

I believe in faith and obedience.

Jesus' words are powerful and his words did not get nullified.

The 'not of works' Paul was speaking about is the purification works of the law.

 

[Arsenios]

Your question is stupid.

Always instructive to see you manifest YOUR faith, Menno...

A teachable moment, indeed...

Thank-you...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Since no one seeks God, your statement damns all humans to hell.

Romans 3:10-18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
YTG, the Bible refutes you at every turn. Just because you speak a lie continually, it does not make it true.

So do you think this passage is referring to Moses and Isaiah and Abraham and Elijah???


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Always instructive to see you manifest YOUR faith, Menno...

A teachable moment, indeed...

Thank-you...


Arsenios

That had nothing to do with faith. That had to do with a stupid statement that was made.
Arsenios, do you know what God gifted faith is?

 

[MennoSota]

So do you think this passage is referring to Moses and Isaiah and Abraham and Elijah???


Arsenios

It is written to the Christians at Rome. It is a quote that Paul used to show the Roman Christians that God chose them...they didn't choose God.

 

[Lamb]

I believe in faith and obedience.

Jesus' words are powerful and his words did not get nullified.

The 'not of works' Paul was speaking about is the purification works of the law.

Again, Titus says that it's 100% Jesus and not what you do that saves you

Titus 3:4-5 "But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness"

Your obedience is how you live your life because you are a child of God. But it isn't what MAKES you a child of God. Only God makes you His by HIS will.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Again, Titus says that it's 100% Jesus and not what you do that saves you

Jesus saves who he wants to save.
He says he saves those who obey him.

Titus 3:4-5 "But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness"

Not by the righteous deeds of the law---the purification works.

Your obedience is how you live your life because you are a child of God. But it isn't what MAKES you a child of God. Only God makes you His by HIS will.

Luther taught people that, but it is not what the Bible says.

 

[Lamb]

Jesus saves who he wants to save.
He says he saves those who obey him.

Not by the righteous deeds of the law---the purification works.

Luther taught people that, but it is not what the Bible says.

God demands perfect obedience if you're going that route for salvation. How are you doing with that? I doubt you can live your life in perfect obedience. Thankfully Jesus did that for you and you are covered by His righteousness and don't have to try to earn your way to heaven by your failed obedience.

 

[MennoSota]

God demands perfect obedience if you're going that route for salvation. How are you doing with that? I doubt you can live your life in perfect obedience. Thankfully Jesus did that for you and you are covered by His righteousness and don't have to try to earn your way to heaven by your failed obedience.

YTG rejects what God says.
Romans 3:10-11 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Unfortunately his doctrine is similar to the Judaisers whom God calls anathema in Galatians.
Paul says they were bewitched. Sadly, YTG is following that same path.

Galatians 3:1-14 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”? Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

 

[YourTruthGod]

God demands perfect obedience if you're going that route for salvation. How are you doing with that? I doubt you can live your life in perfect obedience. Thankfully Jesus did that for you and you are covered by His righteousness and don't have to try to earn your way to heaven by your failed obedience.

Jesus wasn't being ironic. He told us what to do and we are to do it.

 

[Doug]

I believe in faith and obedience.

Jesus' words are powerful and his words did not get nullified.

The 'not of works' Paul was speaking about is the purification works of the law.

Hello

According to the verse below, we can not be saved by our obedience, we are saved only according to his purpose and grace.

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 Timothy 1:9

Even if the purification works of the law were removed, the law still demanded righteousness.

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. Philippians 3:6

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4

We are not saved by our own righteousness

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Philippians 3:9

Even if the purification works of the law are removed we are still left with our sin.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8

 

[YourTruthGod]

Hello

According to the verse below, we can not be saved by our obedience, we are saved only according to his purpose and grace.

God's purpose and grace, you say. You think God doesn't want us to obey and that it is grace? No way is that scriptural.

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 Timothy 1:9

That is about how we don't have to clean ourselves and go to the temple where God's Spirit was. It is about Jesus cleaning us of the sins we repent of doing and our becoming the temple!

