Sinning no more

[Romanos]

When the topic of sin is brought up by some, the quote from Christ where He says Sin no more is usually something that is a stumbling block. How do you feel that we can work on this?

 

[MoreCoffee]

When the topic of sin is brought up by some, the quote from Christ where He says Sin no more is usually something that is a stumbling block. How do you feel that we can work on this?

By honestly and persistently trying not to sin in the matters that one knows to be both sinful and a habit that one has formed.

 

[tango]

When the topic of sin is brought up by some, the quote from Christ where He says Sin no more is usually something that is a stumbling block. How do you feel that we can work on this?

I see it as a counterbalance to "neither do I condemn you".

When the woman was caught in adultery and the scribes wanted to stone her (conveniently ignoring the law requiring the man to also be executed), Jesus invited anyone without sin to cast the first stone (varying the original law that required those who witnessed the offense to go first) and, when they all left, the words "neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more" struck a remarkable balance.

Today it seems people either focus on "neither do I condemn you" and end up with little more than lots of touchy-feelies that insist everything is OK and we're not to judge or cast stones, or focus on "go and sin no more" and end up expecting people to stop sinning and condemning them for every little failing. The issue of homosexuality seems to highlight the divide very well - some talk as if heterosexual expression is restricted to marriage but homosexual expression is little more than a free-for-all because we aren't to condemn, while others will give a free pass to overt adultery and spousal abuse while howling at even the hint that someone might be attracted to members of the same sex.

To me the balance Jesus struck says that he wasn't going to execute the woman for her sins (giving her a break from what the law demanded, even if only on a technicality as the man involved wasn't there to stand trial) but that she was to stop doing it.

 

[Josiah]

IMO, this is a Law/Gospel thing.....

The Law demands that we we perfect, holy, sinless. That is ALWAYS the demand of the Law.

The Gospel gives mercy, forgiveness. This is ALWAYS the fruit of the Gospel.

Both are true.

Fully.

 

[Josiah]

Law and Gospel....



The LAW:

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."

There are at least 613 laws specifically written just in the Old Testament. We think often of the Ten Commandments but actually there are many, many more just in the
OT
- and still more in the
NT
.




What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."




The word "sin" literally means "to miss the mark." In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."


The LAW has two functions:

Civil - Our relationships in this fallen world. This was not given until around 1400 BC when the first Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, with a purpose of GUIDING peoples' relationships. This is very much like our own national laws - they govern relationships. Civil law does not get us into heaven, it helps us get along with others, it helps our society work better.... if everyone kept the law, this would be a nicer place in which to live and die (and eventually go to hell). This applies just as much to non-Christians as to Christians - it applies to all.

The Law cannot save - and in this first use, it's not remotely its intention. Now.... true..... IF we kept all the law, we'd go to heaven (because we would not NEED God or Christ or mercy or forgiveness or salvation or justification or the Cross or the Blood - we'd not need the Gospel - because we'd essentially be God: divinely perfect, divinely holy, divinely loving..... totally, absolutely..... 100%....... 24/7...... but then in that case, we'd not need the civil law because we'd be perfect - in nature, in being, in attitude, in thought, in word, in deed.

We can NEVER achieve the Law (and we don't). Like Paul, we must confess that we are "CHIEF OF SINNERS" and that we are not - not - perfect as God demands.... but we CAN press on toward that. Why? Because Jesus was a joke and Christianity is wrong - we gotta save ourselves? WE save SELF via the Law - by being absolutely 100% perfect just as God is perfect? Nope. We press on toward that because our life and our world would be a whole lot better off. And because it pleases God whom we love.

BOTH of these functions continue after justification..... we are STILL called to be absolutely, divinely PERFECT, we are still called to live civilly in society; indeed Christians have unique commands: to love EXACTLY as Christ did, to LIVE exactly as Christ did, to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people, etc. The Law doesn't disappear or get watered down to nothing (as some Christians insist) when we are justified... but it also has nothing to do with our justification just because we are justified.


