Evangelical Only Ash wednesday -Odins day .. Interesting information regarding the practice

[Lamb]

NOTE : In the interest of non debate..but the presentation of information to aid in defining truth of scripture from false doctrines..iv listed this under evangelical only. -i did this because there was no option for charismatic pentecostal only .. ( and im not asking there to be )

HOWEVER note to MODS .. i have now observed that there is an option for "romans catholic OR lutheran OR evangelical .. which means by the sites definition lutheran is not inclusive under evangelical (being that it has its own denominational setting set apart from evangelical )and should not be debating in this particular thread .

i enjoy informal debating ..for sure! but in THIS thread ,for the sake of over all peace ..i desired to AVOID DEBATING

Lutherans are considered Evangelical. One of the largest Lutheran groups has the term Evangelical in the synod name, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, so they are allowed to post under this prefix.

 

[Tigger]

Lutherans are considered Evangelical. One of the largest Lutheran groups has the term Evangelical in the synod name, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, so they are allowed to post under this prefix.

Don't forget that Lutheran is the original Evangelicals

 

[Lamb]

And the original Protestants

 

[Josiah]

the lord Jesus never give the commands that it be taught

It's a practice, not a teaching. And contrary to your opening post, it IS found in Scripture (many times!) and it IS found before 1000 AD. Both of your points have been proven to be wrong.


So what if it can't be proven if Jesus specifically did this or not? Why this new silly argument of yours? You are posting on the internet, can you prove that Jesus did that? Ah.... then you condemn yourself. Oh, and there's no evidence that the internet has its origins in Christianity or is used exclusively by Christians! Pagans may do this!!!!! Maybe even before Christians started doing this!

Do you swim? Can you prove that Jesus swam? Can you prove that the first one to swim was a Christian? And that ONLY Christians swim?
Do you drive? Can you prove that Jesus drove? Can you even prove that the first one to drive was a Christian? And that ONLY Christians drive?
Do you ever fly in a plane? Can you prove that Jesus flew in a plane? Or even that the first person to do so was a Christian? And that ONLY Christian fly in planes?

When you have NOTHING, you retreat to this silly, absurd argument which YOU don't beleive and YOU don't follow - so why should we? It's a silly, absurd, laughable argument - IMO, you know it. And you don't believe or do it anyway.





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[TurtleHare]

Be careful, Josiah that you don't do anything that Jesus didn't do because then you're a pagan and not a true follower. You better not be wearing trousers because Jesus didn't wear them! Did Jesus get a haircut? Did he shave? That might be pagan works there so watch out. You want to be such an exact replica of Jesus don't you?

Enough of the ridiculousness already because that's all that this is about and people see through it and know that Ash Wednesday doesn't point to pagans no matter how hard someone wants to try to tell people that it does.

 

[Alithis]

Lutherans are considered Evangelical. One of the largest Lutheran groups has the term Evangelical in the synod name, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, so they are allowed to post under this prefix.

thats not the point ... but since you raised it let it be on record that if a lutheran starts a "lutheran only " thread ..then it only excludes rcc an d by that ruling and all other can post in it - other wise you have a double standard .

also .. the topic here is not just putting ask on your head .. though as i have pointed out .i dont observe any of the other attributes of the practice ..such as weeping and intense sorrow with repentance -rather it seems to be something enjoyed .. with folks wishing one another "happy ash wednesday " and the like . in stark contrast to a state of sorrowful repentance if there ever was one . so in that vein of thought the practice of placing ash on the forehead becomes an act of pretence , a show with no spiritual value followed by a fast for the same reasons .especially in light of what the lord declares a true fast to be .

but the actual topic is - "ash wednesday " .. not just "ash " .. and about presenting information as to its origin and how it has no place in the Body of the lord JEsus being that it is derived from the worship of false demon gods .. we are told to follow what the lord Jesus commanded be taught us .. not whatever we make up or add in .

we do HIS will
not what ever we will .

 

[Alithis]

It's a practice, not a teaching. And contrary to your opening post, it IS found in Scripture (many times!) and it IS found before 1000 AD. Both of your points have been proven to be wrong.


So what if it can't be proven if Jesus specifically did this or not? Why this new silly argument of yours? You are posting on the internet, can you prove that Jesus did that? Ah.... then you condemn yourself. Oh, and there's no evidence that the internet has its origins in Christianity or is used exclusively by Christians! Pagans may do this!!!!! Maybe even before Christians started doing this!

