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Arsenios

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Acceptance of the Bible as Gods word. It is not more complicated than that. And it is hardly an either-or proposition (John vs Christ)..

Exactly so - Trying to pit John the Baptist against Christ is what dividers of the Faith specialize in...

Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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John's ministry is the beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
The Gospel of Jesus Christ begins with repentance unto Salvation...
Why do you pick and choose only the words that you want the Bible to say?
We are Called by God to Repentance...
THEN we are Justified BY God...
THEN we are Glorified BY God...

Plain as day...

You make the Call of God to Repentance of no effect...
Why then is it in all the Gospels?
Why are you avoiding God's Word?

The Gospel of Christ is to be taken from the Gospels...
It is not to be taken from the Pastoral Epistles...
These Epistles address local stumbling blocks...
They are not the Gospels of Christ...
The Gospels are the Gospels of Christ...
The Epistles are not the Gospels...

Arsenios
John's ministry points toward the Messiah and the good news provided by Messiah. It is not the good news itself. You are trying to shove the law into God's grace and you can't make it fit.
We see in Acts that some men were attempting to live under John the Baptist teaching. The apostles had to correct them and point them toward Jesus who is the good news.
It is time you let the old covenant die, Arsenios.
 

MennoSota

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The Gospel tells us to make straight the Way of the Lord...
To make level the road to Salvation...
To get ourselves involved in our preparation for God...
"For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"

Why do you doubt God's word in this?

Arsenios
No. John the Baptist told Israel to make straight the way of the Lord.
The gospel says: "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. The gospel says "I came that I might give you life." The gospel says: "Behold I am with you enen to the end of the age."
Arsenios, you are not preaching the Gospel of Christ. You are preaching the old covenant of John the Baptist.
 

MennoSota

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Acceptance of the Bible as Gods word. It is not more complicated than that. And it is hardly an either-or proposition (John vs Christ)..
The gospel is not John the Baptists teaching. He pointed toward the Gospel, but he did not teach it.
 

MennoSota

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That is under Christ, it may have been John the Baptists message but it is also ours as Christ will return and until that time we are charged to carry the gospel to all the world. We can not pick and choose it is all for our edification Old as well as New John the Baptist and Christ.
JTB called Israel, under the old covenant, to repentance...not to the gospel of salvation. This is why none of John's disciples were saved. They had not received the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Arsenios is conflating two separate messages and trying to make them the same. Such an attempt causes the gospel of Christ to be brought down below its station.
 

psalms 91

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JTB called Israel, under the old covenant, to repentance...not to the gospel of salvation. This is why none of John's disciples were saved. They had not received the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Arsenios is conflating two separate messages and trying to make them the same. Such an attempt causes the gospel of Christ to be brought down below its station.
While what you say is true it is also an example of evangelism and is true today just as it was then
 

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The gospel is not John the Baptists teaching. He pointed toward the Gospel, but he did not teach it.

Nonsense. You do not get to pick and choose which part of God's word you will accept--and everything you are referring to concerning John you are taking from the Bible.
 

MennoSota

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While what you say is true it is also an example of evangelism and is true today just as it was then
John's ministry was specific to his day when he called out to Israel that the Messiah had come and they should follow Messiah.
We can point to Jesus, like John did, but we are not preaching old covenant obedience under the law like John preached. We are preaching grace under the new covenant.
We need to understand that John's teaching was not and is not the gospel. It only pointed to the one who is the gospel.
 

MennoSota

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Nonsense. You do not get to pick and choose which part of God's word you will accept--and everything you are referring to concerning John you are taking from the Bible.
No one is saying that we pick what to accept.
I am specifically saying that John the Baptist had a very specific ministry for the day he lived, just like Elijah had a specific ministry for his day. I am saying that we must keep the words of John in context of the ministry and role John was given. I am saying John's message is not and was not the gospel.
 

psalms 91

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John's ministry was specific to his day when he called out to Israel that the Messiah had come and they should follow Messiah.
We can point to Jesus, like John did, but we are not preaching old covenant obedience under the law like John preached. We are preaching grace under the new covenant.
We need to understand that John's teaching was not and is not the gospel. It only pointed to the one who is the gospel.
John preached repentance which is part of Salvation, confession which also is and baptism which is a part as well. What should we throw out just because it is Old Testament?
 

