Salvation

[MoreCoffee]

Jesus is with all of us at lerast in the fact He loves all and I thinkj we will be judged by our heart towards those less fortunate or thrown away by society, if we are to be moere Christlike then this should be second nature to us to care for the poor and the scik and widow, it should not be second nature to stand there and debate why or how they got that way or do they deserve help, it should be our nature to show the love of Christt even to thiose who dont deserve it

Amen to that. What we do ought to come from being like Jesus Christ and the theology can be set aside if we live as Jesus' people following him.

 

[Lamb]

Absolutely correct...

God is the Judge...`

Man is the one being judged...

What man does MATTERS for or against his Salvation by the Judge...

Some Lutherans here seem to think that human praxis means nothing to one's Salvation...

We will be judged according to what we do...

Not according to what God does...

Arsenios

Lutherans believe we are covered by Jesus and His righteousness. Our judgment concerning how we treated others is based upon His righteousness therefore. In other words, any sin we commit by not doing or doing (toward our neighbor) is atoned for and God has already judged it on the cross where Jesus was nailed.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lutherans believe we are covered by Jesus and His righteousness. Our judgment concerning how we treated others is based upon His righteousness therefore. In other words, any sin we commit by not doing or doing (toward our neighbor) is atoned for and God has already judged it on the cross where Jesus was nailed.

That is what your religion teaches but it is not what Jesus said about the last judgement in Matthew 25 nor, as far as I can tell, in any other passage anywhere in the holy scriptures.

 

[Lamb]

That is what your religion teaches but it is not what Jesus said about the last judgement in Matthew 25 nor, as far as I can tell, in any other passage anywhere in the holy scriptures.

Yes, my religion is Christianity and it teaches that all our sins are forgiven. :thumbsup:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, my religion is Christianity and it teaches that all our sins are forgiven. :thumbsup:

Do you have any observations to make about Matthew 25 and the last judgement?

 

[Albion]

Amen to that. What we do ought to come from being like Jesus Christ and the theology can be set aside if we live as Jesus' people following him.

Then, according to your view as expressed here, the claim of any particular denomination, cult, or communion to being a *one true church* to the exclusion of all others is nonsense and a perversion of the true faith.

 

[psalms 91]

Then, according to your view as expressed here, the claim of any particular denomination, cult, or communion to being a *one true church* to the exclusion of all others is nonsense and a perversion of the true faith.

If every person was Christlike and acting that way 100 per cent of the time then I agree with MC. That cuts across all our predijudces and beliefs that may be wrong. Demonstarting the love of Christ towards all and by all is what Christianity is and should be about. The difference between what is said in the bible and the actions and words of believers is a part of why so many are put off by Christianity

 

[Albion]

If every person was Christlike and acting that way 100 per cent of the time then I agree with MC.

You mean that you agree with what he wrote. He doesn't believe it himself.

That's obvious, considering his own religious affiliation.

 

[psalms 91]

You mean that you agree with what he wrote. He doesn't believe it himself.

That's obvious, considering his own religious affiliation.

I believe that denoms would not matter any more than they did when Jesus walked the earth, it is how we portrsay Christ by our words and acrtions. That speaks louder than any doctrine or denomination

 

[MennoSota]

Gotta believe to be saved, believing in Jesus Christ is the work that God wants people to do.

Apparently the mentally disabled cannot be saved in your world...

 

[Arsenios]

For Lutherans salvation has no if from God which is why we look to Him solely instead of self.

Then Lutherans believe in universal Salvation...

Because:

God wills that all should be saved...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

One such Scripture is Ephesians 2:8


Also see 1 Corinthians 2:14 Ephesians 2:8-9 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 6:11





.

Please cite the Scriptural words which you think make your point...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Lutherans believe we are covered by Jesus and His righteousness. Our judgment concerning how we treated others is based upon His righteousness therefore. In other words, any sin we commit by not doing or doing (toward our neighbor) is atoned for and God has already judged it on the cross where Jesus was nailed.

Will we be judged by God according to what we do?

OR...

Will we be judged by God according to what God does?

Arsenios

ps -
You DO agree, do you not, that
We WILL ALL be judged by God?
All unto resurrection...
Some unto Salvation...
Some unto Perdition...
????

 

[Arsenios]

The claim of any particular denomination, cult, or communion
to being a *One True Church*
to the exclusion of all others
is nonsense
and a perversion of the true faith.

The Easteren Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church...

We make absolutely NO CLAIM to EXCLUDE ANY others...
EXCEPT...
Those from within whom we have expelled and anathematized...

Christ Himself is in charge of His Body, and not ANY of the created members of His Body...

Therefore, Albion, my Brother - Your exclusionary clause is for us a straw man...

We make no pretense of Ekklesiastical Superiority over Christ's Body...

Nor of exclusionary membership, even though we have closed Communion...

We are but Servants of the Most High God...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Apparently the mentally disabled cannot be saved in your world...

Ya jes' never know...

God can be sneaky like that...

I mean, some are saved...

For most of "them", just as for most of "us",
disabilities are simply God's Mercy toward us...

The rest of us,
(along with those we like to call "the mentally disabled",)
just schlepp our way along through the muck...


Arsenios

 

[Albion]

The Easteren Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church...

We make absolutely NO CLAIM to EXCLUDE ANY others...
EXCEPT...
Those from within whom we have expelled and anathematized...

Christ Himself is in charge of His Body, and not ANY members of His Body...

Therefore, Albion, my Brother - Your exclusionary clause is for us a straw man...

We make no pretense of Ekklesiastical Superiority over Christ's Body...

We are but Servants of the Most High God...


