Communion of the Saints

[ImaginaryDay2]

They both believe the Bible is the word of God. What do you believe?

So we've reached absurdity? Good.

 

[MennoSota]

Back at ya - where is the correlation that the prayers being offered to God in those passages are those prayers offered to the 24 elders instead of God? Why does it trouble you that these elders of scripture should be making such an offering?

It doesn't trouble me.
I don't see the correlation of those passages with humans praying to people in heaven.

 

[RichWh1]

So we've reached absurdity? Good.

What are you referring to? Enlighten me please!


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[YourTruthGod]

Catholics of all kinds and Orthodox teach us to pray to Mary and the other “Saints”. However, there is only one Mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5.

It is wrong to pray to Mary. It is wrong to say the Rosary. Catholics teach that we should pray to Mary and Saints, but we are not supposed to do that. We can ask others to pray for us, but we are not to pray to others.

Catholics pray to Mary and ask her to go to Jesus with their request. They also do this with the Catholic saints. Catholics pray things to Mary and Saints that should only be said to Jesus.

When a person is saved…they have Jesus living inside them. They are reconciled to God.
Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16.

In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. Ephesians 3:12.

Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died–more than that, who was raised to life–is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Romans 8:34.

And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will. Romans 8:27.

Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Hebrews 7:25.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5.

We do NOT go through Mary and Saints to get to Jesus and God, or for Mary and Saints to answer prayers for us.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Saints of God are not "mediums and necromancers" (ESV)
Psychics calling on your Aunt Betsy? Well...

Did you not read the words of wisdom?

The scripture speaks of mediums and psychics, but what is the message you should have grasped?

This is the part that should have stood out to you :

"should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

 

[YourTruthGod]

There are many Catholic prayers to Mary and Saints, prayers that show how wrong it is.

Here is just one of many prayers to Mary:

Memorare

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary,
that never was it known that anyone,
who fled to your protection,
implored your help, or sought your intercession,
was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence,
I fly to you, O Virgin of virgins my Mother.
To you do I come,
before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful.
O Mother of the Word incarnate,
despise not my petitions,
but in your clemency,
hear and answer me. Amen.


Sub tuum praesidium

We fly to Thy protection,
O Holy Mother of God;
Do; not despise our petitions
in our necessities,
but deliver us always
from all dangers,
O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen.

Morning Consecration to Mary

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.



Some of the things the Catholics pray to Mary should only be said to Jesus.

 

[Josiah]

There are many Catholic prayers to Mary and Saints, prayers that show how wrong it is.

Here is just one of many prayers to Mary:

Memorare

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary,
that never was it known that anyone,
who fled to your protection,
implored your help, or sought your intercession,
was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence,
I fly to you, O Virgin of virgins my Mother.
To you do I come,
before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful.
O Mother of the Word incarnate,
despise not my petitions,
but in your clemency,
hear and answer me. Amen.


Sub tuum praesidium

We fly to Thy protection,
O Holy Mother of God;
Do; not despise our petitions
in our necessities,
but deliver us always
from all dangers,
O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen.

Morning Consecration to Mary

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.



Some of the things the Catholics pray to Mary should only be said to Jesus.

IMO, it is CLEAR that often Catholics pray TO Mary (not just through Her)... and expect the outcome to be from or at least because of Her. They will CLAIM they don't do this (because technically they aren't suppose to do this), CLAIMING they are only asking Mary or some other saint to pass on the request to Jesus (nothing more) but the reality is something very different.




.

 

[YourTruthGod]

IMO, it is CLEAR that often Catholics pray TO Mary (not just through Her)... and expect the outcome to be from or at least because of Her. They will CLAIM they don't do this (because technically they aren't suppose to do this), CLAIMING they are only asking Mary or some other saint to pass on the request to Jesus (nothing more) but the reality is something very different.

Right; it is strange that the Catholics pray to Mary and Saints and say things to them that we should only say to Jesus. Really all the prayers said to the Catholic's Saints are things that should only be said to Jesus.

Just read some of the prayers the Catholics say; it is like some superstitious strange rituals.


no·ve·na
/nōˈvēnə/
noun
(in the Roman Catholic Church) a form of worship consisting of special prayers or services on nine successive days.


The following is from a Catholic prayer site:
https://www.ourcatholicprayers.com/prayer-to-st-jude.html
These two prayers to St. Jude, like the previous ones, can be used as a novena (a prayer said for nine consecutive days).

O Holy St Jude!
Apostle and Martyr,
great in virtue and rich in miracles,
near kinsman of Jesus Christ,
faithful intercessor for all who invoke you,
special patron in time of need;
to you I have recourse from the depth of my heart,
and humbly beg you,
to whom God has given such great power,
to come to my assistance;
help me now in my urgent need and grant my earnest petition.
I will never forget thy graces and favors you obtain for me
and I will do my utmost to spread devotion to you. Amen.

St. Jude, pray for us and all who honor thee and invoke thy aid.
(Say 3 Our Father's, 3 Hail Mary’s, and 3 Glory Be’s after this.)

Note that in addition to saying a prayer to St. Jude, we can invoke his aid by offering Holy Masses and Communions in his honor. We can also engage in charitable works in his name.

 

[Andrew]

Many so called saints are made up too, for a specific charm, pagans never called their gods 'God', it was always the god of this and the god of that ...
My mom gave me a key chain of St. Christopher to keep me safe when I'm driving, St. Christopher was a humble giant that carried baby Jesus across rough waters. Lovely story and I honer my moms wishes to keep it, when I see it I just think of my mom reminding me to be safe
I'm not sure if we should pray to any name other than Christ, the Saints in heaven offer up prayers because what we hold true down here is held true in Heaven, the Apostles prayed for saints but not to them.
I'm not trying to be insulting to Catholics I just know that some of these saints probably never existed and so praying to lets say St. Christopher who comes from an earlier myth is something Paul would address from mars hill as being overly superstitious.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

What are you referring to? Enlighten me please!


