Antihistamines for works.

[Josiah]

That is why we need antihistamines for works because so many appear to be allergic to them.

I know of no Christian who is in any sense whatsoever "allergic" to good works. I just know Christians who believe in Christ rather than self - and thus look to Christ's works for justification (narrow) rather than those of self. NO ONE is remotely claiming works are unimportant - Protestants simply believe we are not to confuse our words with Christs. It's really not rocket science, my Catholic brother, it's just those who INSIST on making self as big as possible and Christ as little as possible will twist, confuse, blend, mix up, gum up, spin things into such a confusing (and often Hindu sounding) MESS.



In JUSTIFICATION (narrow) it's CHRIST's works that matter since Jesus is the Savior. Not self. Those who want to strip Jesus of that role (demoting him to just a possibility-maker or yet another helper) will do all they can to evade this or creatively spin it.


In SANCTIFICATION (narrow) - the lives of CHRISTIANS - it's OUR works that matter - empowered by God, inspired by love - as we progress in Christ-like-ness (but never achieving it).


Yes, works matter...... CHRIST'S in justification, OURS in sanctification. Protestants don't confuse the two....



The problem is, those who reject Christ as THE (one and only) Savior (the sufficient one) will need to confuse/mix/blend Law and Gospel, Christ and self, Justification and Sanctification all to strip Christ of His role as Savior.... to lift up self rather than the Cross.

It's simple... and obvious..... unless one's ego insists on twisting it horribly so as to make Christ as small and irrelevant as possible, self as big and glorious as possible - trying to spin Christianity so that it's like the other world religions (just with a largely irrelevant Christ put in there, for no particular reason).



Pax CHRISTI


- Josiah



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

None of us can ever do enough works. Is this a contest to see if a Christian can one up the others in the amount of works? We don't look at our works, we look at our Savior and because we love him, we want to do works that helps our neighbors!

So far only one post tells how much the poster does by way of one kind of good works.

 

[Lamb]

Good works are only counted good because of faith in the Savior.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Good works are only counted good because of faith in the Savior.

And behold, a certain expert in the law rose up, testing him and saying, "Teacher, what must I do to possess eternal life?" But he said to him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" In response, he said: "You shall love the Lord your God from your whole heart, and from your whole soul, and from all your strength, and from all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself." And he said to him: "You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live." But since he wanted to justify himself, he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbour?" Then Jesus, taking this up, said: "A certain man descended from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he happened upon robbers, who now also plundered him. And inflicting him with wounds, they went away, leaving him behind, half-alive. And it happened that a certain priest was descending along the same way. And seeing him, he passed by. And similarly a Levite, when he was near the place, also saw him, and he passed by. But a certain Samaritan, being on a journey, came near him. And seeing him, he was moved by mercy. And approaching him, he bound up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. And setting him on his pack animal, he brought him to an inn, and he took care of him. And the next day, he took out two denarii, and he gave them to the proprietor, and he said: "Take care of him. And whatever extra you will have spent, I will repay to you at my return." Which of these three, does it seem to you, was a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?" Then he said, "The one who acted with mercy toward him." And Jesus said to him, "Go, and act similarly."
Luke 10:25-37

 

[Josiah]

And behold, a certain expert in the law rose up, testing him and saying, "Teacher, what must I do to possess eternal life?" But he said to him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" In response, he said: "You shall love the Lord your God from your whole heart, and from your whole soul, and from all your strength, and from all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself."

Do YOU, MoreCoffee?


Do YOU love the Lord with your WHOLE heart, your ENTIRE soul, with ALL your strength, with ALL your mind? 24/7? In thought, word and deed? Do you love all others as yourself?


Are you holy as God is holy? 24/7? In thought, word and deed?


Are you morally perfect as God is? 24/7? In thought, word and deed? In what is done and what is not?


Do you love all just as and to the same extent as Jesus on the Cross? 24/7? ALL? In thought, word and deed?


Do you live the same life that Jesus lived?


Do you have the same attitude as Jesus? 24/7?



You keep throwing around the Law here.... and never aim it at yourself, never tell us if YOU keep it, if YOU always hit the mark (holy) and never miss the mark (sin).



