Baptism in Jesus’ name, Trinitarian style.

[Albion]

The baptism you preach is a tradition of men.

Well, yes, belief in the Bible as authoritative (because it's the revealed word of God) has been a part of the Christian religion for two millennia now, so you could call it something that's traditionally been a part of the religion.

I sought God and found God.

God told you to be baptized and you refuse. Does that make sense?

You don't just 'find God' and then refuse what he instructed men to do about it! That should be obvious. To find God, no matter how we word that development, you must become a disciple of God or else you haven't actually found Him.

 

[shilohsfoal]

As I recall from the Bible, Christ didn't baptize anyone himself although he instructed others to do it in his name. And every example of a Christian baptism given in the New Testament involves a missionary of some sort doing the baptism of converts. All of this you reject out of hand even though it's clearcut in the Bible.

He instructed to Baptiste in his name. Not water.
Christs name is not water.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well, yes, belief in the Bible as authoritative (because it's the revealed word of God) has been a part of the Christian religion for two millennia now, so you could call it something that's traditionally been a part of the religion.

God told you to be baptized and you refuse. Does that make sense?

You don't just 'find God' and then refuse what he instructed men to do about it! That should be obvious. To find God, no matter how we word that development, you must become a disciple of God or else you haven't actually found Him.

God did not tell me to get baptised.
He baptised me himself.

 

[Albion]

Are you sudjesting

No, I wouldn't do that!

the gentiles who are washed clean by God could not be washed clean if they didn't personally meet Jesus?

Name a few Gentiles for us who thought they'd been baptized in some way but never agreed to receive the sacrament of Baptism as Jesus taught all of us to do...and yet who are known to be sincere Christians?

 

[shilohsfoal]

No, I wouldn't do that!


Name a few Gentiles for us who thought they'd been baptized in some way but never agreed to receive the sacrament of Baptism as Jesus taught all of us to do...and yet who are known to be sincere Christians?

Here are a few who didn't need to be washed in your tradition. Why do you feel someone would need to be washed by man after God had completely cleaned them?

Acts 11:9-17
The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’
This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.
Right then three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying.
The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house.
He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

Why do you feel they need to be washed by a man after God had cleaned them?

 

[Albion]

Here are a few who didn't need to be washed in your tradition. Why do you feel someone would need to be washed by man after God had completely cleaned them?

Acts 11:9-17
The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’
This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.
Right then three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying.
The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house.
He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

Why do you feel they need to be washed by a man after God had cleaned them?

Wait a minute. There is nothing there about those unnamed men refusing the sacrament of baptism.

What's more, if you read a little bit further in that same passage, we find this--

" Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."

That Bible passage refutes your entire theory as clearly as anything we've tried to explain to you before now--not only as concerns water in Christian baptism (not just in "the baptism of John"), but also as concerns your claim about men not being intended to administer the sacrament of Baptism.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Wait a minute. There is nothing there about those unnamed men refusing the sacrament of baptism.

What's more, if you read a little bit further in that same passage, we find this--

" Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."

That Bible passage refutes your entire theory as clearly as anything we've tried to explain to you before now--not only as concerns water in Christian baptism (not just in "the baptism of John"), but also as concerns your claim about men not being intended to administer the sacrament of Baptism.

So you believe what God has washed was not clean and you believe Peter needed to wash them himself? The point is,


"Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’"


You also make the mistake of thinking what God has washed clean needs to be washed clean by someone else.

Could it be, that you believe a man needs to wash you because God has not?

 

[Albion]

So you believe what God has washed was not clean and you believe Peter needed to wash them himself? The point is,

What I believe is what the word of God testifies to. And in this case it rebuts two of the leading claims you have been advancing.

For one, the Bible clearly teaches that baptism is an act done with the application of water to the candidate. And for another, this it is not something we just intuit or even about which we might make a commitment. Christ instructed all to be baptized, not merely to think they were his and would inherit the kingdom because of their sincerity, etc.

Interestingly enough, both of your contentions were undeniably and forcefully rejected by the very chapter from Acts which you chose to offer us as proof of your own thinking, which is along different lines from what we find in Scripture.

 

[shilohsfoal]

What I believe is what the word of God testifies to. And in this case it rebuts two of the leading claims you have been advancing. For one, the Bible clearly teaches that baptism is done with the application of water to the candidate. And for another, that it is not something we just intuit or about which we have a change of heart. Christ instructed all to be baptized, not to think they were his and would inherit the kingdom merely because of their sincerity.

Interestingly enough, both of your contentions were undeniably and forcefully rejected by the very chapter from Acts which you chose to offer us as proof of your own thinking.

Christ never said to be baptised in water.
You do.

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit

You preach the baptism you have been baptised with, which is water.

I preach the baptism I was baptised with, which is the holy ghost.

You were baptised with the baptism of John the baptist. I was baptised with the baptism of God.

 

[Albion]

Christ never said to be baptised in water.

Yes, he did. You were reminded of his exchange with Nicodemus a little bit earlier.

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit

Yes, Christian baptism conveys the Holy Spirit along with everything else that is involved.

That is one reason not to think the sacrament to be just a gesture, as many people do. And it suggests why it was that Christ was so deliberate and emphatic when ordaining the sacraments and explaining them to his listeners.

You were baptised with the baptism of John the baptist.

That's just nonsense. The "Baptism of John" isn't offered in any Christian church; and it differed from the Christian sacrament in a number of ways, even though both involve the application of water.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Yes, he did. You were reminded of his exchange with Nicodemus a little bit earlier.

