Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

[brightfame52]

Made Righteous by His Faithfulness/Obedience !

All those that the Jesus Christ I know and serve, all for whom He died, in His obedience, and because He represented them [those He died for] by that obedience of His, which is also His Faithfulness to that Eternal Covenant which He became the Surety unto Death, by this He made them all Righteous. Yes, all of them have His obedience or faithfulness or faith imputed to them ! All those Christ died for stand before God, even when they themselves are but faithless, unbelieving, enemies, they stand before God with the Faith and obedience of Christ imputed to them ! Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

Made Righteous by His Faithfulness/Obedience ! 2

And so because they [whom Christ died for] stand before God with His Faithfulness and Righteousness and Obedience imputed to them, they are commensurately given His Faith, a portion of His own Faith [in New Birth] is given them by Christ;thats what Paul means that he lives by the faith of the Son of God, who Loved him and gave Himself for him Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In other words, the Life of Faith that Paul now Lives was given to him by the Son of God who now lives in him. For he as well as all for whom Christ died were in Him representatively when He as their substitute and Surety was Crucified !

The Faith believers have to believe on Christ comes from Christ to them, He is the Author and Finisher of it. Now understand this, as their Saviour and Head He gives each member of His Body, He gives each of them an alloted portion of Faith Rom 12:3

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you [Believers/ Christ's Body], not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Notice here, faith has been dealt to every man of the body of Christ. The word dealt ,greek word merizō:


to divide

a) to separate into parts, cut into pieces

1) to divide into parties, i.e. be split into factions

b) to distribute

1) a thing among people

2) bestow, impart

God imparts to every man of the Body of Christ a measure , greek word metron:

measure, an instrument for measuring

a) a vessel for receiving and determining the quantity of things, whether dry or liquid

b) a graduated staff for measuring, a measuring rod

c) proverbially, the rule or standard of judgment

2) determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit

a) the required measure, the due, fit, measure

a determined amount of Faith

Faith has been assigned to each or every member of His Body, though it varies in degree's as fruit is variable Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

However each member of Christ's Body who are made Righteous or Just by Christ's Faithfulness shall receive from Him Faith to believe in Him ! 12

 

[BruceLeiter]

You have been shown the error of your ways you just reject the gospel ,any gospel that does not include election, limited atonement is a false gospel

The irony is that I agree completely with your statement of the biblical truth but would show different parts of it to people at the times when they're ready for them.

 

[brightfame52]

The irony is that I agree completely with your statement of the biblical truth but would show different parts of it to people at the times when they're ready for them.

So you believe tulip is the Gospel ? Limited atonement, unconditional election and so forth ?

 

[brightfame52]

Made Righteous by His Faithfulness/Obedience ! 3

Please notice again in Romans 12:3

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


That God has assigned or dealt by allotment, to each person their portion of faith.

This corresponds with what Peter wrote here 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

So Just as Paul's words in Rom 12:3 is speaking of Christ's Body or Believers, so it is here with Peter,and the word obtained here is very similar to the word dealt in Rom 12:3, and it is the word lagchanó:


I obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots.

to receive by divine allotment !

And that is what Paul is referring to in Rom 12:3


Now understand, this is an accomplishment of the Death of Christ, that each man He died for or every man receives by allotment a portion of His Faith, Precious Faith.So being saved by Grace through Faith is nothing a Believer can boast about for its not of himself, but it is the gift of God, which is Christ, and He gives each member of His Body of which He is Saviour of Eph 5:23 through New Birth, a portion of His Own Faith, in that He comes and Lives in each of them by His Holy Spirit, empowering each of them to believe on Him, also giving them that right,with a portion of His Own Personal Faith. This Faith of Christ is called into believing action by the Call of His Gospel !

 

[BruceLeiter]

Made Righteous by His Faithfulness/Obedience ! 3

Please notice again in Romans 12:3

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


That God has assigned or dealt by allotment, to each person their portion of faith.

This corresponds with what Peter wrote here 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

So Just as Paul's words in Rom 12:3 is speaking of Christ's Body or Believers, so it is here with Peter,and the word obtained here is very similar to the word dealt in Rom 12:3, and it is the word lagchanó:


I obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots.

to receive by divine allotment !

And that is what Paul is referring to in Rom 12:3


Now understand, this is an accomplishment of the Death of Christ, that each man He died for or every man receives by allotment a portion of His Faith, Precious Faith.So being saved by Grace through Faith is nothing a Believer can boast about for its not of himself, but it is the gift of God, which is Christ, and He gives each member of His Body of which He is Saviour of Eph 5:23 through New Birth, a portion of His Own Faith, in that He comes and Lives in each of them by His Holy Spirit, empowering each of them to believe on Him, also giving them that right,with a portion of His Own Personal Faith. This Faith of Christ is called into believing action by the Call of His Gospel !

