Sinning no more

[psalms 91]

I will ask you, do you sin? We press for the mark of the high calling but even Paul did nto reach it and it does say that those who say they dont sin the truth is not in them.

 

[Rens]

I will ask you, do you sin? We press for the mark of the high calling but even Paul did nto reach it and it does say that those who say they dont sin the truth is not in them.

If you don't sin you may still sin. Not doing good is also sin. I can be friendly the whole day and not pray a few hours. Sin. Better to focus on Him so you get perfect in Love than on not sinning. It's the first command anyway. First comes love God and then dont do this and that.

 

[Sword7]

If you don't sin you may still sin. Not doing good is also sin. I can be friendly the whole day and not pray a few hours. Sin. Better to focus on Him so you get perfect in Love than on not sinning. It's the first command anyway. First comes love God and then don't do this and that.

read it again , i think i addressed it elsewhere or earlier .perhaps the other sin thread .

the greatest commandment (interesting its not the first in any list but is referred to as the greatest . ) has consequence . VERY GOOD consequence.

thous SHALT love the lord your god ... and the consequence of doing so is what ??? ..it is this .thou shalt not steal shall not commit adulatory shall not murder shall not bear false witness shall not have other gods (idols) etc . all these are a consequence of abiding in the greatest commandment .
one simply cannot love God and do something they know is missing or falling short of Gods righteousness .

or in every day speak one cannot love god and steal money at the same time
one cannot love god and hate someone secretly desiring their demise at the same time (holding a grudge does exactly that )
one Cannot love God and look at pornographer at the same time ..its impossible .they are serving another and not god so they are not loving God .
Jesus said so.are not HIS words TRUE ? he said you CANNOT serve TWO masters .you will love one or and despise the other .

I use this because it is a harsh stark reality that is EASY to GET the picture from .
for instance if a man desires to look at porn (which is adulatory -the very word is derived from Adulatory ) there are some steps he must take .(and he can take these steps in a moment of time )
first he must silence his conscience ,then shun the spirit of god telling him he is better then that and don't do it it leads to death .
then he must shun his wife his children and silence all thoughts of them and close of all compassion towards them caring nothing for how they feel or think , then he must go to the source he uses to view it and obtain access to it .-none of this can occur without his own will involved .

why would he take this course of action if he first loved God .

 

[Sword7]

Rens , no one lives yet perfectly . but the absence of willful sin does not equate to the presence of perfection .
nor does the absence of perfection in behavior equate to the presence of willful sin .

it equates to the level of love one has toward the one he claims to love follow and serve .

i am yet to ever observe any thoughts opposed to living a holy life in Christ who is actively serving Jesus obediently .
i Observe more and more that those who appear to defend the presence of ongoing sin in their life year after year are ,thus far to my observance , almost NEVER active in the work of the gospel with the manifestation of the power of god verifying it .

the talk religion ,they bridal not their tongue and their religion is vain talk. .i'm guessing ,based on some of the sentiments iv read here of late ,that i just trod on many toes

 

[Rens]

read it again , i think i addressed it elsewhere or earlier .perhaps the other sin thread .

the greatest commandment (interesting its not the first in any list but is referred to as the greatest . ) has consequence . VERY GOOD consequence.

thous SHALT love the lord your god ... and the consequence of doing so is what ??? ..it is this .thou shalt not steal shall not commit adulatory shall not murder shall not bear false witness shall not have other gods (idols) etc . all these are a consequence of abiding in the greatest commandment .
one simply cannot love God and do something they know is missing or falling short of Gods righteousness .

or in every day speak one cannot love god and steal money at the same time
one cannot love god and hate someone secretly desiring their demise at the same time (holding a grudge does exactly that )
one Cannot love God and look at pornographer at the same time ..its impossible .they are serving another and not god so they are not loving God .
Jesus said so.are not HIS words TRUE ? he said you CANNOT serve TWO masters .you will love one or and despise the other .

