Justification: By OUR works or CHRIST'S works?

[MoreCoffee]

The Law tells us specifically what WE are to do and not do.

The Gospel tells us what GOD does.

According to some posts "we" are to do nothing in relation to salvation but exactly what that means is not spelled out. It clearly does not mean "we" can do as we please and still be redeemed. It clearly does not mean "we" need not believe. It clearly does not mean "we" are utterly passive in the Christian life. But if "we" do nothing then how can "we" believe, obey, pray, worship, love, and serve? Surely when "we" do those things they are not done by somebody else. Yet some posts treat the suggestion that "we" do these things by the grace of God as anathema. Specifically one post says "you not only to do NOT believe that Jesus is the Savior but that you are offended by that teaching. So is Catholicism."

Another post says: "The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets and offered his shed blood as the sacrificial blood of the new covenant thus offering the perfect oblation. "Oh, that there were one among you who would shut the doors, that you might not kindle fire upon my altar in vain! I have no pleasure in you, says Jehovah of hosts, and I will not accept an offering from your hand. For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says Jehovah of hosts. But you profane it when you say that Jehovah's table is polluted, and the food for it may be despised." (Malachi 1:10-12) "Therefore, having been justified by faith, let us be at peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ. For through him we also have access by faith to this grace, in which we stand firm, and to glory, in the hope of the glory of the sons of God. And not only that, but we also find glory in tribulation, knowing that tribulation exercises patience, and patience leads to proving, yet truly proving leads to hope, but hope is not unfounded, because the love of God is poured forth in our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. Yet why did Christ, while we were still infirm, at the proper time, suffer death for the impious? Now someone might barely be willing to die for the sake of justice, for example, perhaps someone might dare to die for the sake of a good man. But God demonstrates his love for us in that, while we were yet sinners, at the proper time, Christ died for us. Therefore, having been justified now by his blood, all the more so shall we be saved from wrath through him. For if we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, while we were still enemies, all the more so, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. And not only that, but we also glory in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation." (Romans 5:1-11) "When he had gone, Jesus said: Now has the Son of man been glorified, and in him God has been glorified. If God has been glorified in him, God will in turn glorify him in himself, and will glorify him very soon. Little children, I shall be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and, as I told the Jews, where I am going, you cannot come. I give you a new commandment: love one another; you must love one another just as I have loved you. It is by your love for one another, that everyone will recognise you as my disciples." (John 13:31-35)"

I will take "another post" as true and eschew "one post" as defamation and untruth.

 

[psalms 91]

Salvation is salvation. Yes, man can fall as scripture states. But salvation is always entirely 100% GOD's doing. Not man's. We do not contribute to our salvation.

Right we show love by obedience or else run the ruisk of being condemned because of disobedience and thus a liack of love for the Saviour

 

[Alithis]

Salvation is salvation. Yes, man can fall as scripture states. But salvation is always entirely 100% GOD's doing. Not man's. We do not contribute to our salvation.

oh is it that osas thing again.. ..its a lie a doctrine of devils -think it through
if a man who once entered the way of life in chrsit .then walks in disobedience and continues to do so and becomes deluded and a homosexual chrsitian and then falls further into all manner of depravity having his conscious seared and is sitting on his computer looking at child porn on the day of the lord -- then by your reasoning he wil then be saved and go to heaven because " salvation is salvation " and there nothing he can contribute to it .. right ?
WRONG ..he did not remain loyal to the faith ,he did not practice righteousness

we are set free from serving one that we might now serve the other .. serving is NOT a passive inactivity -we can do nothing to offer ourselves that salvation christ did it . but we must now be obedient to what he has done . or that which we grasped by faith and wil recive in full on the day of the lord ..wil be lost if we fdal from the faith ,for we wil lose our own grasp on it .
if we walk in the flesh to do the wil of the flesh we wil sin and sin reaps death.. God is not mocked .
salvation is offered by grace ,it is grasped by faith and it is continued in by obedicen proving that both faith and love are sincere

faith hopes for that which we do not yet have but calls that which is not as though it already is .. there fore by faith we are saved .. but it is o the day of the lord that we wil recive that salvation in actuality and no longe by faith alone.
fall from faith and we wil not recive what we once had faith to recieve on the day of the lord . it is he that endures to the end that is saved at the end .until then we await that day ..in faith.
it is they who obey they who bare fruit they who listen and folow the lord jesus ,they who die to thier own will to DO the wil of God .. they who take up thier cross daily , they who believe and do not fall away into doubts the sin of unbelief they who multiply the kingdom of god by thier obedience ..to whom the lord jesus wil say , well dont good and faithful servant .

not they who said a sinner's prayer one time go to a church on a sunday sing a nice song feel good about themselves and never go on to walk in obedicen
thinking unto themselves i am rich and wel and i have need of nothing and so not seeing that they are naked poor wretched and blind .

 

[Lamb]

We do nothing for our salvation. It's really awful to keep reading that people rely on themselves instead of the Christ who suffered horribly for your sins.

No one here is claiming Once Saved Always Saved.

God promises to never leave us. We have His promise that our sins are forgiven.

So how does man fall and go to hell? He turns away from God, kicks aside his faith in the Savior and the cross and rejects the forgiveness of sins.

 

[psalms 91]

We do nothing for our salvation. It's really awful to keep reading that people rely on themselves instead of the Christ who suffered horribly for your sins.

No one here is claiming Once Saved Always Saved.

God promises to never leave us. We have His promise that our sins are forgiven.

So how does man fall and go to hell? He turns away from God, kicks aside his faith in the Savior and the cross and rejects the forgiveness of sins.

