WORTHY

[Arsenios]

Man, I'd like to sit one day with you and discuss these things with our Bibles open and the Holy Spirit in our midst.
I've done that several times over the years: met folks in person that I had met on the internet that had questions about things I've shared. In my travels around this nation, I've had fellowship with the saints from Washington to Indiana to PA; from SoCal (where I live) to Kansas, to Texas. All folks like you, whom I had come in contact with in a Bible Study Group or Christian Forum online.

I do believe that we would probably agree on many things; as well as glean from one another even deeper Truth as we conversed about the thing that God is showing us and leading us into as we submit to Him and partake of the substance of Christ.

Peace & Blessings to you, brother, as you walk with Jesus.
Michael

Have you explored the difference between the two Salvations?

There is Salvation in the Old Testament...

And...

There is Salvation in the New Testament...

How are they the same?

How do they differ?

Menno thinks there is no difference between them...
Because for him, Baptism is BY the Holy Spirit...
And the Holy Spirit is found in the Old Testament...
Have you taken this look?


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

No, he doesn't. That's your dogma is false and based on tradition with no biblical support.

Acts 2:38 says:
And Peter said to them:
"Repent and be Baptized...
For the forgiveness of your sins."

Acts 2:38 is "no biblical support"???

C'mon, Menno!

Is says right there in the Bible that Baptism is for the forgiveness of your sins...
And is commands them to BE Baptized...
Baptism is by Peter in water, yes??

Any OTHER questions??


Arsenios

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

No, he doesn't. That's your dogma is false and based on tradition with no biblical support.

I've given you the Biblical support, I've shown you where Peter said what you deny he said. You deny God His power and means of grace, all because YOU don't get it. Get over yourself. YOU don't trump what God has plainly taught in Scripture.

 

[MennoSota]

Acts 2:38 says:
And Peter said to them:
"Repent and be Baptized...
For the forgiveness of your sins."

Acts 2:38 is "no biblical support"???

C'mon, Menno!

Is says right there in the Bible that Baptism is for the forgiveness of your sins...
And is commands them to BE Baptized...
Baptism is by Peter in water, yes??

Any OTHER questions??


Arsenios

Here is what it says. (You twist what God says by missing the whole.)

Acts 2:36-41

Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart,
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
And Peter said to them, “Repent
and
be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins,
and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
So those who received his word
were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Note that those who received Peter's word were cut to the heart...by God's Spirit. About 3000 were adopted when God cut to their heart. At that very moment God's grace shined through to those 3000.
What did they do?
They repented and then declared to the Jewish community that they had been immersed into Jesus by being water baptized.
Just as God promises all his elect..."if you confess your sins, he is faithful and just to forgive you your sins." (1 John 1:9) That promise of forgiveness is NOT for the non-elect. They cannot repent...for they have never been cut to the heart. God has never adopted them. God has not extended them grace.
Only those whom God had already adopted were baptized. The baptism did not save them. It was not a means of grace.
Not ONE place in all of scripture will you ever see God saying that baptism, communion or any of the man-made sacraments are "a means of grace." Your church makes it up as dogma with no biblical support.

 

[MennoSota]

I've given you the Biblical support, I've shown you where Peter said what you deny he said. You deny God His power and means of grace, all because YOU don't get it. Get over yourself. YOU don't trump what God has plainly taught in Scripture.

Not at all. I have shown the entire passage and you are wrong... utterly wrong.
The concept of baptism and communion being a means of grace is a non-biblical dogma taught you by your church, not by scripture.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

Not at all. I have shown the entire passage and you are wrong... utterly wrong.
The concept of baptism and communion being a means of grace is a non-biblical dogma taught you by your church, not by scripture.

Okay, you sit there and say" nuh-uh" like a little kid all you like. It doesn't change what Scripture says which is that baptism forgives sins. It's still right there for all to see even when you start quoting at Acts 2:36. I'm not doing a 50-page back and forth on this with you. I'm not Josiah, I don't have that kind of patience. Scripture teaches that Baptism forgives sins and you say that it doesn't. Hmmm, whom should I trust here?

 

[MennoSota]

Okay, you sit there and say" nuh-uh" like a little kid all you like. It doesn't change what Scripture says which is that baptism forgives sins. It's still right there for all to see even when you start quoting at Acts 2:36. I'm not doing a 50-page back and forth on this with you. I'm not Josiah, I don't have that kind of patience. Scripture teaches that Baptism forgives sins and you say that it doesn't. Hmmm, whom should I trust here?