Arsenios

Wonderful. Not only was I not addressing you, but I also said nothing about your church.:noway: If you feel squeaminsh about its pretentions, that is a problem that has nothing to do with my post.




.

 

[Josiah]

Please cite the Scriptural words which you think make your point...

One such Scripture is Ephesians 2:8. Also see 1 Corinthians 2:14 Ephesians 2:8-9 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 6:11

 

[Josiah]

Will we be judged by God according to what we do?

OR...

Will we be judged by God according to what God does?

For Justification, it depends on whether you are trusting yourself, directing God's attention to YOU.... or trusting in Christ, directing God's attention to Jesus. In other words, in your heart, is there faith in YOU and what is revealed in the mirror or is there faith in Christ and what is revealed on the Cross? IF you desire God to consider YOU the savior of YOU - then yup, it depends on you. IF you desire God to consider JESUS the SAVIOR of you, then yup, it depends on Christ.

Which is why I keep asking you: WHO is the Savior? You or Jesus? Yes, we all know, Satan will work HARD, Satan will work OVERTIME, Satan will be as persuasive as he can be to convince you this is amazingly complicated and complex.... to make Christ as small as possible and self as big as possible.... to get you to look away from the Cross and to look more in the mirror... because if Justification is based on YOU (even 0.0000000000000001%) then he has you.



Now... changing topics.... going to a topic DIFFERENT than the one of this thread.... addressing what those Justified are to do.... addressing what those WITH the divine GIFTS of spiritual life, of faith, of the Holy Spirit, of Justification.... addressing what Christians are to do.... then it depends on what WE do (empowered and directed by the Holy Spirit which the Justified have). Some Protestants even believe there are very different levels of honor in heaven, and indeed, that we are "rewarded" for what WE do in Sanctification. But of course, all this is a whole other enchilada for another day and thread. Protestants believe that Jesus is the Savior. Period. Ain't rocket science, ain't complicated. Of course, we were excommunicated for believing that and the Western Church split over that point - as you know, we entirely agreed on Sanctification (which both sides stressed as strongly as they could).

You DO agree, do you not, that we WILL ALL be judged by God?
All unto resurrection...
Some to Salvation...
Some to Perdition...

????

Yes. Those who claim self will be sent to hell because "NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE" "If ANYONE claims to be without sin, he is a LIAR." But those whose faith is directed to the Cross rather than the mirror, those who claim Christ as the Savior rather than self as the one who needs no Savior... those with faith in Christ as THE SAVIOR, heaven awaits them.

Of course, there will also be a judgement of CHRISTIANS but none will be transferred to Hell because they have missed the mark of absolute perfection 100% of the time (if that were the case, we'd all be transfered to hell immediately upon going to heaven.... and Jesus would be worthless).



- Josiah



.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

For Lutherans salvation has no if from God which is why we look to Him solely instead of self.

Interesting thread. Our Little Lamb is quite right, of course, when she points out that all of our Salvation is God's gift to us, through our Savior, Jesus Christ and Him alone. Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our Faith and to Him alone goes all the glory and credit for it. Why are we simply absolved in the sacrament of Confession and Absolution, rather than given a penance to do first? Our salvation is unconditional. We receive forgiveness from God as His gift to us. The Lord did all the work that was necessary to do, for us ( individually as well as corporately) on the Cross. When Jesus said " it is finished," it was finished. The Holy Spirit Who dwells in us ( together with the Father and the Son) graciously assures us of our salvation in He Who loved us so much that He did die for us.. that we might live forever in Him. Our faith is a monergistic one.. God did all the work. Man has absolutely nothing in himself that can contribute to his salvation. Indeed, our concupiscence renders us inherent enemies of God. Baptismal regeneration begins the new life of faith and drowns the Old Adam within us, although by our own choice we may abandon that grace, drive the Holy Spirit from us and leave ourselves trebly worthy of damnation. Of course, we who fall may call once again call upon God, Who will raise us up and dwell within us, letting us utilize our thoroughly undeserved forgiveness by hearing the Word and partaking in the Sacraments. We return to our Holy Baptism when the Holy Spirit leads us to repentance and faith. We walk in faith as long as the Lord graces us to do. Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Interesting thread. Our Little Lamb is quite right, of course, when she points out that all of our Salvation is God's gift to us, through our Savior, Jesus Christ and Him alone. Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our Faith and to Him alone goes all the glory and credit for it. Why are we simply absolved in the sacrament of Confession and Absolution, rather than given a penance to do first? Our salvation is unconditional. We receive forgiveness from God as His gift to us. The Lord did all the work that was necessary to do, for us ( individually as well as corporately) on the Cross. When Jesus said " it is finished," it was finished. The Holy Spirit Who dwells in us ( together with the Father and the Son) graciously assures us of our salvation in He Who loved us so much that He did die for us.. that we might live forever in Him. Our faith is a monergistic one.. God did all the work. Man has absolutely nothing in himself that can contribute to his salvation. Indeed, our concupiscence renders us inherent enemies of God. Baptismal regeneration begins the new life of faith and drowns the Old Adam within us, although by our own choice we may abandon that grace, drive the Holy Spirit from us and leave ourselves trebly worthy of damnation. Of course, we who fall may call once again call upon God, Who will raise us up and dwell within us, letting us utilize our thoroughly undeserved forgiveness by hearing the Word and partaking in the Sacraments. We return to our Holy Baptism when the Holy Spirit leads us to repentance and faith. We walk in faith as long as the Lord graces us to do. Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!

You've repeated Lutheran theology which others have posted before. I do not blame you for that. It is reasonable if your intent is to explain your position but what I am interested to know is how do you interact with what is written in Matthew 25 on the last judgement.