What is sin?

[Alithis]

If there's a conflict, you can prove it by providing those full names of ten (I'm ONLY asking for just TEN) living Christians who are perfect just as and to the same extent that God is perfect, holy just as and to the same extent that God is holy, loving just as and to the same extent that God is loving, who's attitude and life are exactly as Christ... I know you've claimed such for yourself but so far, you've refused to document that or even just get your wife to state such for you. You've yet to produce anything that documents that Scripture is wrong when it states that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one. Wrong when it says that "For all fall short." That it is wrong when it says, "If anyone claims to be without sin, he lies and deceives only himself."

Now, IF you taught that IN CHRIST we are both always saint AND sinner - I'd agree with that, but you always seem to deny the sinner part - and yet persistently refuse to show why Scripture is wrong about that and persistently refuse to give the names of even just ten (I've only asked for just TEN) of living Christians who never sin. Frankly, I think you are fibbing about this...... NOT that Scripture is wrong but that you are. Indeed, if you are right and some are walking around who are PERFECT, who NEVER sin in nature or being, in attitude and mine, in thought or word or deed, in thoughts/words/deeds done or left undone - then Christianity is wrong and your support for the soteriology of Bhatki Hinduism and modern Judaism and Islam are right: we don 't need a Savior, we just need enough time and help to get ourselves to where we don't sin - which you insist is what happens (you just refuse to give even one full name of ANYONE on the planet Earth - among 7.3 BILLION people - who are such).



Pax CHRISTI




- Josiah (who is no better than SAINT PAUL who referred to himself as the "CHIEF of sinners")






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i need not prove anything ..i already agree with the scriptures .. The Jesus i beleive in came to set us free from the power of sin the practice of sin and the penalty of sin.. my lord is able to do ALL things and with him NOTHING is impossible -he redemption is complete , not partial .. mighty , not weak .

 

[Lamb]

where ?

Josiah has repeatedly pointed out the scriptures to you.

 

[Alithis]

Josiah has repeatedly pointed out the scriptures to you.

Nope..he has repetedly presented a sentance out of context to the letter it is extracted from.

But if your going to make such a strong statement..expect others to ask for the direct scriptural reference upon which you base it.

 

[Josiah]

i need not prove anything ..i already agree with the scriptures .. The Jesus i beleive in came to set us free from the power of sin the practice of sin and the penalty of sin.. my lord is able to do ALL things and with him NOTHING is impossible -he redemption is complete , not partial .. mighty , not weak .

We're still waiting for that list of 10 (just ten, only asking for TEN out of 7.3 billion people, 2.2 billion who refer to themselves as Christians), 10 living Christians who don't sin, who are not imperfect, who no longer need mercy or forgiveness or justification or salvation or Christ or the Cross or the Blood or love because they no longer practice sin - they always "hit the mark" perfectly, 24/7.

IF your theology is true and Jesus means the ceasing of sin, then this should be extremely easy for you to do: just list the full names of at least 10 living persons who don't sin, never "miss the mark," obey and perform all that God commands. Why won't you produce that list? Could be it because you can't state even one name, not even one (out of 7.3 BILLION living people)? Well then either 1) Your theology is wrong (and Scripture is right when it says that ALL fall short, NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one, when it says that if ANYONE - that includes all people - if ANYONE claims -present tense, NOW - to be without sin, such LIES and DECEIVES self). Or 2) No one is a Christian, were all headed for hell.




Pax Soli Christi




- Josiah

 

[TurtleHare]

If he were among that group he would have raised his hand and let you know but we know the truth that we are all failing at some point and that is the reason we still need the Savior and continue to need Jesus. Pride is a big flaw and thinking one no longer sins is a case of the big pride!

 

[visionary]

If he were among that group he would have raised his hand and let you know but we know the truth that we are all failing at some point and that is the reason we still need the Savior and continue to need Jesus. Pride is a big flaw and thinking one no longer sins is a case of the big pride!