It doesn't say baptism forgives sins. It says "Repent and*be baptized every one of you*in the name of Jesus Christ*for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive*the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Only a person who is already adopted by God and made a new person in Christ can repent, be baptized and have their sins forgiven.
You aren't saved by repenting and being baptized. You repent and are baptized because God has already saved you. Person's, dead in their trespasses and sins, cannot repent. They must first be made alive in Christ...then they will repent and be baptized.
Here is when God saved them:
"Now when*they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers,*what shall we do?"
God changed their heart and made them alive in Christ. They then ask "what shall we do?"

 

[Arsenios]

It doesn't say baptism forgives sins.

It says "...be baptized... (every one of you*in the name of Jesus Christ) for the forgiveness of your sins

That pretty much says it all...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

That pretty much says it all...


Arsenios

Of course you ignore everything else in the passage to your discredit. Please stop with your telescopic reading of scripture, which ignores all the text around that proves you wrong. Your prooftexting out of context leads you to heresy.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

I can see it makes you mad that Baptism forgives sins. That's sad.

 

[Arsenios]

Acts 2:36-41
"Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that
God has made Him both Lord and Christ,
this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart,
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles,
“Brothers, what shall we do?”
And Peter said to them,
“Repent and be baptized
every one of you
in the Name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins,
and
you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is for you and for your children
and for all who are far off,
everyone whom the Lord our God
calls to himself.”
And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
So those who received his word
were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Here is what it says. (You twist what God says by missing the whole.)

Acts 2:36-41

Note that those who received Peter's word were cut to the heart...by God's Spirit.

Scripture does not say that...

It says that the House of Israel was cut to the heart...

About 3000 were adopted when God cut to their heart.

It says about 3000 of those cut to the heart received Peter's word...

At that very moment God's grace shined through to those 3000.

Yes...

What did they do?

They obeyed Peter's word which they received...

They repented

Indeed they did, and they were Baptized into Christ and received the Gift of the Holy Spirit...

and then declared to the Jewish community that they had been immersed into Jesus by being water baptized.

Menno, you cannot invent the Bible like this...

the Bible does not state what your words do...

Just as God promises all his elect..."if you confess your sins, he is faithful and just to forgive you your sins." (1 John 1:9) That promise of forgiveness is NOT for the non-elect. They cannot repent...for they have never been cut to the heart. God has never adopted them. God has not extended them grace.
Only those whom God had already adopted were baptized. The baptism did not save them. It was not a means of grace.
Not ONE place in all of scripture will you ever see God saying that baptism, communion or any of the man-made sacraments are "a means of grace." Your church makes it up as dogma with no biblical support.

You do not get to re-write the Bible Menno...

Forgive me...


Arsenios

 

[Michael]

In case we forgot what this thread was about...

We began by looking at the Biblical exhortations for the saints to "walk worthy" of their calling, of the Gospel, of the Kingdom, of Christ and of God. (Matt 10:37-38, Eph 4:1, Phil 1:27, Col 1:10, 1Thess 2:12, 2Thess 1:5, 2Thess 1:11, Rev 3:4)

Many traditions have crept into the churches over the centuries, but here we stick by only what the Scripture declares.

May we be found worthy in that day to "walk with Him in white" and receive all the promises of God.

Peace & Blessings to all, as we "encourage one another daily" and "put off our old man" and the contention, envy, and slander that accompanies the carnal nature.

https://youtu.be/TjY7Y0ryRkc

 

[MennoSota]

I can see it makes you mad that Baptism forgives sins. That's sad.

False teaching, such as what you teach, makes me mad. Your teaching points people to hell rather than heaven.
Only God can forgive. Baptism does not forgive sins.
The Christian repents and is baptized. The Christian has his/her sins forgiven.
The unsaved person is still dead in their trespasses and sins. They can neither repent, nor be baptized, nor be forgiven of their sins.

 

[MennoSota]

Acts 2:36-41
"Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that
God has made Him both Lord and Christ,
this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart,
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles,
“Brothers, what shall we do?”
And Peter said to them,
“Repent and be baptized
every one of you
in the Name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins,
and
you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is for you and for your children
and for all who are far off,
everyone whom the Lord our God
calls to himself.”
And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
So those who received his word
were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Here is what it says. (You twist what God says by missing the whole.)

Acts 2:36-41



Scripture does not say that...

It says that the House of Israel was cut to the heart...



It says about 3000 of those cut to the heart received Peter's word...



Yes...



They obeyed Peter's word which they received...



