Speaking in tongues?

[Alithis]

I'm not opposed to any gifts of the Spirit.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

not the only question i asked ..

 

[tango]

Not to mention that going to the hospital speaks of faith in doctors rather than faith in Gods healing. Doctors are fine and put here for a reason, to keep us going until we can build our faith to trust God for our healing

No more than going to work speaks of faith in my provision rather than in God's provision.

It makes no sense to make this claim about doctors unless you also want to claim that anyone who has a secular job is failing to trust God to provide for them.

 

[tango]

no contradiction, toungues are not satanic, also would help if you quoted the whole post and gave context. The insult I was referring to was a picture and caption in his signature

Except tongues can be a satanic thing. In the days I was involved in the occult I heard a few people speaking strange languages, and they definitely weren't Christians. I didn't understand what they said but it certainly didn't sound particularly nice, everything sounded very harsh and guttural, angry, aggressive. Hard to know how to describe it other than definitely not their native language and I think it's safe to say that it wasn't a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Since the devil can perform lying signs and wonders I don't see it as a huge step to conclude that demonic tongues are a possibility.

 

[Alithis]

Except that just because we ask "in the name of Jesus" doesn't mean we'll get it.

Asking God for a nice new Lamborghini Aventador Roadster isn't likely to result in finding a supercar in my driveway tomorrow morning, and adding "in Jesus' name" before the Amen won't change that. The idea of asking "in Jesus' name" isn't that we just add a few words to our prayer as if they were some kind of magic passphrase to unlock everything we want, it's more about asking for the things Jesus would have asked for if he were standing in our shoes. The only man who ever walked this earth who had the right to demand the kings come together and carry him into Jerusalem in a chariot of solid gold instead chose to ride a donkey, and a borrowed donkey at that. Why would he approve of us expecting the things he himself eschewed just because we stick his name at the end of our prayer? If anything that sounds like taking the Lord's name in vain.

God knows how to give us good gifts. It's just that sometimes we don't like the look of them. Paul didn't care much for the thorn in his flesh until he came to realise what purpose it served.

ouh really now . of course just because i did not type the words "according to my will " does not mean i was excluding it . it is the will of the Lord Jesus to give the holy Spirit to those who ask -he makes that rather clear . and the manifestations of the holy Spirit are clearly listed .. and by the unction of the holy Ghost Paul urges us to desire earnestly ALL the manifestations (gifs) of the Spirit .
thus since it is clear that we ask according to the wil of God -it is a given that he will give us what we ask . if we ask for fish we will not be given a serpent .
but some are implying that is what has transpired -and that is an opposition to the clear unambiguous word of God who said "whatever you ask in my name believing ,i will do it "

though it may appear hearsh to say .. it is eeerily similier to those who said the lord jesus did works by beelzzubub .. simply because they did not like the things he did . when we ascribe the things of God to the devil we walk on extremely dangerous ground .
How is it people can have so much faith in the enemies power to usurp the hearts of those who call upon the name of the lord JEsus in Faith ? is not God able to protect his own and be faithful to his own word .

 

[Alithis]

There was a video I saw once of a girl who attended what used to be the "Toronto Vineyard" (until even they cut ties with them for how outrageous they were). The "testimony" of this girl was that she was so "full of the spirit" that she had been convulsing for a whole week. As she walked up to the platform, the Pastor sort of had this "deer in the headlights" look on his face, not being sure what to say to this girl. But you'd better believe the whole congregation was praising and "amen"-ing (not a real word, I know) themselves into a frenzy. The first thing I thought seeing this was that there was something going on neurologically, and this girl had to be seen at an E.R. NOW!
Oh, but we can't speak against the "gifts of the spirit", can we...?

oh there was a video you saw - well my goodness that video and your impossible judgment of it( as you cannot possibly know the heart ) and that she goes on to call people to repentance in the lord JEsus in contradiction to what your suggesting - instantly cancels all the council of the lord god most high .im rather confident that if you go look her up you'll find she is absolutey fine .. do some research .you should do before making such swift judgment from the outer appearance based on the outer carnal understanding rather then Trust in God .