Believing in God's offer to help you overcome and following Him, is a reason to continue to need Him, but walking with Him would only occur if one remains humble, and probably wouldn't realize just how little you sin in His Presence.

 

[Josiah]

Humility, IMO, enables us to see how much we fail, how much we fall short, how much we miss the mark - how SINFUL we are. So that in His presence, we fall to our knees and cry, "Be MERCIFUL to me, the sinner." Rather than boast, "Look how perfect I am in the face of the Law, how I never fail, never fall, never sin - take glory in my holiness, righteousness and perfection (and God, give me what I've earned and don't be slow about it!)

 

[psalms 91]

All I know is that I need mercy andgrace

 

[Lamb]

I started this thread about a month ago because I saw that the definition of sin had been watered down which means that if they think of sin as being only limited to certain huge things then of course they believe they don't sin anymore. But if you see the full extent of what sin is, you realize that you aren't there yet.

 

[Josiah]

I started this thread about a month ago because I saw that the definition of sin had been watered down which means that if they think of sin as being only limited to certain huge things then of course they believe they don't sin anymore. But if you see the full extent of what sin is, you realize that you aren't there yet.

To boast that some or all Christians are "sinless" not only mandates that watering down (with OCEANS of water) or virtual elimination of the Law..... it also suggests the watering down (with OCEANS of water) of the Gospel (it seems to the Bhakti Hindu view that we don't need the gospel, mercy, a Savior - all we need is sufficient grants of TIME and HELP from the divine and our determination to apply it). It's an attack on both Law and Gospel.... and the very foundation of Christianity - that we NEED and HAVE the SAVIOR.

 

[Alithis]

We're still waiting for that list of 10 (just ten, only asking for TEN out of 7.3 billion people, 2.2 billion who refer to themselves as Christians), 10 living Christians who don't sin, who are not imperfect, who no longer need mercy or forgiveness or justification or salvation or Christ or the Cross or the Blood or love because they no longer practice sin - they always "hit the mark" perfectly, 24/7.

IF your theology is true and Jesus means the ceasing of sin, then this should be extremely easy for you to do: just list the full names of at least 10 living persons who don't sin, never "miss the mark," obey and perform all that God commands. Why won't you produce that list? Could be it because you can't state even one name, not even one (out of 7.3 BILLION living people)? Well then either 1) Your theology is wrong (and Scripture is right when it says that ALL fall short, NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one, when it says that if ANYONE - that includes all people - if ANYONE claims -present tense, NOW - to be without sin, such LIES and DECEIVES self). Or 2) No one is a Christian, were all headed for hell.




Pax Soli Christi




- Josiah

have already answered your question .. i cant give you a list of only 10 there are simply to many people who the lord Jesus has cleansed fro ALL unrighteousness to list .

now if you would address my question of . what sin is it that your referring to when you say you cant stop sinning ? but of course my question is rhetorical .for i dont seriously expect you to tell us .. but you and the lord both know. you'll have to deal within him on the issue .. not me

 

[Alithis]

If he were among that group he would have raised his hand and let you know but we know the truth that we are all failing at some point and that is the reason we still need the Savior and continue to need Jesus. Pride is a big flaw and thinking one no longer sins is a case of the big pride!

no one .. but absolutely NO ONE has said we don't sin .. not once, not ever , so what are you referring to ?