- Josiah



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And it happened that, while he was travelling to Jerusalem, he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. And as he was entering a certain town, ten leprous men met him, and they stood at a distance. And they lifted up their voice, saying, "Jesus, Teacher, take pity on us." And when he saw them, he said, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And it happened that, as they were going, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was cleansed, returned, magnifying God with a loud voice. And he fell face down before his feet, giving thanks. And this one was a Samaritan. And in response, Jesus said: "Were not ten made clean? And so where are the nine? Was no one found who would return and give glory to God, except this foreigner?" And he said to him: "Rise up, go forth. For your faith has saved you."
Luke 17:11-19

 

[Lamb]

For your faith has saved you."
Luke 17:11-19

There it is. Salvation by grace through faith.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There it is. Salvation by grace through faith.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved by him, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly explaining the word of truth.
(2Ti 2:15)

 

[Lamb]

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved by him, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly explaining the word of truth.
(2Ti 2:15)

You rightly explained truth by quoting the verse that shows salvation by grace through faith. Thank you

 

[TurtleHare]

Always so strange that when it's pointed out that scripture calls us to get off our backsides it becomes an "I don't need to work to be saved" issue, or "It's not me, it's God" issue, when these aren't the issues. Why Christians are so averse to the working out of the Christian life is beyond me. Work, and give glory to God in obedience. I can't recall ever being in a church meeting where a conversation was taking place about missions, or supporting a certain need in the community,and things suddenly turned to "yes, but who get's the glory? Is it us doing the work, or God?" It just doesn't happen. The work gets done out of thankfulness to God.

But, I suppose, Jame's book will be a thorn in the side of some for eons to come.

ImaginaryDay2 you wrote that you haven't been to a church meeting or conversation about missions where no one stopped to thank God for what's he's done or about to do for those needs being met that is done by God through mankind? Don't they pray to God asking for him to assist in whatever they are planning on doing because every church I've been to goes to God when we have a plan that we want to set in motion because we know we cannot do it without him.

 

[TurtleHare]

There it is. Salvation by grace through faith.

Hehe yeah when someone wants to call out others but then has it in his own posts where it seemingly contradicts what he's trying to defend is a ridiculous situation to be in, don't ya think? Who has an allergy to works in our Christian life since the thread is insisting that there are Christians won't aren't doing works but none of us are doing works for salvation because Jesus has said it's by faith and he's got our back! I'm kinda lazy so I don't think I could ever work hard enough to get my butt to heaven even so no matter what anyone thinks, none of y'all can do enough for heaven bound either. But do those works now that we have salvation up on us, well, now that the pressure's off, sure enough, we got this.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And it happened that, while he was travelling to Jerusalem, he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. And as he was entering a certain town, ten leprous men met him, and they stood at a distance. And they lifted up their voice, saying, "Jesus, Teacher, take pity on us." And when he saw them, he said, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And it happened that, as they were going, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was cleansed, returned, magnifying God with a loud voice. And he fell face down before his feet, giving thanks. And this one was a Samaritan. And in response, Jesus said: "Were not ten made clean? And so where are the nine? Was no one found who would return and give glory to God, except this foreigner?" And he said to him: "Rise up, go forth. For your faith has saved you."
Luke 17:11-19

 

[Rens]

nm that was my evil twin lolz

 

[Josiah]

IMO, the whole premise of this thread is false and absurd... NO ONE on the planet Earth says that it's bad to be good.

But our Catholic brother keeps throwing out the Law BUT NEVER applying such to himself, answering if HE keeps it (so if not keeping it makes us allergic to it, then so is he).

And our Catholic brother refuses to indicate if he is posting this Law in the context of justification or sanctification - and any attempt to address that is passionately evaded - meaning there seems to be some confusion on his part on that and thus confusion as to who is the Savior.


Again....


I know of no Christian who is in any sense whatsoever "allergic" to good works. I just know Christians who believe in Christ as the Savior (rather than self) and thus look to Christ's works for justification (narrow) rather than those of self. NO ONE is remotely claiming works are unimportant - Protestants simply believe we are not to confuse our words with Christs. It's really not rocket science, it's just those who INSIST on making self as big as possible and Christ as little as possible will twist, confuse, blend, mix up, gum up, spin things into such a confusing (and often Hindu sounding) MESS.