For once, I agree with everything you have said in this post!

 

[brightfame52]

For once, I agree with everything you have said in this post!

No you dont, u just think you do friend.

 

[BruceLeiter]

No you dont, u just think you do friend.

Yes, I do think I agree with you, friend!

 

[brightfame52]

The Blood of Christ !

Heb 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

This verse tells us that it is the Blood of Christ [ The God/Man] and His Death that is the cause of one leaving dead works [false religion] and serving the Living God See Jer 10:10; Acts 14:15

And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

The Blood of Christ will effect that Turn from vanities [dead works] unto the Living God.

Thats exactly what Heb 9:14 teaches ! In fact Peter writes the same thing in these words 1 Pet 18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The vain conversation the blood of Christ redeemed them from was false, dead work, traditional religion !

People sing it, but do not really believe it, but its power in the Blood of Christ, it actually effects a change of mind or repentance for all it was shed, God's Elect ! 12

 

[brightfame52]

Fruit of Christ's Death !

What is meant by fruit is the effects and product of Christ's Death for all whom He died, for He died an Covenantal Death Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament or covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Isa 42:6

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

And because of this Death certain effects must take place according to that Covenant. One of the things is that God will be the God of those Christ died for and they His People in a experiential way Heb 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Remember when Jesus said to Mary this Jn 20:17

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Yes, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ is their Father and God Eph 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Sure, God is the God over all mankind as the Creator , but not in this Covenantal sense through Jesus Christ !

This experiential becoming God's People is done by giving them a new inner life, implanting in them new spiritual principles, they shall be sprinkled with Clean water, taking away their natural hearts of stone, and given a heart of flesh Ezk 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

That New Heart, the word for heart leb:

inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

a) inner part, midst

1) midst (of things)

2) heart (of man)

3) soul, heart (of man)

4) mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory

5) inclination, resolution, determination (of will)

6) conscience

7) heart (of moral character)

8) as seat of appetites

9) as seat of emotions and passions

10) as seat of courage

Notice also Vs 25, God will cleanse them from all their Idols, for that's important in becoming experientially the People of God.

And because of this Promise, that is why all for whom Christ died turn from their idols as here and serve the Living God 1 Thess 1:8-9

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

Yes this turning from Idols here is a confirmation of the promise in Ezk 36:25 and its an effect, a fruit of Christ's Covenantal Death. This is the Blood of Christ, the Covenant Blood [Matt 26:28; Heb 13:20] producing its Covenantal Effects Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ or His Death, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 12

 

[BruceLeiter]

1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Cor 2:14-15

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

Both times we have them that are saved versus them that perish !

What makes the difference ? Is it Christs death or no ?

@Lamb



Thats false because its only partially true. Sure there are benefits the saved will receive in the future in the glorified state, but they received reconciliation[were reconciled to God] by His death in their unconverted state. Thats plainly stated Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Why is this benefit/blessing being overlooked, minimized or denied ?

In Romans 5:10, Paul is talking about the fact that we were enemies when God saved us through his gift of faith by his grace. That's why it's his grace, because we were his enemies at the time he saved us.

 

[brightfame52]

In Romans 5:10, Paul is talking about the fact that we were enemies when God saved us through his gift of faith by his grace. That's why it's his grace, because we were his enemies at the time he saved us.

False, they were saved by Hs Grace even while enemies/unbelievers. Faith had nothing to do with it

 

[brightfame52]

Delivers from Death !

Christ's Covenental Death, for those He did die for, He delivers them from death and the fear of it Heb 2:14-15

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

By the Blood of His Covenant Zech 9:11

As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

This speaks of deliverance !

All God's Children are given to know the reality of eternal judgment and death Heb 6:1-2

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Recall when felix trembled at Paul's witnessing, trembled of the Judgment to come Acts 24:25

And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

So thoughts of Judgment produces fear like here 1 Jn 4:17-18

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

But Christ's Covenental Death delivers from both. Again lets read Zech 9:11-12

11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

12 Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;

These are the prisoners of hope also Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Notice again the word Covenant in Vs 6,for that speaks of Christ's Covenant Death !

So all for whom Christ died shall be delivered from the fear of Death, the second death and the fear of the Eternal Judgment disappears more and more as the Eternal Love of God for us is more and more perceived and comprehended 1 Jn 4:11-20.

BTW, This Truth also exposes those who live their so called christian life out of a mercenary spirit of fear of loosing their salvation and reward, meaning they do fear eternal death if they do not walk the straight and narrow, this exposes them as being strangers to the Love of God, and shows they are trusting in their arm of the flesh, and not for what has been accomplished by Christ's Covenantal Death for God's People out of His Eternal Love for them !