Do you swim? Can you prove that Jesus swam? Can you prove that the first one to swim was a Christian? And that ONLY Christians swim?
Do you drive? Can you prove that Jesus drove? Can you even prove that the first one to drive was a Christian? And that ONLY Christians drive?
Do you ever fly in a plane? Can you prove that Jesus flew in a plane? Or even that the first person to do so was a Christian? And that ONLY Christian fly in planes?

When you have NOTHING, you retreat to this silly, absurd argument which YOU don't beleive and YOU don't follow - so why should we? It's a silly, absurd, laughable argument - IMO, you know it. And you don't believe or do it anyway.





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christians being taught to observe "ash odins" (in english ash wednesday-) is found in scripture ? .... really josiah? .. are you jesting ? what's the scriptural reference ?


in one essence you are correct .. as it originates also in the worship of the asteroths and the baals the practice of burning children i the fire- hence the resulting ash. ..the practices that god commanded be destroyed along all who practiced them .

 

[Alithis]

Be careful, Josiah that you don't do anything that Jesus didn't do because then you're a pagan and not a true follower. You better not be wearing trousers because Jesus didn't wear them! Did Jesus get a haircut? Did he shave? That might be pagan works there so watch out. You want to be such an exact replica of Jesus don't you?

Enough of the ridiculousness already because that's all that this is about and people see through it and know that Ash Wednesday doesn't point to pagans no matter how hard someone wants to try to tell people that it does.

strawman

 

[Lamb]

thats not the point ... but since you raised it let it be on record that if a lutheran starts a "lutheran only " thread ..then it only excludes rcc an d by that ruling and all other can post in it - other wise you have a double standard .

Please know that if a Lutheran starts a Lutheran Only prefix thread that ONLY Lutherans are allowed to post in there and any others can and probably will be removed.

Lutherans fall under more than one category so as I already stated, they're allowed to post in this thread just like Baptists could use a Baptist prefix for Baptists Only posting and yet, they are also considered evangelical and can post in here.

 

[psalms 91]

Please know that if a Lutheran starts a Lutheran Only prefix thread that ONLY Lutherans are allowed to post in there and any others can and probably will be removed.

Lutherans fall under more than one category so as I already stated, they're allowed to post in this thread just like Baptists could use a Baptist prefix for Baptists Only posting and yet, they are also considered evangelical and can post in here.

If you want you could request a pentecostal only prefix or you could just ask nively and perhaps people would respect that, or not, if not then you should push for what you need to keep it to the group you had in mind

 

[psalms 91]

If you want you could request a pentecostal only prefix or you could just ask nively and perhaps people would respect that, or not, if not then you should push for what you need to keep it to the group you had in mind

I really dont know why anyone would not respect your wishes as the originator, that would be rude

 

[Romanos]

ADMIN POST

​

Let us get back to the topic please. To address the prefix issue, we originally had a Charismatic prefix, but it was changed as per the request of a member who is in this thread. If you would like to suggest a prefix, you may do so in the appropriate forum which would be the Community Mattera area.

 

[Alithis]

NOTE : In the interest of non debate..but the presentation of information to aid in defining truth of scripture from false doctrines..iv listed this under evangelical only. -i did this because there was no option for charismatic pentecostal only .. ( and im not asking there to be )

HOWEVER note to MODS .. i have now observed that there is an option for "romans catholic OR lutheran OR evangelical .. which means by the sites definition lutheran is not inclusive under evangelical (being that it has its own denominational setting set apart from evangelical )and should not be debating in this particular thread .

i enjoy informal debating ..for sure! but in THIS thread ,for the sake of over all peace ..i desired to AVOID DEBATING

please note the line above in red .
and know the precedent set here allows any evangelical to freely post in a lutheran only thread.

now .back to the topic

 

[Alithis]

It's a practice, not a teaching. And contrary to your opening post, it IS found in Scripture (many times!) and it IS found before 1000 AD. Both of your points have been proven to be wrong.


So what if it can't be proven if Jesus specifically did this or not? Why this new silly argument of yours? You are posting on the internet, can you prove that Jesus did that? Ah.... then you condemn yourself. Oh, and there's no evidence that the internet has its origins in Christianity or is used exclusively by Christians! Pagans may do this!!!!! Maybe even before Christians started doing this!

