Antihistamines for works.

[Rens]

thrice used, right? And without the monstrous font size. Is that how you read the verse? quietly for most of it and in a mighty shout for the gigantic words? Is that how it echoes in your mind when you read it silently?

It sounds nice like that. A bit too small though. It should have CAPSLOCK.
Then respond with
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!!!
LOL

 

[MoreCoffee]

Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. Of course, there is great gain in godliness combined with contentment; for we brought nothing into the world, so that we can take nothing out of it; but if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. But those who want to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and in their eagerness to be rich some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.
(1Ti 6:2-10)

 

[Rens]

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Grace-Law

 

[Lamb]

It sounds nice like that. A bit too small though. It should have CAPSLOCK.
Then respond with
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!!!
LOL
View attachment 711

The OP mentioned salvation and works don't earn our salvation.

If the OP would like to remove salvation from the the thread then works apply to the Christian as he lives his life day to day.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Antihistamines for works are a necessity in theological discussions because some folk appear to be allergic to good works in any theological discussion.

James says "faith without works is dead" and folk say "he really means that mere intellectual assent not faith". Or when he says "see, we are justified by works and not by faith alone" they say "he doesn't mean justification before God he really means justification before men". They say these things because they are dead scared of works playing any role in salvation and/or justification. In effect their theology made them allergic to good works.

The OP mentioned salvation and works don't earn our salvation.

If the OP would like to remove salvation from the the thread then works apply to the Christian as he lives his life day to day.

James says "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." [SUP]James 2:24[/SUP] And Jesus says "The Father removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit." [SUP]John 15:2[/SUP] and he adds "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." [SUP]John 15:10[/SUP]. Paul says "Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." [SUP]Philippians 2:12-13[/SUP]

Jesus teaches "Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?" And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." " [SUP]Matthew 25:34-40[/SUP]

Jesus said "'Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 'Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. 'Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." [SUP]Matthew 5:6-8[/SUP]

 

[Lamb]

You yourself said no church believes in works for salvation. Which is it?

James says "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." [SUP]James 2:24[/SUP] And Jesus says "The Father removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit." [SUP]John 15:2[/SUP] and he adds "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." [SUP]John 15:10[/SUP]. Paul says "Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." [SUP]Philippians 2:12-13[/SUP]

Jesus teaches "Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?" And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." " [SUP]Matthew 25:34-40[/SUP]

Jesus said "'Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 'Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. 'Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." [SUP]Matthew 5:6-8[/SUP]

 

[psalms 91]

Actually the Amish believe in works

 

[Lamb]

Actually the Amish believe in works

Maybe some but my Amish neighbors don't. They trust in the Savior.

 

[Rens]

Actually the Amish believe in works

Who doesn't? Only antinomianists don't. I never understand this whole discussion anyway. It's two sides of the same coin, works and grace.
Seems to me some people got allergic to works teaching because they have heard false legalism teaching or something, which I haven't heard much, so I'm not allergic. I'm more allergic to false grace. https://www.gotquestions.org/hyper-grace.html

 

[MoreCoffee]

James says "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." [SUP]James 2:24[/SUP] And Jesus says "The Father removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit." [SUP]John 15:2[/SUP] and he adds "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." [SUP]John 15:10[/SUP]. Paul says "Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." [SUP]Philippians 2:12-13[/SUP]

Jesus teaches "Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?" And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." " [SUP]Matthew 25:34-40[/SUP]

Jesus said "'Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 'Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. 'Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." [SUP]Matthew 5:6-8[/SUP]

You yourself said no church believes in works for salvation. Which is it?

What Jesus and the apostles teach is what the Church teaches. It always has been. It always must be so. Check the post you replied to. I quoted it above. It is what Jesus teaches and what the apostles teach. Is there something wrong with it?

 

[Cassia]

Ok so here's what I think ... NT scripture contains as much about the transition stage in James as it does in Psalms cause Psalms contains Holy Spirit teaching and David's humanistic wordage. James has been accused of the leader of those who turned Peter back to old school Judaism in eating habits, and Hebrews warns against turning back. So imo James is transitional.

So question is what are we responsible for? Well, actually we have a debt to pay which apparently we will never be able to repay in this lifetime. The debt is love. THE commandment to Christians. Christians have the commission too of bearing each others burden. The combination contains a loving helping hand that fulfills the law of Christ.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ok so here's what I think ... NT scripture contains as much about the transition stage in James as it does in Psalms cause Psalms contains Holy Spirit teaching and David's humanistic wordage. James has been accused of the leader of those who turned Peter back to old school Judaism in eating habits, and Hebrews warns against turning back. So imo James is transitional.