i mean what do you think such a negative 3rd party report would achieve? will i fall upon my knees and say oh now i see i am wrong to have faith in the word of God because look at this video clip?
where is faith any more . i see all to often is people doubting the word of God all over the place simply because it is beyond our understanding upon which we are clearly warned not to lean

 

[tango]

ouh really now . of course just because i did not type the words "according to my will " does not mean i was excluding it . it is the will of the Lord Jesus to give the holy Spirit to those who ask -he makes that rather clear . and the manifestations of the holy Spirit are clearly listed .. and by the unction of the holy Ghost Paul urges us to desire earnestly ALL the manifestations (gifs) of the Spirit .
thus since it is clear that we ask according to the wil of God -it is a given that he will give us what we ask . if we ask for fish we will not be given a serpent .
but some are implying that is what has transpired -and that is an opposition to the clear unambiguous word of God who said "whatever you ask in my name believing ,i will do it "

To be honest you seem to be shifting between two arguments here.

Paul is pretty clear that not all prophesy, not all work miracles, not all speak in tongues. We are part of a body so we aren't all eyes, we aren't all ears, we aren't all hands. If we ask for a fish we won't be given a serpent but to assume we will be given the exact species of fish we requested is equally absurd.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit are well known, and anyone who has the Holy Spirit should display the fruit. The gifts are given by the Spirit as he wills, not as we will.

1Co 12:7-11 NKJV But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: (8) for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, (9) to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, (10) to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. (11) But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

How can one read this passage and conclude anything other than that some people will exhibit one gift while others will exhibit another? I don't speak in tongues but every once in a while get what might be called a word of knowledge or a prophetic word. Most of the time I don't even realise the significance of it until later. I don't see any need to speak in tongues, and have no sense of God leading me to request that particular gift because based on where I am I don't need it. If I should need it I'm sure God will give it to me whether I explicitly request it or not.

though it may appear hearsh to say .. it is eeerily similier to those who said the lord jesus did works by beelzzubub .. simply because they did not like the things he did . when we ascribe the things of God to the devil we walk on extremely dangerous ground .
How is it people can have so much faith in the enemies power to usurp the hearts of those who call upon the name of the lord JEsus in Faith ? is not God able to protect his own and be faithful to his own word .

Sure, and appeals to fear aren't actually useful at all. We are called to test all things, not fall into line just because someone waves a few scary sounding words at us.

Of course God is capable of protecting his own, but he gives us free will to make our own decisions. He didn't stop Eve from eating the forbidden fruit, so why do we assume he will stop us from doing something silly if we decide not to follow the callings clearly laid down in Scripture to "test all things" and "test the spirits"?

If God warns us of something and we choose not to heed the warning why do we expect God will intervene to override the very free will he gave us. If I close my eyes, put my fingers in my eyes, shout "La la la la" very loudly as I walk backwards into the interstate will God protect me from the trucks?

 

[psalms 91]

No more than going to work speaks of faith in my provision rather than in God's provision.

It makes no sense to make this claim about doctors unless you also want to claim that anyone who has a secular job is failing to trust God to provide for them.

Yet I know people who rely solely on God to provide for them, I am not there and probably wont be but I know at least three that have lived that way for many years and God does provide for them

 

[psalms 91]

Except tongues can be a satanic thing. In the days I was involved in the occult I heard a few people speaking strange languages, and they definitely weren't Christians. I didn't understand what they said but it certainly didn't sound particularly nice, everything sounded very harsh and guttural, angry, aggressive. Hard to know how to describe it other than definitely not their native language and I think it's safe to say that it wasn't a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Since the devil can perform lying signs and wonders I don't see it as a huge step to conclude that demonic tongues are a possibility.

Of course they are just as faking them can be done but we are supposed to have the Word and an inner witness to judge these things, problem is what I said before that many are spiritually blind and deaf so they are easily misled or worse yet want to do away with the manifestation completely.

 

[visionary]

I found the opinion poll difficult to answer because they do not have a catagory which says that yes, I believe it is still in operation but only in extremely important circumstances that God needs to communicate ...