Do you swim? Can you prove that Jesus swam? Can you prove that the first one to swim was a Christian? And that ONLY Christians swim?
Do you drive? Can you prove that Jesus drove? Can you even prove that the first one to drive was a Christian? And that ONLY Christians drive?
Do you ever fly in a plane? Can you prove that Jesus flew in a plane? Or even that the first person to do so was a Christian? And that ONLY Christian fly in planes?

When you have NOTHING, you retreat to this silly, absurd argument which YOU don't beleive and YOU don't follow - so why should we? It's a silly, absurd, laughable argument - IMO, you know it. And you don't believe or do it anyway.





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so you stumbled on the practice by accident huh ? lol nope ..you were taught it . get honest !
its not taught where i fellowship .. and hey ,, no one practices it .iteresting isn't it .

 

[Alithis]

This practice has no scriptural foundation at all.
The lord Jesus did not observe it or teach it,nor did the apostles.. I think it appears about 1000 years later .and is almost certainly of pagan origin.
Below is an excerpt from one site "among so many" which tell of the custom throughout the pagan world.
....
"The practice of putting ashes on one's forehead has been known from ancient times. In the Nordic pagan religion, placing ashes above one's brow was believed to ensure the protection of the Norse god, Odin. This practice spread to Europe during the Vikings conquests. This laying on of ashes was done on Wednesday, the day named for Odin, Odin's Day. Interestingly enough, according to Wikipedia, one of Odin's names is Ygg. The same is Norse for the World Ash. This name Ygg, closely resembles the Vedic name Agni in pronunciation.

The Norse practice which has become known as Ash Wednesday was itself, drawn from the Vedic Indian religion. Ashes were believed to be the seed Agni , the Indian fire god. It is from this name that the Latins used for fire, ignis. It is from this root word that the English language got the words, ignite, igneous and ignition. Agni was said to have the authority to forgive sins. Ashes were also believed to be symbolic for the purifying blood of the Vedic god Shiva, which it is said had the power to cleanse sins."...

This sort of thing..these little deviations from truth that later lead many astray into all manner of false doctrine, is why i often make such a big deal over seemingly little things.. After all,the serpant only implied one tinsy tiny lie when he asked..."did God say......?"

A little leaven ,leavens the whole lump.


it is simply historical knowledge
ash-wednesday also in a lot of cultures followed "fat tuesday." a sarcastic term for it methinks .. a day in which the people , knowing that a time of fasting was coming would party up in wonton sin as much as they could before they entered a time of (FALSE) repentance . in may cultures today this is continued as Mardi Gras .


the thing about true repentance is ..it is done in Godly sorrow and regret and a longing for things to be put right ..it is not preceded by by exuberant willfull sin .

 

[Lamb]

This practice has no scriptural foundation at all.
The lord Jesus did not observe it or teach it,nor did the apostles..

The Lord Jesus didn't need to practice it; He had no sin.

It's obvious you don't know why Ash Wednesday is practiced or you wouldn't have created this thread.

 

[Alithis]

The Lord Jesus didn't need to practice it; He had no sin.

this statement then proves that the father instigated it and the holy Spirit taught it without the knowing of the Son ??? -absolutely not .. it doesnt mater that JEsus did not need to practice it .. neither the father nor the Holy Spirit taught it either .. how on earth could the most high one true living God instigate a day in honour to a false demon called odin ? i mean.. i bewildered by the implication ..


im just presenting the historical facts abut a practice called "ash wednesday " as to its origin
as there is no "ash-wednesday" in the scripture ...

it is not taught in the scriptures ,it is not taught by the lord Jesus it is not taught under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost by the apostles .-it does not originate from God at all ,as it is ash wednesday.. from odin's day .. a false demon gods name . i would never ever defend such a thing .

the lOrd jesus said "if you love me you will do what I say .(keep MY commandments ) so if we love the lord jesus we wil do just that .. we wil not insist on doing what "we will "..

thy kingdom come THY will be done .. not MY wil be done . when we love the lord Jesus we care more for HIS will then for our traditions .

we always follow that which we love the most

 

[Josiah]

im just presenting the historical facts abut a practice called "ash wednesday " as to its origin
as there is no "ash-wednesday" in the scripture ...

There is no word "WEDNESDAY" in the Hebrew and Greek Bible because it's an ENGLISH word. When speaking ENGLISH, it's normal to use ENGLISH words. The name of that day in the ENGLISH language is WEDNESDAY. So, when referring to that day in the English language, it is appropriate to use the word "WEDNESDAY."