Even if the purification works of the law were removed, the law still demanded righteousness.

That's right, and God still demands it.

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. Philippians 3:6

You badly misunderstand Paul.
Paul is speaking about how he RESISTED the truth about Jesus. That means that Paul did NOT want to believe that he didn't have to sacrifice animals anymore and how it doesn't matter anymore if one is blood related to Abraham!

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4

How do YOU EVER get that scripture means we don't have to obey Jesus?
Jesus made it so that we can be reconciled to God by he himself cleaning us and living in us---to those who OBEY!

We are not saved by our own righteousness

We are reconciled to God by Jesus' righteousness. That doesn't mean that humans don't have to be righteous at all according to what God expects of humans!

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Philippians 3:9

Even if the purification works of the law are removed we are still left with our sin.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8

Good grief, none of that means we don't have to obey God to get saved and to stay saved.

 

[MennoSota]

God's purpose and grace, you say. You think God doesn't want us to obey and that it is grace? No way is that scriptural.

That is about how we don't have to clean ourselves and go to the temple where God's Spirit was. It is about Jesus cleaning us of the sins we repent of doing and our becoming the temple!


That's right, and God still demands it.



You badly misunderstand Paul.
Paul is speaking about how he RESISTED the truth about Jesus. That means that Paul did NOT want to believe that he didn't have to sacrifice animals anymore and how it doesn't matter anymore if one is blood related to Abraham!

How do YOU EVER get that scripture means we don't have to obey Jesus?
Jesus made it so that we can be reconciled to God by he himself cleaning us and living in us---to those who OBEY!


We are reconciled to God by Jesus' righteousness. That doesn't mean that humans don't have to be righteous at all according to what God expects of humans!


Good grief, none of that means we don't have to obey God to get saved and to stay saved.

Why do you believe in salvation by keeping the law?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Why do you believe in salvation by keeping the law?

Which law?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Doesn't saint Paul explicitly state that the wild olive tree in his imagery is people from the gentile nations? You can't be having difficulty identifying the wild olive tree unless you didn't read what is in Romans.

 

[MennoSota]

Which law?

I don't care.
Why do you believe in salvation by keeping the law?

 

[Doug]

God's purpose and grace, you say. You think God doesn't want us to obey and that it is grace? No way is that scriptural.

That is about how we don't have to clean ourselves and go to the temple where God's Spirit was. It is about Jesus cleaning us of the sins we repent of doing and our becoming the temple!


That's right, and God still demands it.



You badly misunderstand Paul.
Paul is speaking about how he RESISTED the truth about Jesus. That means that Paul did NOT want to believe that he didn't have to sacrifice animals anymore and how it doesn't matter anymore if one is blood related to Abraham!

How do YOU EVER get that scripture means we don't have to obey Jesus?
Jesus made it so that we can be reconciled to God by he himself cleaning us and living in us---to those who OBEY!


We are reconciled to God by Jesus' righteousness. That doesn't mean that humans don't have to be righteous at all according to what God expects of humans!


Good grief, none of that means we don't have to obey God to get saved and to stay saved.

Hi

You said....You think God doesn't want us to obey and that it is grace? No way is that scriptural.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Titus 2:11-12

You misunderstood me

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't care.
Why do you believe in salvation by keeping the law?

Remaining in Christ's love is tied to obeying Christ's commandments. If you think of Commandments as law then that means that remaining in Christ's love is tied to obeying Christ's laws. Could that be tying obedience to Christ's law to salvation? Can one be saved without remaining in Christ's love? By the way, what has this stuff to do with identifying the wild olive tree in Romans?

 

[MennoSota]

Remaining in Christ's love is tied to obeying Christ's commandments. If you think of Commandments as law then that means that remaining in Christ's love is tied to obeying Christ's laws. Could that be tying obedience to Christ's law to salvation? Can one be saved without remaining in Christ's love? By the way, what has this stuff to do with identifying the wild olive tree in Romans?

What confuses you about Jesus words?
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I don't care.
Why do you believe in salvation by keeping the law?

Jesus says.