 

[Lamb]

False, they were saved by Hs Grace even while enemies/unbelievers. Faith had nothing to do with it

Christ died for all the enemies/unbelievers. Faith is the way that God lets us know about it.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for all the enemies/unbelievers. Faith is the way that God lets us know about it.

False, He died only for the elect, of you teach otherwise its a false gospel

 

[brightfame52]

It Gives Faith or make Faithful !

Hosea 2:18-20

18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.

Its one thing for God to be Faithful to us, but in this He causes us to be Faithful to Him.

This Covenant puts the fear of God in our heart, a great spiritual blessing and the promise to such Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

God's Faithfulness is Promised here in that " He will not turn away from them to do them good" and He promises they also will be faithful to Him by they not departing from Him !

So the Covenantal Death of Christ provides Faith and Faithfulness to those He died for.

In fact that word faithfulness in Hosea 2:20 is translated faith here Hab 2:4

4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

And by that they shall know the Lord ! Again, another Covenant Promise Heb 8:11

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

When Paul writes to the Faithful Eph 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

He knows they have been partaken of the Covenant Promise Hosea 2:20

20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

It gives Repentance !

Repentance, a Change of Mind, thats one of the Blessings of the Death of Christ, to all for whom He died. All for whom He doth have Redemption through His Blood and even the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col 1:14

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Now, as an accompaniment with forgiveness of sins is Repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thats correct, they accompany one another in the economy of Salvation and God does not grant one without the other.

Thats why also He told His Messengers to Preach both of them together in His Name Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached[not offered or commanded] in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The word preached is the greek word kēryssō:


to be a herald, to officiate as a herald

a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald

b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed

2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done

3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers

The Disciples were to proclaim, declare openly something which had been done, completed, accomplished, effected by the Lord Jesus Christ in His Work, which were Repentance and Forgiveness or Remission of sins for Israel or God's Elect.

That is exactly what Peter Proclaimed here Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Peter was specific as to who these joint blessings belonged, The Israel of God Gal 6:16

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Folks the Death of Christ for all whom He died grants to them Redemption, Forgiveness of sins and Repentance according to the Riches of His Grace !

Yes, the conclusion is, if one does not ever Repent unto Life as Per Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Then simply put, Christ did not shed His Blood for them Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins/and repentance.12

 

[brightfame52]

They shall all Know me !

One of the Blessings of the Covenant Death of the Lord Jesus Christ for all whom He died, it is they shall receive a heart to know Him and the Father , to know God !

Jer 31:34

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I just Love the shall's of God, they mean its a sure thing !

Jesus stated that was His Purpose here Jn 17:2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus says of His Sheep that He was to lay His Life down in behalf of this Jn 10:14

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Heb 8:11

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

That word know here in Heb 8:11 does not mean a mere nominal knowing, but spiritual knowing. Its a causing one to know, turning the mind to. Its a experimental knowing/perception and includes Faith.

So its also a promise of Faith, They shall all believe in Me.

Jer 24:7

And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

 

[brightfame52]

By His Stripes we are healed !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

There is perhaps no clearer scripture testimony in the word of God, that does declare the Saving Effects of the Death of Christ, in fact the very word healed means :

to cure, heal

2) to make whole

a) to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

Now if all for whom He died [ The meaning of His Stripes] are not healed, made whole, converted or saved experientially so that they died to sin and begin to live to Righteousness, then His Stripes [Death] was a Utter failure. By Christ's Death [Stripes], its to effect a conversion, a New Life unto God. This conversion unto a New Life of Righteousness includes living for now on by Faith, resting in the imputed Righteousness of God revealed in the Gospel Rom 1:16-17.

So the Healing that comes from Christ's stripes is a New Creation inside of each one He died for, and by it they live in Righteousness and Holiness all the days of their lives Lk 1:74-75


74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 12

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's Glory Given !

All for whom Christ died, to the exclusion of not one, have been given by Him Glory, in the form of a Promise Note Jn 17:20-22

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus here also makes it unquestionably clear that His present intercession request did not just pertain to those who were at that specific time hearing Him while in His immediate presence [His Chosen Disciples excluding judas], but for them also who shall believe o Him through their Word or their Testimony; and so He goes on to say of them ALL Vs 22

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

That is, He has given it to His Chosen disciples, judas the son of perdition not included, and secondly, all whom shall believe on Him through their word of Testimony, whether by their literal preaching or by their present epistles and letters. This is the same Glory Paul writes about in this chain of predetermined events Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

By Christ's actual statement that He has given [Perfect Tense] it to them already, though it has not yet come to past in its completion and perfection, they cannot be without it, or He will be found a liar, but the performance of it is sure, based upon the Word of Him that cannot lie. This was Glory contingent upon His Death for them Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

All whom He tasted death for [in behalf of] every man of them, brings them to Glory, which is the fruit of His Sufferings and Death for them !