It's only called WEDNESDAY in English. If German was the language of this website, the word you would use in the opening post would be Aschermittwock The word translates into English as "Ash Mid-Week". And your whole "pagan" argument would disappear. But friend, if you think we should use GERMAN words when speaking ENGLISH, then why don't you?


It's already been proven that the use of ashes to signify repentance dates to at least 1000 BC AND IS FOUND IN THE BIBLE. All over the Bible. Several references where given for you. And in none of them... in none of the many cases..... never.... not once.... is the practice noted to be wrong, never condemned, never said to be wrong or bad or something to forbid or avoid. Not once. Not ever. In all the many examples in the Bible. Several were given to you. Verbatim. Literally. Word-for-word.


Even if all these cases of ashes being used in this way did not appear in the Bible, that still would not mean it's ergo bad. After all, you are posting on the internet. And there's not a single case of anyone ever posting on the internet in the Bible. But you are.... proving you don't believe it's wrong to do something never done in the Bible. So you don't beleive your own argument, you don't follow your own insistence.

And even if this practice ALSO existed among pagans, well... pagans also post on the internet but here you are doing it TOO. Pagans also drive cars and likely so do you. Pagans eat ... and likely so do you. Pagans watch TV... and likely you do too.



Your points are silly. And wrong.




.

 

[Alithis]

actualy wednesday -in english
The name is derived from Old English Wōdnesdæg and Middle English Wednesdei, "day of Woden", ultimately a calque of dies Mercurii "day of Mercury".


and from another source- The name Wednesday derives from two distinct gods. The Old English word for Wednesday indicates that the day was named for the Germanic god Woden. In Romance languages, the name is derived from the Roman god Mercury. (For example, Wednesday is mercredi in French and miercuri in Romanian.) Woden (also known as Odin) and Mercury have been associated since Scandinavian and Roman cultures crossed paths. Under Woden’s supervision, the earth and sky were created from the dead body of a giant named Ymir. Woden also created the first man and woman from an ash tree and an alder. As if fashioning the human race wasn’t enough, Woden also established the laws of the universe.

its just history displaying origin

and thereby displaying it originates fully in paganism and Zero in the one true living God .

 

[Josiah]

There is no word "WEDNESDAY" in the Hebrew and Greek Bible because it's an ENGLISH word. When speaking ENGLISH, it's normal to use ENGLISH words. The name of that day in the ENGLISH language is WEDNESDAY. So, when referring to that day in the English language, it is appropriate to use the word "WEDNESDAY."


It's only called WEDNESDAY in English. If German was the language of this website, the word you would use in the opening post would be Aschermittwock The word translates into English as "Ash Mid-Week". And your whole "pagan" argument would disappear. But friend, if you think we should use GERMAN words when speaking ENGLISH, then why don't you?



.

actualy wednesday -in english

Your problem is with people using ENGLISH words when speaking ENGLISH. That has nothing to do with the vast majority of Christians who embrace the ancient, biblical practice of applying ashes as a sign of repentance and humility.


Since both of us are using ENGLISH, why do you protest using ENGLISH words? How silly. When speaking ENGLISH, should we rather use German words? If we used GERMAN words when speaking ENGLISH, the word would be Aschermittwock and your whole silly, absurd point would vanish.


It's already been proven that the use of ashes to signify repentance dates to at least 1000 BC AND IS FOUND IN THE BIBLE. All over the Bible. Several references where given for you. And in none of them... in none of the many cases..... never.... not once.... is the practice noted to be wrong, never condemned, never said to be wrong or bad or something to forbid or avoid. Not once. Not ever. In all the many examples in the Bible. Several were given to you. Verbatim. Literally. Word-for-word.


Even if all these cases of ashes being used in this way did not appear in the Bible, that still would not mean it's ergo bad. After all, you are posting on the internet. And there's not a single case of anyone ever posting on the internet in the Bible. But you are.... proving you don't believe it's wrong to do something never done in the Bible. So you don't beleive your own argument, you don't follow your own insistence.

And even if this practice ALSO existed among pagans, well... pagans also post on the internet but here you are doing it TOO. Pagans also drive cars and likely so do you. Pagans eat ... and likely so do you. Pagans watch TV... and likely you do too.








- Josiah