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

oh there was a video you saw - well my goodness that video and your impossible judgment of it( as you cannot possibly know the heart ) and that she goes on to call people to repentance in the lord JEsus in contradiction to what your suggesting - instantly cancels all the council of the lord god most high .im rather confident that if you go look her up you'll find she is absolutey fine .. do some research .you should do before making such swift judgment from the outer appearance based on the outer carnal understanding rather then Trust in God .

i mean what do you think such a negative 3rd party report would achieve? will i fall upon my knees and say oh now i see i am wrong to have faith in the word of God because look at this video clip?
where is faith any more . i see all to often is people doubting the word of God all over the place simply because it is beyond our understanding upon which we are clearly warned not to lean

The "negative third party report" was the former Airport Vineyard. It was a "testimony" video. The girl needed medical attention. She was still convulsing after a week and needed three people to guide her to the platform because she was stumbling and falling down. Have you ever seen someone who ha suffered nerve damage to the point they cannot walk? The girl could not walk on her own after a WEEK!

And do not lecture me on anything having to do with "outer carnal understanding". I was a member of the UPC for ten years and learned from some of the best about Pentecostalism and "gifts of the Spirit".

 

[Alithis]

To be honest you seem to be shifting between two arguments here.

Paul is pretty clear that not all prophesy, not all work miracles, not all speak in tongues. We are part of a body so we aren't all eyes, we aren't all ears, we aren't all hands. If we ask for a fish we won't be given a serpent but to assume we will be given the exact species of fish we requested is equally absurd.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit are well known, and anyone who has the Holy Spirit should display the fruit. The gifts are given by the Spirit as he wills, not as we will.

1Co 12:7-11 NKJV But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: (8) for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, (9) to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, (10) to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. (11) But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

How can one read this passage and conclude anything other than that some people will exhibit one gift while others will exhibit another? I don't speak in tongues but every once in a while get what might be called a word of knowledge or a prophetic word. Most of the time I don't even realise the significance of it until later. I don't see any need to speak in tongues, and have no sense of God leading me to request that particular gift because based on where I am I don't need it. If I should need it I'm sure God will give it to me whether I explicitly request it or not.



Sure, and appeals to fear aren't actually useful at all. We are called to test all things, not fall into line just because someone waves a few scary sounding words at us.

Of course God is capable of protecting his own, but he gives us free will to make our own decisions. He didn't stop Eve from eating the forbidden fruit, so why do we assume he will stop us from doing something silly if we decide not to follow the callings clearly laid down in Scripture to "test all things" and "test the spirits"?

If God warns us of something and we choose not to heed the warning why do we expect God will intervene to override the very free will he gave us. If I close my eyes, put my fingers in my eyes, shout "La la la la" very loudly as I walk backwards into the interstate will God protect me from the trucks?

i think you may be missing the fact that im replying in response to those saying "it is gibberish" or of the devil . as i already explained and testified ..the rsult of being baptised in the holy ghost and speaking in tongues ,for me, has been a greater revelation and comprehension of the word of god made flesh ..the lordship of Jesus ..the manifestation of the invisible god in the flesh .. and as such is well tested to be "of god " . because no spirit that is Not of god can say such things .

im not replying in regard to the discussion of "some or all "speaking in tongues as an ongoing gifting .

 

[Alithis]

The "negative third party report" was the former Airport Vineyard. It was a "testimony" video. The girl needed medical attention. She was still convulsing after a week and needed three people to guide her to the platform because she was stumbling and falling down. Have you ever seen someone who ha suffered nerve damage to the point they cannot walk? The girl could not walk on her own after a WEEK!

And do not lecture me on anything having to do with "outer carnal understanding". I was a member of the UPC for ten years and learned from some of the best about Pentecostalism and "gifts of the Spirit".

how about 1st party report .. i have experience the power of god upon my body so that i could barely function .. and im just fine thank you . its also recorded in the bible that when the glory of God filed the temple the temple priests could not stand . i assure you when the manifest power of the almighty god comes upon you your flesh will have no strength of pride ..you will find your face on the floor .