Theological - Our relationship to God. This is to drive us to our knees, to drive us to despair, to accuse us, to drive us to God's MERCY, God's HEART, God's FORGIVENESS..... to reveal the need for a Savior, a Cross. We CANNOT and ARE NOT what God intends and commands. That NO ONE is righteous..... NO ONE is good..... every other religion on the planet is fundamentally wrong because we cannot clean up our act and become what God mandates: absolutely perfect, absolutely holy, absolutely loving.... if anyone CLAIMS to be without sin (to always hit the mark), well.... to be blunt..... they LIE and DECEIVE themselves (but no one else - least of all God!). We are SINNERS! We MISS THE MARK! We are FALLEN! We need SALVATION, MERCY, JUSTIFICATION... IF we look to the LAW as the tool of salvation, ALL that happens is that we get slapped down - completely, totally, every time. (Note: THIS is why people want to water down the law SO MUCH as to make it unrecognizable, insulting God and the Law - all to make it so that we can boast "but I keep the Law - I don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Blood, no mercy - I got ME!!!" All as an enemy of Christ, a destroyer of the Gospel, all in an attempt to substitute the theology of Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism in place of Christianity - to promote THEIR soteriology which is "Self saves self although because of the TIME and HELP which God provides")

The theological use is to ask ourselves, "Am I all that God commands?" The only reasonable answer is: "NO!" And thus to flee to the mercy seat of God, the heart of God..... He who says "Yes" the Bible specifically says is a "fool" and is a "liar"





The GOSPEL


What is the Gospel?

It is the heart of God, the mercy of God, what God has done FOR us, the gifts from God, the promises of God - all in view of CHRIST alone: the Cross, the Blood, the Empty Tomb.


Galatians 2:21, "If justification were through the Law then Christ died for no purpose."

Philippians 3:9, "Not because of our works, lest anyone can boast."

Romans 3:20, "No human being will be justified in God's sight by works of the Law."

First John 4:10, "Not that we love God but rather that He loves us."

First John 4:8, "God is love."

John 3:16, "For God so (unconditionally) love the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life."

Romans 5:8, "God shows His love for us in that while we were enemies of God, Christ died for us."

First John 2:2, "Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins."

Titus 3:5, "God saves us not because of our deeds of righteousness but rather in view of His own mercy."

Romans 6:23, "The free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing but rather it is the free gift of God."

John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."



This Gospel also applies to our lives as Christians....

Hebrews 13:5, "I will never leave you or forsake you."

First John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, God is faithful to His promise and will forgive our sins."

.... and so VERY much more.... all entirely because of the heart of God, the unconditional love of God, the mercy of God.... in view of the Lamb, the Blood, the Cross, the Christ, the Savior.


The Law does not negate or cancel or diminish the Gospel.... nor does the Gospel negate, cancel or diminish the Law... both are real, both are true, both stand in ALL their force and truth... and they can only accomplish their task if we allow them to stand FULLY - not watering them down, not confusing them, not entangling them, not misapplying them. A Christian (one who is justified, narrow - by Christ ALONE, by the SAVIOR, via the Cross, because of the Gospel!) is still called to absolute, total, divine perfection, holiness, obedience, love... still called to always, perfectly HIT THE MARK, right on, every time, 24/7, as much as God does, in our nature, our being, our attitude, our thoughts, our words, our deeds: both for civil reasons AND so that we realize we fail and need Gods' mercy. We strive forward because we love God and because this is the will of God..... but we never fully attain it, we miss the mark, we fall short more often and more greatly than we realize. And so, thanks be to God, the Gospel remains (FULLY, completely, in all its' power and force and beauty): God is merciful, God forgives, because of the Lamb, because of the Cross, because of the Blood, because of His unconditional love, because of His Son, because there is the SAVIOR - Jesus Christ.


Pax Christi


- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Justice (understood by the stipulations of the law) and mercy (understood by forgiveness and compassion) are not at odds one with the other nor are they different sides of the same coin but rather one seamless whole in which the just demands of the law are mitigated by forgiveness and compassion. Mercy triumphs over judgement (James 2:13).