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The asking of absurd questions (yours of MC) is absurdity

 

[Albion]

Many so called saints are made up too, for a specific charm, pagans never called their gods 'God', it was always the god of this and the god of that ...
My mom gave me a key chain of St. Christopher to keep me safe when I'm driving, St. Christopher was a humble giant that carried baby Jesus across rough waters. Lovely story and I honer my moms wishes to keep it, when I see it I just think of my mom reminding me to be safe
I'm not sure if we should pray to any name other than Christ, the Saints in heaven offer up prayers because what we hold true down here is held true in Heaven, the Apostles prayed for saints but not to them.
I'm not trying to be insulting to Catholics I just know that some of these saints probably never existed and so praying to lets say St. Christopher who comes from an earlier myth is something Paul would address from mars hill as being overly superstitious.

I'm in agreement on the basic issue of praying to saints, but there really are not many saints who never were. A few, yes, but this is not characteristic of the history of canonizing saints.

 

[Andrew]

I'm in agreement on the basic issue of praying to saints, but there really are not many saints who never were. A few, yes, but this is not characteristic of the history of canonizing saints.

Yes but calling them by name or to a specific saint is not biblical, I have prayed for saints to come because I recall reading a passage in the bible that tells us to pray (to God) for saints to come to your church so that it's not made up of ignorant and negligent teachers... I can't remember the exact words or where I saw it but that's the impression I remember when I read it. Saints in general or praying for the Body of Christ is one thing, but praying to St. Paul or St. Peter etc by name is absurd

 

[Albion]

Yes but calling them by name or to a specific saint is not biblical....

I don't see any reason to think that. They--canonized saints--have names that are known, and they are people whom the church considers to have been exemplary Christians while alive in the flesh. Such people are indeed called saints in the Bible, just like every other true believer.

but praying to St. Paul or St. Peter etc by name is absurd

Well, that's a different matter, isn't it?

 

[MennoSota]

I don't see any reason to think that. They--canonized saints--have names that are known, and they are people whom the church considers to have been exemplary Christians while alive in the flesh. Such people are indeed called saints in the Bible, just like every other true believer.


Well, that's a different matter, isn't it?

All believers are referred to as saints in the Bible. It seems silly to think that some pointy hat dudes could sit in a room and consider some better than others. In fact it seems to go contrary to biblical thought regarding the body of Christ and not one part being more important than another.
What humans consider exemplary may not be what God considers exemplary.
There seems to be no cause or value to praying to a human designated saint so that they might mediate on your behalf. We have direct access to the throne of grace. In fact, Ephesians 2 says we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies. It strikes me as a significant let down to be begging a man-created saint for help when we can turn to Christ and ask him ourselves.

 

[Albion]

All believers are referred to as saints in the Bible. It seems silly to think that some pointy hat dudes could sit in a room and consider some better than others.

Relax. They wouldn't be wearing mitres when considering the matter.

 

[atpollard]

As long as we are discussing Saints of the Roman Catholic Church, I have a question:

Near me is a RCC called St. Michael the Archangel Roman Catholic Church (that has a beautiful sanctuary and a nice Midnight Mass on Christmas).
I can understand that there might be a Saint Michael (what do I know about RC saints), and I know who Michael the Archangel is (he fought with Satan to help the angel deliver the message to Daniel).

Saint Michael would have to be a man, so he can’t be an Archangel.
Michael the Archangel is an angel, so he can’t be a saint.
So ... Who is Saint Michael the Archangel?

 

[Lamb]

Here is what I found on CatholicExchange:https://catholicexchange.com/why-do-we-call-the-archangels-saints

The word “saint” derives from the Latin word “sancta,” meaning “holy” one. Thus, by definition all of God’s holy angels are saints. Not all angels are holy, however, as some angels chose to follow Satan instead of God. These bad angels, called demons, seek our ruin and give us cause to ask for the help of God’s angels in spiritual battle.

While all of the heavenly angels are holy, only three have been called “saint”: Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. The early Church venerated these angels, i.e., gave them honor, invoked their names, and asked for their intercession.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Many so called saints are made up too, for a specific charm, pagans never called their gods 'God', it was always the god of this and the god of that ...
My mom gave me a key chain of St. Christopher to keep me safe when I'm driving, St. Christopher was a humble giant that carried baby Jesus across rough waters. Lovely story and I honer my moms wishes to keep it, when I see it I just think of my mom reminding me to be safe
I'm not sure if we should pray to any name other than Christ, the Saints in heaven offer up prayers because what we hold true down here is held true in Heaven, the Apostles prayed for saints but not to them.
I'm not trying to be insulting to Catholics I just know that some of these saints probably never existed and so praying to lets say St. Christopher who comes from an earlier myth is something Paul would address from mars hill as being overly superstitious.

I think Paul would have rebuked the people. Just look at what Paul said to the people when he heard that some were saying they had favorite apostles.

And, look at what Peter said when Cornelius prostrated himself when Peter came into his house; yet, Eastern Orthodox Catholics prostrate themselves before a picture of a saint.

Acts 10:25-26 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”

1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Andrew]

I don't see any reason to think that. They--canonized saints--have names that are known, and they are people whom the church considers to have been exemplary Christians while alive in the flesh. Such people are indeed called saints in the Bible, just like every other true believer.


Well, that's a different matter, isn't it?

I meant calling on them by name as in prayer

 

[RichWh1]

The word 'saint' means holy one.


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