Yes, Christian baptism conveys the Holy Spirit along with everything else that is involved.

That is one reason not to think the sacrament to be just a gesture, as many people do. And it suggests why it was that Christ was so deliberate and emphatic when ordaining the sacraments and explaining them to his listeners.

That's just nonsense. The "Baptism of John" isn't offered in any Christian church; and it differed from the Christian sacrament in a number of ways, even though both involve the application of water.

The baptism of John is water baptism

Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Luke 3:16
John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Two completely different baptisms.
You preach johns water baptism.
I preach God's, holy spirit baptism.

 

[shilohsfoal]

There's a good reason why the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the baptist.
John was never baptised by Christ.

 

[Albion]

The baptism of John is water baptism

Sure, but that has nothing to do with Christian baptism which is what the Bible also teaches us.

Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

John's Baptism was only symbolic of the Jewish recipient's commitment. Christian Baptism is more than that by far, including the imparting of the Holy Spirit.

“I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Just as I explained above.

Two completely different baptisms.

Yes indeed.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Sure, but that has nothing to do with Christian baptism which is what the Bible also teaches us.

John's Baptism was only symbolic of the Jewish recipient's commitment. Christian Baptism is more than that by far, including the imparting of the Holy Spirit.


Just as I explained above.


Yes indeed.

The so called Christian water baptism came from johns water baptism.
They are the same water baptism. It's just water which is what you've been preaching.

Luke 3:16
John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

There are two types of baptism.
John's water baptism, and Christ's holy spirit baptism.
John can not batise in the holy ghost and christ does not baptised in water.

 

[Josiah]

.

Two points:

1. According to Ephesians 4:5, there is only one baptism. At least as of 63AD when Paul wrote that. And it seems according to Acts 8:36, it involves water.

2. Traditionally, John's baptism has been considered a JEWISH, OLD COVENANT thing, one of the Jewish forms of baptism. Generally, it's seen as involving water but evidently not the Holy Spirit. But Jesus' baptism is not simply a continuation of the Jewish one, it's a CHRISTIAN, NEW COVENANT thing. And the promise connected with it is receiving the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38. Thus, it seems that the New Covenant, Post Pentecost Baptism (the one in Christianity) involves Water and the Holy Spirit. Not two different baptisms but one because the Bible says there is only one and the Bible probably isn't wrong about that.



.

 

[Albion]

The so called Christian water baptism came from johns water baptism.

There is very little that's entirely original in the history of religion, which is why skeptics often claim that Christianity is Paganism warmed-over. Or some people say it's just advanced Judaism.

That's not correct, but they had holidays, and we have holidays. They celebrated with special banquets and meals. Vows were made. And the initiation rites featured some fluid or other. There are many other examples of the similarities.

So, with the Baptism of John which was going on among the Jews, the pouring of water was an obvious symbol. And what we call the "Baptism of John" was not original with him either, as a number of roving preachers had been baptizing for decades before John started.

Therefore, it means nothing to say they had ceremonies...and that we also have ceremonies, EXCEPT THAT the purpose of John's Baptism was much less significant.

And what was the baptism like that Jesus ordered his followers to adhere to?? It was much more meaningful and complex, and among the differences was this element: the Holy Spirit was/is imparted by the sacrament. But yes, they both used water.

They are the same water baptism.

Not according to the New Testament.

 

[shilohsfoal]

There is very little that's entirely original in the history of religion, which is why skeptics often claim that Christianity is Paganism warmed-over. Or some people say it's just advanced Judaism.

That's not correct, but they had holidays, and we have holidays. They celebrated with special banquets and meals. Vows were made. And the initiation rites featured some fluid or other. There are many other examples of the similarities.

So, with the Baptism of John which was going on among the Jews, the pouring of water was an obvious symbol. And what we call the "Baptism of John" was not original with him either, as a number of roving preachers had been baptizing for decades before John started.

Therefore, it means nothing to say they had ceremonies...and that we also have ceremonies, EXCEPT THAT the purpose of John's Baptism was much less significant.

And what was the baptism like that Jesus ordered his followers to adhere to?? It was much more meaningful and complex, and among the differences was this element: the Holy Spirit was/is imparted by the sacrament. But yes, they both used water.


Not according to the New Testament.

Water is water. There is no changing water. The same water john bsptise in is the same water man baptised in today. The same water I shower in is no different than the water a Baptist swims in.

 

[Lamb]

Water is water. There is no changing water. The same water john bsptise in is the same water man baptised in today. The same water I shower in is no different than the water a Baptist swims in.

Water is water if it's water alone...but add God's word to the water then it's baptism. Don't you think God's word is powerful?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Water is water if it's water alone...but add God's word to the water then it's baptism. Don't you think God's word is powerful?

The word bsptism comes from the Greek baptismo. It just means to wash.
Alot of people wash in water. Pontius Pilate washed his hands for all to see that his hands were clean. I'm sure even Caialhas washed as well.
John the baptist came washing in water.
But the Lord washes in the holy ghost.

Just because Caiaphus washed in water doesn't mean he would be washed in the holy ghost.

John 14:46
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

When someone is washed in the holy ghost, they are washed in the name of Jesus Christ because the holy ghost comes in his name.

Water is not in Jesus name. It's just water.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Water is water if it's water alone...but add God's word to the water then it's baptism. Don't you think God's word is powerful?

In fact, I'd say Caiaphas definitely washed with water regularly. Water is great at cleaning the outside.
Mathew 23:25
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

I'm sure they didn't understand the holy ghost washes the inside because they never recieved it.