I use this because it is a harsh stark reality that is EASY to GET the picture from .
for instance if a man desires to look at porn (which is adulatory -the very word is derived from Adulatory ) there are some steps he must take .(and he can take these steps in a moment of time )
first he must silence his conscience ,then shun the spirit of god telling him he is better then that and don't do it it leads to death .
then he must shun his wife his children and silence all thoughts of them and close of all compassion towards them caring nothing for how they feel or think , then he must go to the source he uses to view it and obtain access to it .-none of this can occur without his own will involved .

why would he take this course of action if he first loved God .

Yes, but the way out is first love God I think and sometimes it's a hell warning. God used that too to get me back on track when I was in a sinful relationship.

 

[Sword7]

Yes, but the way out is first love God I think and sometimes it's a hell warning. God used that too to get me back on track when I was in a sinful relationship.

what ever it takes for each of us , he doesn't leave us in sin ,he brings us out, calls us to turn away from it , he "saves us from its rule over us "

 

[Pedrito]

The Post #22 on Page 3 is interesting.

In response to Pedrito's:
“So, if Scripture is silent about something, it is not important. Therefore, if Scripture is silent about something, that something (anything) cannot be taken on as doctrine.

Also and especially, if Scripture clearly weighs in, in support of one particular God-revealed truth, how much more should any doctrine to the contrary (say, based on "tradition") be rejected.

Pedrito thanks Lämmchen for making that clear to all of us.”,
the Poster replied:
“Do you often form doctrine around things that scripture is silent about? ”

Pedrito’s post above was in response to the Poster’s statement in Post #20 on Page 2:
“Scripture is silent so it must not be important.”

Pedrito believes that his response was logical and sensible.

==============================================================================================

However, is there not a clear implication in the Poster’s question above ("Do you often form doctrine around things that scripture is silent about?"), that Pedrito is in some way guilty of forming doctrine in the absence of Scripture?

Pedrito requests that the Poster provide clear, unequivocal examples of Pedrito forming doctrine around things that scripture is silent about, so that Pedrito can be made aware of this particular deficiency and amend his ways.

 

[Josiah]

It's simple.

God mandates that all be morally PERFECT (as perfect as He is).... 24/7..... from conception through death. Are you? Yes/No. If "No" then you are a sinner, one who misses the mark.
God mandates that all be HOLY (as holy as He is)..... 24/7.... from conception through death. Are you? Yes or No? If "no" then you are a sinner, one who misses the mark.
God mandates that all LOVE exactly as Christ did on the Cross, as loving as Jesus is, to all.... 24/7.... from conception through death. Are you? If not, then you are a sinner who misses the mark.
God mandates that we make disciples of all 7.3 billion people..... have you? Yes/No? If 'no' then you are sinner - one who misses the mark.



What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



"Sin" = "miss the mark." One sins if one misses the mark, falls short of what the Law demands. So, you "miss the mark" and thus are a sinner if you do not constantly/always have the same attitude that Christ did, if you are not constantly/always perfect to the same extent and degree that God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always as holy as God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always loving exactly as Christ is.




Thank you.


Pax Christi


- Josiah

 

[Rens]

It's simple.

God mandates that all be morally PERFECT (as perfect as He is).... 24/7..... from conception through death. Are you? Yes/No. If "No" then you are a sinner, one who misses the mark.
God mandates that all be HOLY (as holy as He is)..... 24/7.... from conception through death. Are you? Yes or No? If "no" then you are a sinner, one who misses the mark.
God mandates that all LOVE exactly as Christ did on the Cross, as loving as Jesus is, to all.... 24/7.... from conception through death. Are you? If not, then you are a sinner who misses the mark.
God mandates that we make disciples of all 7.3 billion people..... have you? Yes/No? If 'no' then you are sinner - one who misses the mark.

Then why did Paul call the Corinthians saints? They weren't exactly known for their holiness. He told them they all had to get married because of all the cases of fornication there. Hi saints!
If you have sinned you repent, ask forgiveness, get cleansed, move on. Don't expect to do the same thing tomorrow. Even your conscience gets cleansed from what you have done.
Peter was called clean. That was before he denied Christ.