So you admit that one saved you can fall as according to Hebrews 6. I agree that we are saved by faith in Christ and that we play no part in it other than believing and confessing, it is Christy who saves us, what we do after being saved isanother matter

 

[visionary]

If you lived in Noah's day, and believed in God, believed in your pastor of that time, believed that since there never has been a flood or rain falling from the sky, that Noah's offer of salvation is non-sense, since you already have that through your local congregational preaching. Does that mean you are saved by faith?

 

[MoreCoffee]

We do nothing for our salvation. It's really awful to keep reading that people rely on themselves instead of the Christ who suffered horribly for your sins.

No one here is claiming Once Saved Always Saved.

God promises to never leave us. We have His promise that our sins are forgiven.

So how does man fall and go to hell? He turns away from God, kicks aside his faith in the Savior and the cross and rejects the forgiveness of sins.

God's promises are made to those in union with Christ Jesus, right? It is the teaching of Christ that union with him works this way: Jesus said, I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. This I command you, to love one another. (John 15:1-17)

 

[Alithis]

We do nothing for our salvation. It's really awful to keep reading that people rely on themselves instead of the Christ who suffered horribly for your sins.

No one here is claiming Once Saved Always Saved.

God promises to never leave us. We have His promise that our sins are forgiven.

So how does man fall and go to hell? He turns away from God, kicks aside his faith in the Savior and the cross and rejects the forgiveness of sins.

obedient To the lord jesus .. not obedience to self .is NOT reliance on self in any way shape or form .

 

[Lamb]

Salvation comes from the Savior. Yet people here say that even though their sins are forgiven that they still aren't? At least that's what I've read here. Are all your sins forgiven or not? Which sins didn't get nailed to the cross and be atoned for?

By grace through faith grasps onto the forgiveness won at the cross. If you don't believe that your sins are forgiven, then your faith isn't grasping the Gospel.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Salvation comes from the Savior. Yet people here say that even though their sins are forgiven that they still aren't? At least that's what I've read here. Are all your sins forgiven or not? Which sins didn't get nailed to the cross and be atoned for?

By grace through faith grasps onto the forgiveness won at the cross. If you don't believe that your sins are forgiven, then your faith isn't grasping the Gospel.

Sins are forgiven and sadly new ones come to take their place yet, please God, the number of new ones may diminish with time as the Holy Spirit converts the soul.

 

[Josiah]

obedient To the lord jesus .. not obedience to self .is NOT reliance on self in any way shape or form .

Self is not the Savior - whether self is obedient to self or anything or anyone else. Jesus is the Savior, not you or me. Job's taken. Your abandonment of the central affirmation of Christianity and embrace of the soteriology of Islam and some forms of Hinduism is something I reject.




.

 

[psalms 91]

Noone is saying that Christ isnt the sacviourbut only for thiose who repent and turn from their sinful lifestyle, noone is saved to continue doing what they were doing and yes we sin daily so we need forgiveness each day and we are told to confess, what if you dont confess and are unrepentant of a sin? That is a sin that is not forgiven till we do.

 

[TurtleHare]

Noone is saying that Christ isnt the sacviourbut only for thiose who repent and turn from their sinful lifestyle, noone is saved to continue doing what they were doing and yes we sin daily so we need forgiveness each day and we are told to confess, what if you dont confess and are unrepentant of a sin? That is a sin that is not forgiven till we do.

Do you think Jesus goes back to the cross daily for you to die for those sins so they are forgiven or do you believe that His death covered all your sins?

I understand that if we repent of our sins that they are forgiven yet those are the same sins that Jesus died for on the cross and I am wondering if you see the big picture of what Jesus dying on the cross and the atonement being made actually means because that is done outside of "self".

 

[psalms 91]

No I think that we crucify Him anew if we dont repent and turn away, it isnt a matter of Christ dying once again but rather us crucifing Him once again, and yet once again you wish to tear pages and biooks out of the bible to justify your view. We are commanded to keep certain commandments and to do certain things and it says if we love Jesus we will do them, if not what does that mean? Did Christ die for you no matter if you accept Him or not? Did He die for you to go out and commit sin and never repent of it? Scripture gives us those answers and it doesnt jive with what you are trying to preach

 

[TurtleHare]

No I think that we crucify Him anew if we dont repent and turn away, it isnt a matter of Christ dying once again but rather us crucifing Him once again, and yet once again you wish to tear pages and biooks out of the bible to justify your view. We are commanded to keep certain commandments and to do certain things and it says if we love Jesus we will do them, if not what does that mean? Did Christ die for you no matter if you accept Him or not? Did He die for you to go out and commit sin and never repent of it? Scripture gives us those answers and it doesnt jive with what you are trying to preach

Which of your sins weren't taken to the cross?

 

[psalms 91]

Which of your sins weren't taken to the cross?

None but I also must obey Christ and walk in the spirit, if not then I am in danger of eternal damnation. My sins are forgiven as long as I dont wiollfully sin and as long as I repent of them, otherwise then they are not forgiven until such time as I do, sure you dont want to split it out further to take it even further from what the Word says?

 

[TurtleHare]

Question: Which of your sins weren't taken to the cross?

Bill: None

Bill: as long as I repent of them

Now, look at what happens there and you'll see that your repentance isn't creating forgiven sins since they are still the same ones forgiven at the cross where Jesus died. It's obvious.

 

[Alithis]

Which of your sins weren't taken to the cross?

the ones we didnt commit

 

[Lamb]

When you repent, are they not forgiven? Her point, is that they were forgiven over 2,000 years ago.

 

[MoreCoffee]

When you repent, are they not forgiven? Her point, is that they were forgiven over 2,000 years ago.

If they were forgiven 2,000 years ago then why ask now for forgiveness?