Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[brightfame52]

Believeth on Him that Justifies the Ungodly !


Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The fact of the matter is this, ones believing [active] is the fruit of God's Justifying. Lets look at Acts 13:38-39

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

In Vs 39 lets understand, Now all that by Him [ His Cross Work] all that believe, which in the greek is a present active participle, which means "is believing" they are in a present state of believing [ see also Jn 3:16 believe there in greek] are Justified, which word is present passive indicative which means: are being Justified, So everyone believing is Justified, by this here Paul gives us the results of being Justified, for a person cannot be Justified by his faith which is active, while Justification before God is passive, so conclusion, mans active Faith or believing is the fruit of or result of being Justified ! God was Justifying them while Ungodly, not while they were believing. For when one is believing, he is not being ungodly but pleasing God !5

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Paul here means non imputation as in Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute or sin or lay sin to his charge.

Rom 8:33 says that one is Justified !

Now if God justifies the elect legally because of non imputation of sin, and Justification also means to be declared righteous; then it stands to reason that at the same hour of non imputation, there was imputation of Christ's Righteousness, since God must first see us as Righteous legally in order to declare us Righteous legally, which Righteousness is not our own Rom 4:6-8 !

For Christ's Righteousness is ever before God's Law and Justice on behalf of The chosen ones; and this Righteousness is objective Righteousness, for its based entirely from without the Elect, they are not even born again, its solely based upon the Perfect Work of Christ !

Note: Christ's Righteousness became the Elects Righteousness by imputation when their sins became His by imputation ! 5

 

[brightfame52]

What is application of Justification ?

Many today, unfaithful teachers, hath willfully mistaken Justification before God from ones sins by non imputation, and instead they were imputed to Christ, for non imputation automatically means imputation to Christ 2 Cor 5:19-21


19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now when we come to believe by faith that our sins were laid upon Christ, its not the same time as when our sins were laid upon Him. For God before we believed, had already imputed our sins on Christ, first He did in His Eternal Purpose Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain [In God's Purpose] from the foundation of the world.

Now if Christ was slain in God's Purpose from the foundation of the world, then it was that He was slain for the sins of those sins that had been imputed to Him from the foundation of the world ! Also see 1 Pet 1:20

Secondly, in time at the Cross of Christ when the Father did forsake Him because of our sins imputed.

Now faith is that which embraces the Truth of the Gospel of ones Salvation, if indeed it is God given Faith. The word of Truth informs us of a past transaction of imputation 2 Cor 5:19-21 which faith embraces, faith looks to things already a reality in the Mind of God and the Purpose of God, of when the transaction took place, whether in the compact agreement in the everlasting covenant and or at the actual in time event at the Cross when the Father for the first time forsook His Son for sin imputed;

It was then that God hath done His act of imputing our sin to Christ; However it is not until in time, and in our own personal temporal history, by the Grace of God, do we believe after having revealed to us, this eternal transaction Ps 25:14, which at believing has been made manifest, and becomes the application of the blessing to our consciousness and brings us experimental peace, knowing that God has been made peace with us by the Blood of His Cross ! Col 1:20

And, having made peace[for us] through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[MoreCoffee]

In rom 4:5 Paul wants us to believe in someone who "justifies the ungodly", i was just wondering who that is, exactly?

Makes you wonder why anyone would "justify" the ungodly?

 

[brightfame52]

The matter of the Elects Justification before God, it had nothing to do with anything they did, and to say or imply otherwise is a false gospel ! Now Paul did demonstrate how the elect or those Christ died for [ the same] are Justified or declared Righteous by a comparing of Adam and Jesus Christ, that is Adam's disobedience and Christ's obedience i.e Phil 2:8; Heb 5:8 ,now lets read Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so[likewise] by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now Paul teaches here in this verse and in this context that Adam's disobedience was the cause of the elect sinning, that very sin of Adam being charged or imputed to the Elect as they were in Union with him, and that also without any personal or actual sin of their own or their own volition or freewill, but yet in God's Reckoning the Elect became sinners !

Now the word so a adverb houtō(s) which means = in this manner, thus, so

The obedience of Christ [alone] in offering himself [Heb 10:10,14] a sacrifice [ 1 Cor 5:7] for their sins, and so by doing, giving satisfaction to God's law and Justice against their sins, in obedience to God's will and command Jn 10:17-18


17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Now it [ Christ's obedient Offering alone] became the cause of Righteousness imputed to them, as they were in Union with Christ, without any personal obedience of theirs, such as faith, repentance added to it, and by that, the Elect are made Righteous and Justified in God's Reckoning !