 

[Rens]

Live alone and don't get kids and pray the whole day. Maybe then you'll manage.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Live alone and don't get kids and pray the whole day. Maybe then you'll manage.

Become a nun

 

[Rens]

Lol reminds me of a thread of Gideons on cf who kept going on and on about not sinning and taught Alithis.
I made a thread: Yes!! It works!! I don't sin anymore!

I kicked the children out of the house.

If Adam had staid alone he never would have sinned.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lol reminds me of a thread of Gideons on cf who kept going on and on about not sinning and taught Alithis.
I made a thread: Yes!! It works!! I don't sin anymore!

I kicked the children out of the house.

If Adam had staid alone he never would have sinned.

Probably

 

[Rens]

When the topic of sin is brought up by some, the quote from Christ where He says Sin no more is usually something that is a stumbling block. How do you feel that we can work on this?

It's easy with sins that are not a life long habit. You repent and you never do it anymore.
Sigh but the rest.
Miss Gids teachings. The old man died.
And there are two preachers who have victory. It's walking in the Spirit. But they pray a LOT and they're mature.
The babies know their sins are forgiven. The young men have overcome the devil and the fathers have victory.
They don't say they don't ever do anything wrong, but getting where they are would be good enough for me. I'll look them up again. Great thread. I need this. Lord have mercy on me a sinner.

 

[JSales]

When Jesus spoke did he give her the power to not sin anymore?

 

[MoreCoffee]

When Jesus spoke did he give her the power to not sin anymore?

I wonder. I am a Christian yet I am not confident that I am able to sin-no-more. How about you? Do you think you are able to live a sinless life from now on?

 

[psalms 91]

1 John gives us the answer, it says that he who says he sins not is a liar

 

[Rens]

1 John gives us the answer, it says that he who says he sins not is a liar

But that's if we have sinned and say we haven't. It is possible, but not even Paul had achieved it. With the rapture I think.

 

[Rens]

https://youtu.be/YacUejbtQ6I

Dan Mohler on the sinful nature

 

[Josiah]

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT.....


Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.




Thank you.


Pax Christi


- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

https://youtu.be/YacUejbtQ6I

Dan Mohler on the sinful nature

Dan Mohler appears to be in the school of feel-good preachers. He says in the video (about 2 mins in) I don't even remember the last time that I felt convicted to repent of a flesh moral sin. I don't even remember. I know people say that's blasphemy ... He (despite saying the opposite) hypes a feel-good message. It's reprehensible.

 

[Pedrito]

The occasion of the woman caught in adultery (John 8:3-11) mentioned by tango in Post #3 on Page 1, has more to it than normally meets the eye (as it were). Not everyone understands its true significance.

John 8:3-5:
“3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?”

It was actually a test. The scribes and Pharisees were putting Jesus on the spot. They asked him a question that as they thought, no matter how he answered, they could dob him in (report him, get him into trouble).

John 8:6a: “This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.”

You see, around 6 or 7 AD, the right of execution was taken from the Jews by the Romans. (And only selected Roman citizens had what was termed "the right of the sword", meaning they had the personal power to authorise executions.)

So, if Jesus said "Stone her," he could be reported to the Romans as being seditious. If he said "Don't stone her," he could be reported to the Jewish authorities for contradicting the Law of God.

Jesus was in somewhat of a pickle. What was He to Do?

John 8:6b: “But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.”

At first the scribes and Pharisees ignored what Jesus wrote.

John 8:7,8:
“7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.”

Jesus’ words, apparently in combination with what He had originally written on the ground and was writing again, had the desired effect, but not instantaneously.

John 8:9: “And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.”

Her accusers gone, the woman was, according to the Law, free to go. Jesus had sent the scribes and Pharisees packing, with their tails between their legs.

==============================================================================================

One question remains: what did Jesus write on the ground?

 

[Lamb]

One question remains: what did Jesus write on the ground?

Scripture is silent so it must not be important.