 

[Alithis]

I found the opinion poll difficult to answer because they do not have a catagory which says that yes, I believe it is still in operation but only in extremely important circumstances that God needs to communicate ...

well yes the options are limited . however the applications of the manifestations of tongues are only communicative in relation to the congregated church and guidance on its use is only given for that singular scenario . but applications of tongues is as varied as the tongues there are . ie tongues by the unction of the holy ghost in the prayer closet .we know .. by the other manifestation of dream, vision ,word of knowledge interpretation of tongues etc are perfectly effective in praying the perfect will of God .far beyond praying from within the bounds of our limited intellect and understanding .
that is to say , fro my understanding i pray for that which i know about .. an unsaved family member a friend in need a sick person ,all thing which i am intellectually aware of .

but in tongues we pray for things we cannot possibly know about ..of deliverance for an innocent child being abused some where in india .. for a village about to come under a disaster .. for a street preacher somewhere who needs protection .. the list is without limitation as much as the Holy Spirit is without limitation . .. of course any one may ask how do i know we pray for such things in tongues .. .. because the lord shows me these things as he does any one who asks for the interpretation of what is being prayed .
the thing is ..to allow the lord to activate this manifestation in and through us requires FAITH - faith which stands firm and sees through every opposing word of uncertain mankind

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

i assure you when the manifest power of the almighty god comes upon you your flesh..you will find your face on the floor .

Who says I haven't? You did see the part about me being UPC for 10 years, right? But, eventually, a man has to grow up and eat meat.

 

[Pelikan]

Hey Alithis -- Since you've got this whole asking and getting part down, can you ask for the gift of healing please? I have numerous family members that would benefit from that and convert instantly.

Plus the millions of people dying each year to preventable illnesses.

You could go to Africa and save millions. You'll be the only one there that can actually do proper faith healing. The only one in the world, in fact. At least one that's a genuine Christian.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lamb]

well yes the options are limited . however the applications of the manifestations of tongues are only communicative in relation to the congregated church and guidance on its use is only given for that singular scenario . but applications of tongues is as varied as the tongues there are . ie tongues by the unction of the holy ghost in the prayer closet .we know .. by the other manifestation of dream, vision ,word of knowledge interpretation of tongues etc are perfectly effective in praying the perfect will of God .far beyond praying from within the bounds of our limited intellect and understanding .
that is to say , fro my understanding i pray for that which i know about .. an unsaved family member a friend in need a sick person ,all thing which i am intellectually aware of .

but in tongues we pray for things we cannot possibly know about ..of deliverance for an innocent child being abused some where in india .. for a village about to come under a disaster .. for a street preacher somewhere who needs protection .. the list is without limitation as much as the Holy Spirit is without limitation . .. of course any one may ask how do i know we pray for such things in tongues .. .. because the lord shows me these things as he does any one who asks for the interpretation of what is being prayed .
the thing is ..to allow the lord to activate this manifestation in and through us requires FAITH - faith which stands firm and sees through every opposing word of uncertain mankind

Since the Lord is showing you in your head what you're praying for, then why even utter a sound? You don't have to in order to pray, you know.

 

[Hammster]

Not to mention that going to the hospital speaks of faith in doctors rather than faith in Gods healing. Doctors are fine and put here for a reason, to keep us going until we can build our faith to trust God for our healing

Doctors cannot heal everyone. I just had a friend die of cancer. It would have been nice if one of you all wouldn't have been so selfish as to ask for the gift of tongues and asked for the gift of healing instead.

But hey. As long as you are blessed.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Hammster]

not the only question i asked ..

I think I'm qualified to have a biblical discussion to at least examine any scripture you have to support your view.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Hammster]

Yet I know people who rely solely on God to provide for them, I am not there and probably wont be but I know at least three that have lived that way for many years and God does provide for them

I solely rely on God to provide for me and my family.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Hammster]

how about 1st party report .. i have experience the power of god upon my body so that i could barely function .. and im just fine thank you . its also recorded in the bible that when the glory of God filed the temple the temple priests could not stand . i assure you when the manifest power of the almighty god comes upon you your flesh will have no strength of pride ..you will find your face on the floor .

And here we go with the "you ain't as spurchal as me" argument.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.