Now any teaching on this matter of the Elects Justification before God, that fails to adhere to this rule Paul hath demonstrated via Adam and Christ Headship, it is a false teaching ! To add an act of obedience by the person made Righteous or Justified, is a false teaching and condemned by God ! 5

 

[brightfame52]

Experimental Justification !

Experimental Justification is by Faith, of which is the application and execution of God's Eternal Decree from Everlasting, yes even the Everlasting Covenant. It is the effect of one's Eternal Justification [That which was made in Christ, foundational upon the Covenant made between the Father and the Son, which was Immanent in God]

Along with that was also in God's Eternal Purpose the decree to give evidence and to declare in the consciousness of the Elect, their Justification. This aspect would be performed by the Holy Spirit's Work, He being sent to Justify them in Time in the Name of the Lord 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

And so by the Work of the Spirit God does work faith in all the Eternally Justified, so causing them to believe in Jesus, and then its evidenced to themselves that they are Justified, and this is experimental Justification by Faith Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[brightfame52]

Justification leads to Justification !

All the persons that are Justified before God and His Justice solely by the death and or blood of Christ Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Each of them as an evidence of that, shall be Justified by faith before their own consciousness Rom 5:1, and so bringeth to pass the old saying of truth, the Just [made so by Christ's obedience unto death] shall live by faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now, the Justification by faith is not Justification before God, but its the fruit and effect of already having been made Righteous by the blood of Christ Rom 5:19b. Justification by faith is the fruit of one's New Birth, however Justification before God is the fruit and result of the blood of Christ and the imputation of His Righteousness, and the Non Imputation of their condemnation and sin.

Non of God's elect could have been Justified by faith, without #1 Justification before God based solely and entirely upon Christ's Blood, and #2 The New Birth, for without an spiritual birth, their is no fruit of faith that pleases God Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[brightfame52]

To be Redeemed means to be Justified !

That the Elect, those Christ died for are Justified before God before they believe, this is True in that they are redeemed before they believe, and they are redeemed solely by the Blood of Christ.

Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col 1:14

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now scripture says this in Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Those Christ died for were redeemed from the curse of the law, How ? By Being made a Curse for them, by His Death on the Tree 1 Pet 2:24a

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree,

Nothing the redeemed did redeemed them, but only what Christ did !

Now Paul says here Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Thats saying that they were Justified by His Death because it Redeemed them from the Curse of the Law !

They were Justified by Redemption!

In fact, the Gospel Call goes out to only those that have been Redeemed Notice Isa 44:22

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions,or forgiveness and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

In other words, their subjective returning to Him, Or Reconciliation Subjectively is premised on already having been redeemed and already having been forgiven of their Transgressions! 5

 

[Albion]

To be Redeemed means to be Justified !

That the Elect, those Christ died for are Justified before God before they believe, this is True in that they are redeemed before they believe, and they are redeemed solely by the Blood of Christ.

St. Paul insists that "Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:38-39). Also, that "we have been justified through faith" (Romans 5:1).

 

[brightfame52]

St. Paul insists that "Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:38-39). Also, that "we have been justified through faith" (Romans 5:1).

I know what those verses say.

 

[Albion]

I know what those verses say.

So does everyone else. It was what you think they say that I was interested in.

I thought that you might be able to explain the apparent contradiction in your several posts.

 

[1689Dave]

Did someone mention Faith?

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

Whence cometh it? From the Holy Spirit. It also says: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Hebrews 12:2 (KJV 1900)

Does God determine who has faith? “For it has been granted to you not only to believe in Christ but also to suffer for him,” (Philippians 1:29)

Is faith a work of the flesh? Nay, it is of God's Grace only: “And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace,” Acts 18:27 (NASB95) “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:29 (KJV 1900)

“They said therefore unto him, ‘What may we do that we may work the works of God?’ Jesus answered and said to them, ‘This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.’” John 6:28–29 (YLT)

 

[brightfame52]

So does everyone else. It was what you think they say that I was interested in.

I thought that you might be able to explain the apparent contradiction in your several posts.

I dont see any contradiction, and I have plenty of posts you can read of what I have explained on this matter in this very thread. Apparently you not really interested in my explanation since thats what I have been doing since I joined this discussion.

 

[Albion]

I dont see any contradiction....

If referring you to it and quoting what you wrote can't help, I'll just say it.

Contrary to what you wrote, no one is justified in the absence of Faith. Not, that is, in the sense in which you are using the word, which appears to be identical to or interchangeable with redeemed.

 

[brightfame52]

If referring you to it and quoting what you wrote can't help, I'll just say it.