 

[Josiah]

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



"Sin" = "miss the mark." One sins if one misses the mark, falls short of what the Law demands. So, you "miss the mark" and thus are a sinner if you do not constantly/always have the same attitude that Christ did, if you are not constantly/always perfect to the same extent and degree that God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always as holy as God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always loving exactly as Christ is.


.

Then why did Paul call the Corinthians saints?

Because ALL Christians are saints - souls forgiven through the blood of the Lamb. Two ways to be a saint: 1) Be equal to God in terms of morality, holiness, attitude, love and constantly/always doing all God wills - one who needs no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Savior, no mercy, no grace. 2) One forgiven by God through the work of Christ.

If you have sinned you repent, ask forgiveness, get cleansed

Thus being a saint.

But a saint, while forgiven, doesn't suddenly become sinless. He/she would only be sinless if such NEVER needed forgiveness, past or present or future. A sinless person is one who does not miss the mark but who hits the mark (not occasionally, not periodically, but constantly/ always). Perfect as God is. Holy as God is. Loving as God is. Fulfills always all the 613 laws of the OT and the many of the NT. A sinless person always hits the mark (and thus needs no forgiveness), a sinner misses the mark.




.

 

[Rens]

Because ALL Christians are saints - souls forgiven through the blood of the Lamb. Two ways to be a saint: 1) Be equal to God in terms of morality, holiness, attitude, love and constantly/always doing all God wills - one who needs no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Savior, no mercy, no grace. 2) One forgiven by God through the work of Christ.






Thus being a saint.

But a saint, while forgiven, doesn't suddenly become sinless. He/she would only be sinless if such NEVER needed forgiveness, past or present or future. A sinless person is one who does not miss the mark but who hits the mark (not occasionally, not periodically, but constantly/ always). Perfect as God is. Holy as God is. Loving as God is. Fulfills always all the 613 laws of the OT and the many of the NT. A sinless person always hits the mark (and thus needs no forgiveness), a sinner misses the mark.




.

Yes I still wouldn't call it a sinner though.
Paul never greets them with: hi sinners!

 

[Brighten04]

Yes I still wouldn't call it a sinner though.
Paul never greets them with: hi sinners!

We are in Christ, so we are new creations called saints of the Most High. In Christ there is no condemnation.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

In Him we are as He is.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

 

[Sword7]

Yes I still wouldn't call it a sinner though.
Paul never greets them with: hi sinners!

guess one needs to define ' a sinner " .
seems to be a ot of weird ideas around that .

i like to look at it like this .

two people come into a small shop . there is no one at the counter the first person looks around and he sees no one is there his eyes glance around at the goods ..there is the thought of how he could take some and walk out .its the nature of sin in us to even think it . but he chooses to not do so he remembers it is wrong it is not love ,he loves god ,so he does not do it .the love of god is in hom ,he knows god .

The send comes in and the setting is the same . the nature of sin in him gives him the same thought . but he does not love god , so he takes some goods and leaves .

which of these people "sinned " ?
Of course it is the one that STOLE .
Sin is the action we Choose do because of the state of our heart . whether in that moment we live out of the new nature of Christ in us
or out of the old nature of our flesh . paul's writes ,"do not LET sin reign in your mortal body -" displaying the freedom of choice that has been renewed to us through the blood of Jesus .

a sinner is one who chooses and DOES the action of sin . this is why so many people no mater what they profess with their lips , no matter how often they go to church , no matter how many prayer meetings they attend -If they continue to chose to DO unrighteousness . they will perish .

"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who Do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

 

[Lamb]

Jesus said that adultery isn't always about the action but also can be committed in the heart. Your definition of sin doesn't quite stand up to His which involves more than just the obvious.