MennoSota

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John preached repentance which is part of Salvation, confession which also is and baptism which is a part as well. What should we throw out just because it is Old Testament?
Repentance, confession and baptism are all effects of the cause. The cause being God making a person alive in Christ (ie salvation).
John's message was never repentance unto salvation. It was repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. The King was in the midst of Israel and people were oblivious.
I'm shocked that people are preaching a synergistic, works message and calling it the gospel. It isn't the gospel at all. It is an attempt to tear God down and raise men up. It deserves condemnation for its falseness.
 

psalms 91

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Repentance, confession and baptism are all effects of the cause. The cause being God making a person alive in Christ (ie salvation).
John's message was never repentance unto salvation. It was repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. The King was in the midst of Israel and people were oblivious.
I'm shocked that people are preaching a synergistic, works message and calling it the gospel. It isn't the gospel at all. It is an attempt to tear God down and raise men up. It deserves condemnation for its falseness.
Funny I would say that of your belief, we will never agree and that is fine but taking pot shots at one another is not cool. To me once saved always saved which is what your election actually comes down to to me is a doctrine that leads men to hell but as I say we will never agree
 

Arsenios

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John's message was never repentance unto salvation.
It was repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand.

Would you please explain the difference as you understand it between entry into the Kingdom of God and Salvation?
Do you know how many references to the Kingdom of God are made in the Gospels?

We teach that Salvation in Christ is ALL ABOUT entry into the Kingdom of God...

What do YOU teach?

Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Funny I would say that of your belief, we will never agree and that is fine but taking pot shots at one another is not cool. To me once saved always saved which is what your election actually comes down to to me is a doctrine that leads men to hell but as I say we will never agree
I know you struggle with God's Sovereignty. God can open your eyes to His grace apart from works. He has a lifetime to do so.
I suspect your "never" will be shorter than you imagine.
 

MennoSota

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Would you please explain the difference as you understand it between entry into the Kingdom of God and Salvation?
Do you know how many references to the Kingdom of God are made in the Gospels?

We teach that Salvation in Christ is ALL ABOUT entry into the Kingdom of God...

What do YOU teach?

Arsenios
It's quite simple. God adopts us. We are therefore members of God's Kingdom rather than the kingdom of darkness.
Has God adopted you, Arsenios?
 

Arsenios

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It's quite simple. God adopts us. We are therefore members of God's Kingdom rather than the kingdom of darkness.
Has God adopted you, Arsenios?

Oh yes, after many years of profound repentance unto blood...

Heb 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

How 'bout you?

Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Oh yes, after many years of profound repentance unto blood...

Heb 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

How 'bout you?

Arsenios
Do you mean, have pagans attempted to kill me and beat me up because of the gospel? Thankfully not yet.
Who tried to kill you, Arsenios? Or are you completely butchering the verse so that you can flagellate yourself and hopefully make God happy with your mutilation of the flesh?
You know...the prophets of Baal mutilated themselves as well...
 

Arsenios

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Do you mean, have pagans attempted to kill me and beat me up because of the gospel? Thankfully not yet.
Who tried to kill you, Arsenios? Or are you completely butchering the verse so that you can flagellate yourself and hopefully make God happy with your mutilation of the flesh?
You know...the prophets of Baal mutilated themselves as well...

How do you understand that text?


Heb 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Do you believe the Gospel teaching regarding martyrdom?

Interpret the text, Menno...

If you can...


Arsenios


Hint: Blood = Life
 
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