Indeed they did, and they were Baptized into Christ and received the Gift of the Holy Spirit...



Menno, you cannot invent the Bible like this...

the Bible does not state what your words do...



You do not get to re-write the Bible Menno...

Forgive me...


Arsenios

Arsenios, I am the one bringing in all of scripture, rather than a sentence, which you prooftext out of context.
You do a terrible job of interpretation, Arsenios. I get to show you how bad of a job you are doing.

 

[Michael]

False teaching, such as what you teach, makes me mad. Your teaching points people to hell rather than heaven.
Only God can forgive. Baptism does not forgive sins.
The Christian repents and is baptized. The Christian has his/her sins forgiven.
The unsaved person is still dead in their trespasses and sins. They can neither repent, nor be baptized, nor be forgiven of their sins.

Those who have been "saved" yet remain in their sins and carnal behavior are "dead in their sins" as well. "The wages of sin is death" is a warning to "Christians" in Paul's letter.

A professed "believer" who does not "walk worthy" of their calling will not receive an "abundant entrance into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (1Pet 1:10-11)

And as we've been studying in the Biblical Repentance thread, to repent means to actually "turn away" from our sins and cease doing them, not merely change our way of thinking about them.

Let's lay aside our "carnal nature" and behavior which will "not inherit the Kingdom of God" and rather "let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds." (Heb 10:24 NIV)

Peace & Blessings to all who walk with Jesus.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

False teaching, such as what you teach, makes me mad. Your teaching points people to hell rather than heaven.
Only God can forgive. Baptism does not forgive sins.
The Christian repents and is baptized. The Christian has his/her sins forgiven.
The unsaved person is still dead in their trespasses and sins. They can neither repent, nor be baptized, nor be forgiven of their sins.

It's clear that you don't even know what Baptism is. It is God's Word connected to the physical element of water. God's Word does deliver forgiveness of sins, and since God's Word is connected to the water, Baptism does forgive sins. What I teach is what is written in the Scriptures as I have shown. You haven't shown anything that contradicts what I say. Acts 2:36 does not make Acts 2:38-2:39 invalid.

 

[Michael]

Just a little reminder from the Apostle Paul for us all here on this forum -

"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." - Gal 5:19-26 ESV

Remember, saints, we are "surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, so let us lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus..." - Heb 12:1-2

May the fruit of the Spirit be evident in our lives, that God and man can see we are True disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen.

 

[MennoSota]

It's clear that you don't even know what Baptism is. It is God's Word connected to the physical element of water. God's Word does deliver forgiveness of sins, and since God's Word is connected to the water, Baptism does forgive sins. What I teach is what is written in the Scriptures as I have shown. You haven't shown anything that contradicts what I say. Acts 2:36 does not make Acts 2:38-2:39 invalid.

I know what baptism is. I know that the Bible never says it is a means of grace. I know that the Bible never says that baptism forgives sins. I know that you have created a mystical, magical element to water baptism that is not once declared or implied in scripture.

I have shown you the entire passage in Acts 2 so you could see where you went wrong. I cannot assist you if you refuse to accept the entire passage and instead choose to misread one sentence.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

I know what baptism is. I know that the Bible never says it is a means of grace. I know that the Bible never says that baptism forgives sins. I know that you have created a mystical, magical element to water baptism that is not once declared or implied in scripture.

I have shown you the entire passage in Acts 2 so you could see where you went wrong. I cannot assist you if you refuse to accept the entire passage and instead choose to misread one sentence.

Menno, you don't know what the Bible says about Baptism, that is clear. Acts 2:38-39 clearly says that Baptism forgives sins. I've told you before that Acts 2:36-37 doesn't weaken or destroy Acts 2:38-39.

You've been shown this multiple times yet still refuse to acknowledge what is plainly written on the page. The "magical, mystical element" was not created by me. It was created by God when He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Why invoke the Trinity in Baptism, if it is all symbolic and does not forgive sins? Why baptize anyone at all if it doesn't do anything? If it's just a display or performance so others can see that YOU are saved?

You smugly deny the forgiveness of sins to others because you don't comprehend how God in all His power, can combine His forgiveness with physical elements, and then have the audacity to say to me and others that our teachings are sending people to hell. It's absolutely shameful. In closing, Baptism and Communion forigive sins regardless of what you believe and how you wish to limit God's grace and love.

 

[RichWh1]

That pretty much says it all...


Arsenios

I see you took Scripture out of context to make your own pretext.
That’s what the cults do.
We need to read and interpret the Bible in context!!


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