 

[Rens]

have already answered your question .. i cant give you a list of only 10 there are simply to many people who the lord Jesus has cleansed fro ALL unrighteousness to list .

now if you would address my question of . what sin is it that your referring to when you say you cant stop sinning ? but of course my question is rhetorical .for i dont seriously expect you to tell us .. but you and the lord both know. you'll have to deal within him on the issue .. not me

Cleansed from all unrighteousness yes, but I don't know one that never commits a sin. Thorben Sondergaard is set free from doing the same sins over and over but he doesn't say he never commits a sin, with which I think he just means utter a wrong word, whatever. That other guy who preaches it says he can't even remember his last sin, but he prays a lot. He doesn't say he never sins though. Paul hadn't achieved that goal yet he says. I know only that Smith Wigglesworth said he achieved it, he never prayed longer than 15 minutes, but 15 minutes hadn't passed or he had prayed and Charles Fitch, he fell back when he confessed wrong that he also sinned, because they all got mad at him, but then he achieved it again and shortly after died. The sister of Corrie ten Boom never said she achieved it, but ehm praying for nazi's who beat her up, just how she talked, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Alithis]

Humility, IMO, enables us to see how much we fail, how much we fall short, how much we miss the mark - how SINFUL we are. So that in His presence, we fall to our knees and cry, "Be MERCIFUL to me, the sinner." Rather than boast, "Look how perfect I am in the face of the Law, how I never fail, never fall, never sin - take glory in my holiness, righteousness and perfection (and God, give me what I've earned and don't be slow about it!)

false humility will lead you into pride that" oh your such a sinner your so humble" .. and that displays zero faith in the word and promises of god . for you say he saves you but you live as though he cannot . he says he HAS set you free but you live as though he cannot set you free .. you claim faith with the lips but live as though God has done nothing is doing nothing and can do nothing .. you deny his power .

my LORD and Savior forgave my sin , sets us free from the power of sin and works his righteousness in us , he gives us the power to over come as he over came . he returned unto us the freedom to choose to do so .having wiped out all past record against us when he makes us a new creation in Christ Jesus .

 

[Alithis]

Cleansed from all unrighteousness yes, but I don't know one that never commits a sin. Thorben Sondergaard is set free from doing the same sins over and over but he doesn't say he never commits a sin, with which I think he just means utter a wrong word, whatever. That other guy who preaches it says he can't even remember his last sin, but he prays a lot. He doesn't say he never sins though. Paul hadn't achieved that goal yet he says. I know only that Smith Wigglesworth said he achieved it, he never prayed longer than 15 minutes, but 15 minutes hadn't passed or he had prayed and Charles Fitch, he fell back when he confessed wrong that he also sinned, because they all got mad at him, but then he achieved it again and shortly after died. The sister of Corrie ten Boom never said she achieved it, but ehm praying for nazi's who beat her up, just how she talked, it wouldn't surprise me.

again dear messy .. i have never said people don't ever sin not once lol. its a distraction that some are throwing in . i have only ever repeated the scripture that those born of god do not CONTINUE to go on practicing sin . that doesn't mean they might not muck up .. but they wont carry on doing that same sin over and over and over .. because there is no repentance i that .

by the way its your fault im into TLR a bit haha you keep posting links to it .. im into the principle but was before i ever heard of it.

 

[Josiah]

again dear messy .. i have never said people don't ever sin not once lol. its a distraction that some are throwing in . i have only ever repeated the scripture that those born of god do not CONTINUE to go on practicing sin . that doesn't mean they might not muck up .. but they wont carry on doing that same sin over and over and over .. because there is no repentance i that .

by the way its your fault im into TLR a bit haha you keep posting links to it .. im into the principle but was before i ever heard of it.

You seem to NEED to redefined the Law (and thus sin) until is it nothing..... stripped of any significance...... just a minor "muck up" that God winks at because He is unjust and doesn't pay much attention to the Law. You seem to hate the Law SO much you make it little to nothing.... something you can keep and boast about. All to make the Gospel not much, Christ pretty irrelevant and ultimately a waste.



Sin = "to miss the mark" "to fall short" "to disobey"
In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, he thus "sinned." It means to fall short, to miss the mark. To NOT hit the Law - perfectly, absolutely, divinely, always 24/7. In our being, our attitudes, our thoughts, our words, our doing....


What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."


So..... do we always hit the mark - and thus not sin?


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, no, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:8, "If anyone claims to have no sin, he deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in him."