So question is what are we responsible for? Well, actually we have a debt to pay which apparently we will never be able to repay in this lifetime. The debt is love. THE commandment to Christians. Christians have the commission too of bearing each others burden. The combination contains a loving helping hand that fulfills the law of Christ.

The James who wrote the letter may not the the James mentioned in Galatians.

 

[Cassia]

The James who wrote the letter may not the the James mentioned in Galatians.

Who may that James be? It still doesn't change the wordage being old school imo or that love and burden bearing is what is pointed to in fulfilling the law of Christ.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who may that James be? It still doesn't change the wordage being old school imo or that love and burden bearing is what is pointed to in fulfilling the law of Christ.

I am not sure what "old school" means in the context of statements in holy scripture. Will you explain?

 

[Cassia]

I am not sure what "old school" means in the context of statements in holy scripture. Will you explain?

Old school as in Old Testament law wordage of commands given that are blanket statements. The bible does not command that works are salvatic. If it did that would disqualify some who are incapable. However love in action in response to needs does not preclude works. It could be as simple as a smile.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Old school as in Old Testament law wordage of commands given that are blanket statements. The bible does not command that works are salvatic. If it did that would disqualify some who are incapable. However love in action in response to needs does not preclude works. It could be as simple as a smile.

Aren't all of the passages I used earlier in the New Testament? I am sure that they are. Here they are again.

James says "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." [SUP]James 2:24[/SUP] And Jesus says "The Father removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit." [SUP]John 15:2[/SUP] and he adds "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." [SUP]John 15:10[/SUP]. Paul says "Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." [SUP]Philippians 2:12-13[/SUP]

Jesus teaches "Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?" And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." " [SUP]Matthew 25:34-40[/SUP]

Jesus said "'Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 'Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. 'Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." [SUP]Matthew 5:6-8[/SUP]

 

[Lamb]

But are the passages you used, MoreCoffee, speaking to those who already have received the gospel and believed so that they may have eternal life? Or, as Josiah has pointed out to you in another thread are those passages speaking of the life of a Christian in sanctification? Not salvation. Taking scripture and trying to apply it without looking at the context is done by a lot of people which is why they stray from the Savior and get the idea in their head that they have to work or contribute or Jesus can't save them.

 

[MoreCoffee]

But are the passages you used, MoreCoffee, speaking to those who already have received the gospel and believed so that they may have eternal life? Or, as Josiah has pointed out to you in another thread are those passages speaking of the life of a Christian in sanctification? Not salvation. Taking scripture and trying to apply it without looking at the context is done by a lot of people which is why they stray from the Savior and get the idea in their head that they have to work or contribute or Jesus can't save them.

James wrote his letter to Christians, he says so. Paul did too and he says so. Jesus' conversations were spoken before passion week so his listeners would be pre-Christian people; some of them converted to Christ later.

 

[Lamb]

James wrote his letter to Christians, he says so. Paul did too and he says so. Jesus' conversations were spoken before passion week so his listeners would be pre-Christian people; some of the converted to Christ later.

James wrote to Christians. Believers. Jesus' was speaking to the disciples in Matthew 25 (believers) and the Beatitudes Jesus was speaking to the disciples even though crowds showed up to listen.

Matthew 25 speaks of works that the believers do that they aren't even aware of. It does NOT state that they do it in order to earn salvation. The wording in your quoted scripture states, "come you who are blessed by my Father." Believers again.

So the verses are not about trying to gain salvation but living out our lives as believers.

 

[MoreCoffee]

James wrote to Christians. Believers. Jesus' was speaking to the disciples in Matthew 25 (believers) and the Beatitudes Jesus was speaking to the disciples even though crowds showed up to listen.

Matthew 25 speaks of works that the believers do that they aren't even aware of. It does NOT state that they do it in order to earn salvation. The wording in your quoted scripture states, "come you who are blessed by my Father." Believers again.

So the verses are not about trying to gain salvation but living out our lives as believers.

Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?" And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." [SUP]Matthew 25:34-40[/SUP] What is objectionable in the words of Christ? I see nothing to object to. He certainly was not afraid to praise the good works of the faithful. He didn't shrink back from attributing the blessing God gives to the faithful to the good things that they did for "the least of those who are members of his family". He said You fed me, you gave me drink, you clothed me, you welcomed me, and so forth. Yet even if the faithful were perfect they could not claim that God owed them anything for the sake of what they did. Nevertheless God rewards those who seek him. He grants the kingdom to the faithful because they were faithful in what they did as well as in other things.