It's abhorrent.

[tango]

You may judge it as silly but I don't. I don't think they should be punished and giving them shelter, jobs, etc. are basic necessities and not "rewards."

Of course shelter is a basic necessity but if I create a situation in which I lack shelter nobody else is responsible to correct the decision I made. Giving someone a life in the place they would like to live, having already proven they don't care for playing by the rules, is a reward however you look at it.

Why do you think people who break the law should not be punished?

 

[tango]

Excuse me but that is stupid. Our country should be accessible to new immigrants like it used to be when the Pilgrims came here.

How many new immigrants do you think should be here, given in this context we're talking about immigrants whose very presence here shows they don't care about obeying the law?

 

[tango]

OK you are saying that if you had kids and they were hungry and you knew there were good paying jjobs over the border that no american would fill and you could get them you wouldnt do it? Let me ask you how much the cities have changed since the murder rate soared and drugs are rampant? Not much so I guess they need to escape except that most cant so how is that different than the drug lords and violence that goes on right across the border? I know that this doesnt excuse it but it sure does explain why so many are willing to risk it and taking their kids will not change things it just makes us heartless and cruel.

Whatever I might do in any given situation is nothing to do with the laws that are in place. If the law says a certain person is not allowed to be here, and they come here, they are breaking the law. It really isn't that difficult to figure.

I'm rather curious at your apparently liberal attitude to immigrants here, given your comments in threads gone by about how you think Muslims are ruining Europe. What are the Muslims in Europe if not immigrants?

 

[Arsenios]

How many new immigrants do you think should be here, given in this context we're talking about immigrants whose very presence here shows they don't care about obeying the law?

How about, say, 500 million Chinese?

Then, say, 350 million from India and Pakistan...

Not to mention, say, a hundred million from the Americas...

I am not seeing any solutions except ethicized open borders...

Arsenios

 

[davedajobauk]

My relatives came to the US using LEGAL methods. They weren't criminals trying to get away with doing something illegal.

Who complained when children were put in foster care when Obama was president?
Thousands of Children Stuck in Foster Care after Parents Deported, Report Finds
http://immigrationimpact.com/2011/1...ter-care-after-parents-deported-report-finds/

Isn't that ABDUCTION / KIDNAPPING ?

 

[Albion]

You may judge it as silly but I don't. I don't think they should be punished and giving them shelter, jobs, etc. are basic necessities and not "rewards."

What is so moral about rewarding those who came here illegally at the expense of the poor of our own nation?

Of course, a limited number of people being helped on an emergency basis is the American way and we have done it far more than any other country. BUT we cannot simply allow half the world to come here without skills and without us even knowing who most of them are...to claim what our citizens paid in order to educate our people, help their own their kids, and provide for their own health needs, their retirement, and etc. It is immoral to continue on that course.

Anyone who does not even confront the real issues with this issue does no one a service.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If the idea is to detain asylum claimants then why not detain families together? That doesn't seem like an impossibility. It would be cheaper than building a wall.

 

[tango]

If the idea is to detain asylum claimants then why not detail families together? That doesn't seem like an impossibility. It would be cheaper than building a wall.

Detaining families together seems like an obvious option. Of course that assumes that a group including an adult or two and a couple of children are actually a family and not a child smuggling or trafficking ring.

 

[Lamb]

Isn't that ABDUCTION / KIDNAPPING ?

No. When parents are put in a facility for their illegal activity, children do not really belong there with them and have a better opportunity in most foster care homes.

I read that some of those "missing" children that is being reported were actually placed with the parents as sponsors or other relatives here in the US. Since they're illegals they refused to show up for their court dates and of course did not give an address of where they moved to. So they are "missing" because the families took them away.

 

[Arsenios]

If the idea is to detain asylum claimants then why not detain families together? That doesn't seem like an impossibility.

A very sensible idea...

It would be cheaper than building a wall.

The USSR built a wall to keep their own people from escaping their oppression...

Trump wants to build a wall to keep out those not invited to our country...

I think we can have a much more generous system of inviting people from the Americas to come and work and go back and forth, while building a wall to keep out the rest... Open borders will skin the USA alive and leave us unprotected from invasive and aggressive pestilences seeking our blood...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

If the idea is to detain asylum claimants...

Actually the ones being detained are those families entering illegally as a family unit...

They are not claiming asylum...

They simply want a better life to be provided to them...

For these, I would recommend a policy of learning English and joining the military for 4 years, leading to US citizenship... Which would pay for their families...

Arsenios

 

[psalms 91]

A very sensible idea...



The USSR built a wall to keep their own people from escaping their oppression...

Trump wants to build a wall to keep out those not invited to our country...

I think we can have a much more generous system of inviting people from the Americas to come and work and go back and forth, while building a wall to keep out the rest... Open borders will skin the USA alive and leave us unprotected from invasive and aggressive pestilences seeking our blood...

Arsenios

A collossal waste of money, it will not stop immigration. And yes the it is amazing how closely Russia and Trump seem to be, is it not. Arsenios I like your idea concerning people south of the border since the farmers and others need the migrants to work jobs that americans wont, but that probably makes entirely to much sense.

 

[Albion]

Actually the ones being detained are those families entering illegally as a family unit...

They are not claiming asylum...

They simply want a better life to be provided to them...

For these, I would recommend a policy of learning English and joining the military for 4 years, leading to US citizenship... Which would pay for their families...

Arsenios

Well then, we are going to have to detain them long enough to find out who they are, what the condition of their health and language skills is, etc. To do that opens the administration to being vilified by the political opposition as too expensive, inhumane, Nazi-like, and all of that nonsense.

 

[Albion]

And yes the it is amazing how closely Russia and Trump seem to be, is it not.

No. You are letting your imagination run away with you. They arent close at all. It would be much easier to make a case that the USA and China or North Korea are closer to Trump than Russia is--if facts mattered, that is.

 

[RichWh1]

Actually the ones being detained are those families entering illegally as a family unit...

They are not claiming asylum...

They simply want a better life to be provided to them...

For these, I would recommend a policy of learning English and joining the military for 4 years, leading to US citizenship... Which would pay for their families...

Arsenios

Actually they came seeking asylum from death and fleeing for their lives.
Seeking asylum is not a violation of any law on the books.




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[Albion]

Actually they came seeking asylum from death and fleeing for their lives.
Seeking asylum is not a violation of any law on the books.

"They" did NOT come seeking asylum. Asylum-seekers are in a different category and are handled in a different way.

 

[RichWh1]

"They" did NOT come seeking asylum. Asylum-seekers are in a different category and are handled in a different way.

And how do you know this???


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[Lamb]

Don't asylum seekers go through different channels to enter the country other than illegal means? There are ways to gain asylum into the US...the illegal way is not the way to do it.

I wonder how many countries on this planet have open boundaries where people can freely come and go as they please? Don't they all have some sort of border patrol? Passports or papers needed? Laws for legal entry and to live in their country?

 

[Arsenios]

No. You are letting your imagination run away with you. They arent close at all. It would be much easier to make a case that the USA and China or North Korea are closer to Trump than Russia is--if facts mattered, that is.

The walls point in opposite directions...
One imprisons, the other defends...
Take off your skin and see how fast you die...
We need border integrity...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Don't asylum seekers go through different channels to enter the country other than illegal means? There are ways to gain asylum into the US...the illegal way is not the way to do it.

I wonder how many countries on this planet have open boundaries where people can freely come and go as they please? Don't they all have some sort of border patrol? Passports or papers needed? Laws for legal entry and to live in their country?

The asylum seekers approach immigration officers...
The ones arrested are avoiding immigration officers...

Arsenios