In JUSTIFICATION (narrow) it's CHRIST's works that matter since Jesus is the Savior. Not self. Those who want to strip Jesus of that role (demoting him to just a possibility-maker or yet another helper) will do all they can to evade this or creatively spin it.


In SANCTIFICATION (narrow) - the lives of CHRISTIANS - it's OUR works that matter - empowered by God, inspired by love - as we progress in Christ-like-ness (but never achieving it).


Yes, works matter...... CHRIST'S in justification, OURS in sanctification. Simple....



The problem is, those who reject Christ as THE (one and only) Savior (the sufficient one) will need to confuse/mix/blend Law and Gospel, Christ and self, Justification and Sanctification all to strip Christ of His role as Savior.... to lift up self rather than the Cross. It's simple... and obvious..... unless one's ego insists on twisting it horribly so as to make Christ as small and irrelevant as possible, self as big and glorious as possible - trying to spin Christianity so that it's like the other world religions (just with a largely irrelevant Christ put in there, for no particular reason).



Pax CHRISTI


- Josiah



.

 

[psalms 91]

It all matters, all of it, Jesus came to fulfill the law not do away with it, He became our eternal sacrifice if we avail outselves of Him and it is those who walk in the spirit and not the flesh that the law does not apply because they are fulfilling it already and are justifed by Christ.

 

[MoreCoffee]

'I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine-grower. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit. You have already been cleansed by the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. 'This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father. You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name. I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another.
(Joh 15:1-17)

 

[Josiah]

'I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine-grower. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit. You have already been cleansed by the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. 'This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father. You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name. I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another.
(Joh 15:1-17)

Do YOU do as He commands?
Do YOU love all people as Christ loves us?

Who is the Savior, in your view? Jesus - so that it's HIS works, HIS love, HIS righteousness that means justification (since He is the Savior) OR is it you - so that what's critical is YOUR works, YOUR love, YOUR righteousness that means your justitication? Or is it that there are TWO Saviors - Jesus and you, Jesus did what He could (He tried anyway) but He failed as the Savior and needs YOUR help to finish it and get it done, so that Jesus is PART Savior and you are PART Savior (you doing the part that actually means you get to heaven)? Which is it?



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Jesus said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Matthew 16:15

 

[Lamb]

And it happened that, while he was travelling to Jerusalem, he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. And as he was entering a certain town, ten leprous men met him, and they stood at a distance. And they lifted up their voice, saying, "Jesus, Teacher, take pity on us." And when he saw them, he said, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And it happened that, as they were going, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was cleansed, returned, magnifying God with a loud voice. And he fell face down before his feet, giving thanks. And this one was a Samaritan. And in response, Jesus said: "Were not ten made clean? And so where are the nine? Was no one found who would return and give glory to God, except this foreigner?" And he said to him: "Rise up, go forth. For your faith has saved you."
Luke 17:11-19

You keep using this verse. We aren't saved by works but by grace through faith. You even keep using this verse so you must believe that too.

Works are for the Christians to do because they are redeemed and reconciled to God. Our neighbors need them. God doesn't.

 

[MoreCoffee]

thrice used, right? And without the monstrous font size. Is that how you read the verse? quietly for most of it and in a mighty shout for the gigantic words? Is that how it echoes in your mind when you read it silently?

And it happened that, while he was travelling to Jerusalem, he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. And as he was entering a certain town, ten leprous men met him, and they stood at a distance. And they lifted up their voice, saying, "Jesus, Teacher, take pity on us." And when he saw them, he said, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And it happened that, as they were going, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was cleansed, returned, magnifying God with a loud voice. And he fell face down before his feet, giving thanks. And this one was a Samaritan. And in response, Jesus said: "Were not ten made clean? And so where are the nine? Was no one found who would return and give glory to God, except this foreigner?" And he said to him: "Rise up, go forth. For your faith has saved you."
Luke 17:11-19

You keep using this verse. We aren't saved by works but by grace through faith. You even keep using this verse so you must believe that too.

Works are for the Christians to do because they are redeemed and reconciled to God. Our neighbors need them. God doesn't.