 

[Sword7]

Jesus said that adultery isn't always about the action but also can be committed in the heart. Your definition of sin doesn't quite stand up to His which involves more than just the obvious.

yes he was explaining how in need of salvation we are . for we could not ,from that sinful nature, ever fulfill righteousness .
BUT and its a HUGE BUT .He takes away that heart of stone and gives us a new living heart .it is miraculous . and he put HIS spirit in us so that we now live from HIS spirit not our sinful nature but the new nature of CHRIST IN US . so we do not fulfill those evil desires that are in our flesh. if we carry on acting out of of our old nature then we , not him , are allowing sin to dominate us by our own choice .
but when we live after the spirit of God within us we will not fulfil the evil desire of the flesh or of the mind nor obey the spirit of THIS world .but we will do the will of the holy Spirit unto everlasting life this is why it is GOOD news .

i understand that there are many who either cannot
or
will not
believe in Jesus and that he does this. so that while we still have the ability to sin , we do not ever HAVE to any more .
but this is the wonder of what he has done for us and except we use what he has done for us and WALK IN IT and repent of DOING unrighteousness ,we will not inherit the kingdom of heaven . this message is direct scripture direct Gospel .

i wont hang about and debate it .
if you or any one else here has read it , then you KNOW .

too busy in preperation selling up every thing ,we leave in a month or so to carry on preaching the gospel full time where ever the lord leads us to do so .

you see faith - is acting as though what you believe is true .
hypocrisy is saying you believe on the outside but then acting as though its not true .

-end

 

[Rens]

nm God bless

 

[Josiah]

Yes I still wouldn't call it a sinner though.

I would. The Bible does. Again, a sinner is one who misses the mark. One is not a sinner if one always hits the mark - perfect as God is, holy as God is, loving as God is... with the same attitude and character as God....

Paul never greets them with: hi sinners!

He could have, but no - he is greeting Christian brothers and sisters in Christ - people who are NOT perfect but ARE forgiven by the Blood of the Lamb.... We are, of course, both sinners and saints: sinners because we fail to hit the mark, saint because we are forgiven, covered by the Blood, the objects of mercy and forgiveness.



Thank you.


- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

guess one needs to define ' a sinner "

Original Word: ἁμαρτία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hamartia
Phonetic Spelling: (ham-ar-tee'-ah)
Short Definition: sin
Definition: prop: missing the mark; hence: (a) guilt, sin, (b) a fault, failure


266 hamartía (a feminine noun derived from 1 /A "not" and 3313 /méros, "a part, share of") – properly, no-share ("no part of"); loss (forfeiture) because not hitting the target; sin (missing the mark).


A sinner is one with sin. "Sin" (hamartia) = "to miss the mark" "to fall short of the mark."
It's literally what the word means (same with the Hebrew word "sin" in the OT).
When an archery athlete in the ancient Olympic games missed the target, it was said he "sinned" - he missed the mark. A sinner thus is one who misses the mark. The use of the term in the Bible complies with the meaning of the word chosen for it; one who misses the mark.



We thus need to note the mark. And honestly ask if we have hit it - 24/7. Or have we fallen short of it, missed it? Bullseye or miss?

Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Here's what the Bible says about our missing or hitting the mark...

Romans 3:23, "For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."

1 Timothy 1:15, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners - and I am the worst sinner of them all." ("AM" - present tense; SAINT Paul write this as a Christian near the end of his life)


"Sin" = "miss the mark." One sins if one misses the mark, falls short of what the Law demands. So, you "miss the mark" and thus are a sinner if you do not constantly/always have the same attitude that Christ did, if you are not constantly/always perfect to the same extent and degree that God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always as holy as God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always loving exactly as Christ is.




Thank you.


Pax Christi


- Josiah




.

 

[Rens]

-

 

[TurtleHare]

"Sin" = "miss the mark." One sins if one misses the mark, falls short of what the Law demands. So, you "miss the mark" and thus are a sinner if you do not constantly/always have the same attitude that Christ did, if you are not constantly/always perfect to the same extent and degree that God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always as holy as God Himself is, if you are not constantly/always loving exactly as Christ is.

Amen to that, Josiah! Don't you agree that the very proud have a tendency to turn a blind eye in the mirror but can be the very first to call out others in this world of sin and yes this world has fallen. Turning a blind eye with noses in the air means they miss out on the opportunities Jesus places before us to love our neighbors because that person has loved self so much that he can't believe he needs to be loving or doesn't realize he isn't loving at all. And is that sin? You betcha! Isn't it somehow easy to love God and yet talk smack about our neighbor or turn a blind eye or even confess that we don't love him very much at all because he just might be right about his theology?