Contrary to what you wrote, no one is justified in the absence of Faith.

I disagree, and I have been explaining why in this thread for a while , a long while

 

[brightfame52]

Justification and Union with Christ !

In order to ever be Justified by Faith in time, there must have been a Pre existing Union with Christ before Faith in order to faith, in fact this Union needed to exist with Christ ever before He could die for our sins: For the scripture doeth indicate that those Justified by Christ's Righteousness and Obedience, was due to the fact that they had a Oneness with Him as His Body, a legal Oneness and a Mystical Oneness, and by this Mystical Union or Oneness, all for whom He died were members of His Body of which He is the Saviour of Eph 5:23,30

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Also they were members of His Flesh and Blood [Mystically] Heb 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

This in that it was them that He specifically Identified with in Flesh and Blood !

They are the Body of Christ 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

And that [His Body] even before they become believers, which is indicated that He is the Saviour of The Body Eph 5:23 and also here Col 1:24

24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Paul here even though writing believers in Colosse at the time, did remind them of His present afflictions he must endure, for the Gospel's Sake in reaching with the Gospel the unconverted portion of Christ's Body, that is the Church; for this is very similar to his words to Timothy 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's or His Body's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

For it is only in view of this Union Christ had with His Mystical Body that their sins could legally be charged to Him, simply because they are the sins of His Body, and so God is Just in not imputing the Body's sins unto them 2 Cor 5:19, because He hath charged them to their Head! And also the Head's Righteousness is also freely imputed to His Body. Now as His Mystical Body, we are crucified with Him Gal 2:20, are dead with Him Rom 6:8 are risen with Him Eph 2:6, and we are Newly Created in Him Eph 2:10; However, none of this can be our reality and experience except it be through that Eternal Mystical Union we had in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us [His Body the Church] in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5

 

[brightfame52]

Any and everyone Christ died for [which was not for all without exception] must be by God Justified ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Now this is True because Christ by His Redemptive Blood has paid for their sins, and by this has fulfilled God's Law and Justice and Holy demands upon them. For in His Death of the Cross, it is written this Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Now listen, all legal guilt by our law breaking and sin has been blotted out of the record books as these here were not Rev 20:12

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

All that could ever be written against them for their guilt and condemnation and to occasion God's Wrath, was taken out of the Way, having been nailed to the Cross of Christ; and so because God is just, He must justify freely [free from sin], all for whom Christ died, and that solely upon the basis of redemption in His Blood, and not for their faith or works or repentance! 5

 

[brightfame52]

Remission of sin

Lk 1:77

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Remission of sin, which is also forgiveness of sins, is an aspect of Justification, and remission of sin is not granted upon ones believing or act of faith or act of repentance, but it is accomplished for all whom Christ died, based upon His Blood Satisfaction, which is testified to by the Holy Ghost in Two Places Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And Heb 10:14-18

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Now understand this, the perfection spoken of in Vs 14, it does include the forgiveness of all our sins, which also means Justification from all things as Per Acts 13:39

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

And the word for ever back in Heb 10:14, doeth ensure Justification or forgiveness or remission of all sin the sin of us, past, present and future; and this was all accomplished by the single offering of Christ !

 

[Albion]

I disagree, and I have been explaining why in this thread for a while , a long while

Well, obviously you disagree. But if the explanation is incorrect, what's gained by offering it?

 

[Josiah]

St. Paul insists that "Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:38-39). Also, that "we have been justified through faith" (Romans 5:1).

SO, personal justification is the result of the CROSS + FAITH.
BOTH are necessary for personal justification.
The Cross supplies it... personal faith apprehends it.

So why aren't all personally justified? Is it because the Bible is wrong when it so often, so clearly, so obviously, verbatim, in black-and-white words that my four year old can read and understand, wrong in all those Scriptures that say Jesus died for all people? No. It just means the Bible is right when it so often, so clearly, so obviously, verbatim in black-and-white words my four year old can read and understand, that faith is also necessary, those without faith do not have personal justification. The first without the second - no personal justification. The second without the first - no personal justification. It's not either/or, it's both/and.

The problem is some critics of this view are radical Pelagians, who believe that if FAITH is involved, that makes personal justification synergistic since they hold that the only faith can exist is if the unregenerate, fallen, atheistic enemy of God creates it and gives it to himself. But for us who accept the historic Christian faith, who accept what the Bible says instead of Peligius, there's no problem with CROSS + FAITH since both are the work and gift of God, it just involves two things - the Cross and Faith. And while the Bible says the Cross is given to all, it also indicates that faith is not given for all.




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