ROMANS 11 WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE?

[YourTruthGod]

Yes way. In the garden, it was God's grace that spared Adam and Eve, not their repentance.

Good grief, they were cast away from God.
And then in the time of Noah, only eight were saved.

In Ur of the Chaldese it was grace that chose Abraham and provided the promise to all God's elect.

What? The people who were blood related to Abraham were chosen because they were Abraham’s children, grand children, great grandchildren, etc.

That also disproves Calvinism.

The Mosaic Law never saved anyone.

Hahahaha Get a hold of yourself. If a person didn’t want to get cut off from God, then they couldn't stop doing what the law said to do, the law as given to Moses FROM GOD.

The law was given to show people they are sinners who cannot justify their sins or perform rituals to make themselves holy through acts of self-righteousness. God never considered them to be His children by their self-righteous purification rituals.

That is an ignorant thing to say. God told them to purify themselves.

If He had...there would have been no reason for Jesus, our Redeemer.

That is another ignorant thing to say.
If Jesus didn’t come, you would have to do those purification works if you wanted to call yourself a child of God.

Job would have never declared:
Job 19:25-27 For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!
You have created a false god who is inconsistent in his redemptive plan.

You have so far spoke against the scriptures and what God did and said.

No. First, humans cannot will themselves to stop sinning. Second, no self-righteous action ever saved a person. You are wrong.

God said to repent of sins and offer sacrifices.

Repentance means "To turn from one thing toward another thing." 1 Thessalonians describes repentance. Notice it is an effect...caused by God.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Believers WILL repent...

No, not all believers repent of their sins.

because God has made them alive with Christ.

God does not make unbelievers believe and repent. God SAVES those who believe and repent.

The Holy Spirit moves us to repentance by his counseling work in our lives.

As long as you and Arsenios continue to preach a false gospel of works salvation, you will fail to comprehend God's grace.

Arsenios and you both go by the teachings of men who taught falseness.

 

[YourTruthGod]

If not by grace then it's by works and scriptures tells us that salvation is NOT by works in Ephesians.

Repentance is turning back to God. Acts 3:19.

Paul is explaining that it is not by the works of the law, which is the purification works.

Paul is not saying it is by faith and doing nothing.

Ephesians 2:11 [ Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ ] Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

 

[MennoSota]

Don't be silly. I know the scriptures and they do not refute what I say.

They refute John Calvin.

Apparently you don't know it as well as you imagine.
John 6:26-40 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Notice, not one reference about a person having to repent before God can act.
John 10:1-18,25-30 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again...no requirements before God acts.
John 17:10-26 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify themin the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself,that they also may be sanctifiedin truth. “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
Notice a third time that there is no requirement before God acts.
Jesus refutes your false gospel. You are wrong.

 

[MennoSota]

Good grief, they were cast away from God.
And then in the time of Noah, only eight were saved.

What? The people who were blood related to Abraham were chosen because they were Abraham’s children, grand children, great grandchildren, etc.

That also disproves Calvinism.


Hahahaha Get a hold of yourself. If a person didn’t want to get cut off from God, then they couldn't stop doing what the law said to do, the law as given to Moses FROM GOD.


That is an ignorant thing to say. God told them to purify themselves.


That is another ignorant thing to say.
If Jesus didn’t come, you would have to do those purification works if you wanted to call yourself a child of God.



You have so far spoke against the scriptures and what God did and said.


God said to repent of sins and offer sacrifices.


No, not all believers repent of their sins.

God does not make unbelievers believe and repent. God SAVES those who believe and repent.

Arsenios and you both go by the teachings of men who taught falseness.

Your gospel is false. It is the same works based gospel that Paul calls anathema in his letter to the Galatians. You will die in your sins by your gospel.

 

[Lamb]

Paul is explaining that it is not by the works of the law, which is the purification works.

Paul is not saying it is by faith and doing nothing.

Ephesians 2:11 [ Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ ] Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

Titus 3:4-6 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

Sanctification is the term to describe the Christian life. Paul definitely tells the listener that it is what Jesus has done that saves us, not what we do.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Your gospel is false. It is the same works based gospel that Paul calls anathema in his letter to the Galatians. You will die in your sins by your gospel.

HAHAHA
Paul did not rebuke the Galatians for obeying Jesus too much.

That is insanity to ever think that Paul was rebuking the Galatians for thinking their obedience had anything to do with their salvation.

Paul rebuked the Galatians for being talked into thinking they had to observe special days and get circumcised in the flesh.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Apparently you don't know it as well as you imagine.
John 6:26-40 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Notice, not one reference about a person having to repent before God can act.
John 10:1-18,25-30 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again...no requirements before God acts.
John 17:10-26 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify themin the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself,that they also may be sanctifiedin truth. “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
Notice a third time that there is no requirement before God acts.
Jesus refutes your false gospel. You are wrong.

Oh wow, Jesus came and taught to believe in him and he gave many commands to do when he walked the earth.