THUS, we CONTINUE to sin. We ARE sinful. Only your persistent attempts to strip the Law of any meaning or significance, to make it slight (if existing at all) is just your attempt to evade it. If the Law is believed and accepted (rather than hated and opposed)... and if we are HONEST, then we cannot agree with you that we do not sin (indeed, that we CANNOT sin as you have stated).... honestly MANDATES that we fall on our knees and cry: "Be MERCIFUL to me - the sinner."






Pax Christi


- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

no one .. but absolutely NO ONE has said we don't sin .. not once, not ever , so what are you referring to ?

You have posted REPEATEDLY, for months, that Christians don't continue to sin. If you want to say you realize the truth and take back the nearly singular point of virtually all your posts - GOOD, but it's been in MANY of your posts, in MANY threads, for MONTHS.

 

[Alithis]

You have posted REPEATEDLY, for months, that Christians don't continue to sin. If you want to say you realize the truth and take back the nearly singular point of virtually all your posts - GOOD, but it's been in MANY of your posts, in MANY threads, for MONTHS.

well that is what the bible clearly states ..so why haven't you listened to it yet ?

this is what i say over and over for months .... Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

so which part is it your saying not true ..i have never said a christian can never sin or does "never sin' but that they do not continue to do so over and over and over like an unregenerate unrepentant person who is not yet saved .

 

[Alithis]

You seem to NEED to redefined the Law (and thus sin) until is it nothing..... stripped of any significance...... just a minor "muck up" that God winks at because He is unjust and doesn't pay much attention to the Law. You seem to hate the Law SO much you make it little to nothing.... something you can keep and boast about. All to make the Gospel not much, Christ pretty irrelevant and ultimately a waste.



Sin = "to miss the mark" "to fall short" "to disobey"
In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, he thus "sinned." It means to fall short, to miss the mark. To NOT hit the Law - perfectly, absolutely, divinely, always 24/7. In our being, our attitudes, our thoughts, our words, our doing....


What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."


So..... do we always hit the mark - and thus not sin?


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, no, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:8, "If anyone claims to have no sin, he deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in him."


THUS, we CONTINUE to sin. We ARE sinful. Only your persistent attempts to strip the Law of any meaning or significance, to make it slight (if existing at all) is just your attempt to evade it. If the Law is believed and accepted (rather than hated and opposed)... and if we are HONEST, then we cannot agree with you that we do not sin (indeed, that we CANNOT sin as you have stated).... honestly MANDATES that we fall on our knees and cry: "Be MERCIFUL to me - the sinner."






Pax Christi


- Josiah

Nope that is not what the scriptures state of the new man in christ .. that is what the scriptures state of the unsaved .. whereas the born again is given a new heart and is given the nature of christ Jesus in the holy Spirit . we are made a new creation and become unified in christ .. we are in union with him .. everything he received everything he has done everything he has inherited we are made co inheritors of .. everything he has we have everything he is we are all of his promises are yes and so be it (amen)
he died that we live
he became sin that we be righteous
he was taken captive that we might be free
and then he overcame all and then took captivity captive and we live in his victory
not in defeat .
no one but you yourself can choose to commit a sin you know to be sin ... you cant commit a sin you know to be sin by accident .

 

[Josiah]

Nope that is not what the scriptures state of the new man in christ .. that is what the scriptures state of the unsaved ..

Wrong.

Nearly all the verses I quote where written by Christians to Christians.
SAINT and APOSTLE Paul states.... in the PRESENT tense..... "I am the CHIEF of sinners." AM (present tense) CHIEF (above all others) SINNER.
SAINT and APOSTLE John writes to Christians and says, "If anyone (kinda inclusive) claims (present tense) to be (present tense) without sin, that one is (present tense) a LIAR and deceives himself.
SAINT and APOSTLE Paul writes to the Christians in Rome, "NO ONE (seems inclusive) is (present tense) righteous, no, not even one."




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