All the scriptures that say to 'believe' in Jesus, they mean believe what Jesus says and obey him.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Titus 3:4-6 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

The works that Paul is speaking of are the purification works of the law.

A person who gets saved was WASHED of the sins they repented of doing.

Sanctification is the term to describe the Christian life. Paul definitely tells the listener that it is what Jesus has done that saves us, not what we do.

No way, we have to obey to get saved and to stay saved. Jesus' words are Spirit and life. Just saying yeah I believe will not do anything; we have to actually do what Jesus says to do.

 

[MennoSota]

HAHAHA
Paul did not rebuke the Galatians for obeying Jesus too much.

That is insanity to ever think that Paul was rebuking the Galatians for thinking their obedience had anything to do with their salvation.

Paul rebuked the Galatians for being talked into thinking they had to observe special days and get circumcised in the flesh.

Your comprehension skills are not good. Go back and read what I said and then read the letter to the Galatians.

 

[MennoSota]

Oh wow, Jesus came and taught to believe in him and he gave many commands to do when he walked the earth.

All the scriptures that say to 'believe' in Jesus, they mean believe what Jesus says and obey him.

Again...your comprehension skills ain't great.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Again...your comprehension skills ain't great.

You think Jesus walked the earth for three years teaching things and the people didn't have to believe they had to obey him.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Your comprehension skills are not good. Go back and read what I said and then read the letter to the Galatians.

You are steeped in Calvinism, but I think you know I prove you wrong. Why wouldn't you give up the false teachings for God's Truth?

 

[MennoSota]

You think Jesus walked the earth for three years teaching things and the people didn't have to believe they had to obey him.

Stick to the scriptures I shared. Your question is stupid.
Jesus tells us exactly how people come to believe in John 6, John 10 and John 17. You simply refuse to accept what Jesus tells you. Instead, you take his message of earthly repentance for an earthly kingdom restoration to be about eternal salvation...which it is not.
Jonah preached repentance to Ninevah so the city would be spared. It had nothing to do with eternal salvation.
You have created a false gospel that requires human actions before God can act on behalf of men to save them. Your theology is biblically inaccurate. Actually start reading the Bible and stop forcing works into salvation which nullifies God's grace.

 

[MennoSota]

You are steeped in Calvinism, but I think you know I prove you wrong. Why wouldn't you give up the false teachings for God's Truth?

No, I am steeped in God's revealed word. You are leaning on the crutch of Calvin to ignore the scripture passages I posted, which utterly reject your false gospel.

 

[YourTruthGod]

No, I am steeped in God's revealed word. You are leaning on the crutch of Calvin to ignore the scripture passages I posted, which utterly reject your false gospel.

No such thing as God saving unbelievers. That is what might help you come to give up the false doctrines.

 

[MennoSota]

No such thing as God saving unbelievers. That is what might help you come to give up the false doctrines.

Since no one seeks God, your statement damns all humans to hell.

Romans 3:10-18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
YTG, the Bible refutes you at every turn. Just because you speak a lie continually, it does not make it true.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Since no one seeks God, your statement damns all humans to hell.

Romans 3:10-18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
YTG, the Bible refutes you at every turn. Just because you speak a lie continually, it does not make it true.

You are looking at those scriptures with eyes that were taught wrong.

Look more closely.

Paul was speaking of a specific time when no one sought God.
Paul is showing the Gentiles that Jews sinned too.

Look more closely.

There are scriptures in the Bible that tell us about righteous men.

There are scriptures in the Bible that tell us people searched for God.

 

[Arsenios]

Before Jesus died on the cross, God's people trusted in Him to save them by giving them the promised Messiah from Genesis. Salvation has always been by grace through faith and the faith is trusting in God and that He will forgive them not by their deeds. Repentance is turning away from sin and back to God, the one who forgives and forgiveness is by blood. Not our blood, but Jesus' blood.

When we sin we turn from God but He wants us to keep our eyes on Him. Come let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross...

So what did that saving faith look like, say,
for the first thousand years
of the history
of Salvation
in Christ?

Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

The works that Paul is speaking of are the purification works of the law.

A person who gets saved was WASHED of the sins they repented of doing.



No way, we have to obey to get saved and to stay saved. Jesus' words are Spirit and life. Just saying yeah I believe will not do anything; we have to actually do what Jesus says to do.

You believe in works righteousness then for salvation? You are saying the bible does not say we are saved by grace through faith and not by works? (Ephesians 2:8-9)

 

[Lamb]

So what did that saving faith look like, say,
for the first thousand years
of the history
of Salvation
in Christ?

Arsenios

You want me to say how they lived their lives as children of God? Which would be sanctification? That isn't even what I've been talking about here. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. God hasn't changed His plan ever since He gave it to Adam and Eve after they fell from grace. He had a plan to save us. We don't save ourselves. We live our lives because of the salvation He gives us but it doesn't contribute to His saving us.