Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Rom 8:32; Jn 3:16

Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Jn 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


If God gave His Son in Death for Some, then also with Him were given them , all things freely !

Now what are these all things given freely with Him ? Lets read 2 Pet 1:3

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The all things that accompany the giving of Christ to those He was given in behalf of, consiteth in,All things that pertaineth to Life[Spiritual] and Godliness !

The first thing He gives them is Life Spiritually. When Christ was given, to those He was given in behalf of, to them also is freely given Life, Spiritual. Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life[Spiritual] unto the world.

Jn 5:21

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

That word quickeneth is zōopoieō:


to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening[life giving] spirit.

All whom God gave Christ unto in Death, with Him, Gives them Life, to cause to be made alive unto God !

He gave them Justification of Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Next,He gives them Godly Repentance unto Salvation 2 Cor 7:9-10

9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

That word godly is key. Godly Repentance accompanies Salvation, it accompanies Spiritual Life out of the Spirit of God.

Christ gives Repentance as Saviour Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

This confirms that with Him, God gives all things. Repentance to Life Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

He also with Him gives them Faith to believe in Him. Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

There can be no godliness without Faith. For the Just [Justified] shall live by Faith All these are things that accompany Salvation, which is all in the giving of Christ Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

If Faith, Godly Repentance, are not sooner or later manifested in our lives, then there is no evidence or proof that Christ died or was given for us, as in Rom 8:32 and John 3:16, because with Him is also given all things that pertain to Life and Godliness for the Glory of God through Him ! 12
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
He is the Author of our Salvation/ Obedience !


For all whom He died, Christ is the Author of their Salvation, thats why they are obeying Him Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey[or are obeying] him;

And so He is the Author of their Faith Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

He is the Author of the Obedience of Faith, like with Abraham the Father of the Faithful Heb 11:8

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Christ is the Author of Abraham's obedience of Faith here !

So Christ, for everyone He died, is the Author, the Causer of their Conversion experience whereby they begin to live by obedient faith, as does all the seed of Abraham Heb 11:8 all the True Heirs are called the same way Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Understand, that Both in Heb 11:8 and Heb 9:15 its a Divine Call unto the same Eternal Inheritance. The Eternal Inheritance in Heb 9:15 is the equivalent to the Everlasting Canaan Land that was Promised Abraham and his seed here Gen 17:5-8

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The promise Eternal Inheritance was not given to Abraham and his physical seed ethnic isreal, but to Abraham as an Spiritual man of Faith and his Spiritual seed of Faith, comprised of men and women of all Nations Vs 5. Abraham's physical seed was only a type and shadow, His True descendants related to him in regards to this promise is through His spiritual seed Christ and all who belong to Him Gal 3:16,29

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And all of this seed of promise, have Christ as the Author of their Salvation and Obedience of Faith !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Redeemed unto Service !

Not only did Christ's Blood alone redeem us from all Iniquity if He died for us Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

But its also responsible for providing us a life of Good Works and or Spiritual Service unto God, Titus 2:14; Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Being made a Kingdom of Priests [Spiritual Service] denotes God Glorifying Works of Service, again Spiritual Services.

1 Pet 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It gives the Victory !

1 Cor 15:57

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

All for whom Christ died, He causes them to be overcomer's, they are the overcomer's.

The word victory nikos:

to utterly vanquish

Its also connected with the word nikaō:


to conquer

a) to carry off the victory, come off victorious

1) of Christ, victorious over all His foes

2) of Christians, that hold fast their faith even unto death against the power of their foes, and temptations and persecutions

3) when one is arraigned or goes to law, to win the case, maintain one's cause

Since Christ by His Death was victorious over all His Foes, its the same as they were since He was and is the Head of them He died for. His Victorious Death was not for Him as a Private Individual, so His Victory or Overcoming is not for Him as an Private Individual.

So scriptures like these where the word overcome is used as here Rev 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

That applies to them He died for, they overcome by Him 1 Cor 15:57

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory/overcoming through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 2:11

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

He has abolished Death for all whom He died !2 Tim 1:9-10

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Rev 2:17

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

God has already with Him given us all things Rom 8:31-32

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

He gives us with Christ, if He died for us, the Victory and all the overcoming Promises we have rehearsed in Rev 2-3 ! 12
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It makes alive !

Many in false religion deny the life giving effects of Christ's Death, unto all for whom He died. For simply put, He died in order for them to live unto God ! 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Here we have a Truth given that Christ died for all, that He died for, gave His life for Eph 5:25, but what is seriously neglected, is that by His Death for all, its concluded, that all died with Him, meaning, that in His Death for them, God legally declares that they have died too n His Death. Now understand this, its this Truth that exposes the false teaching of those who say that Christ's Death was merely a sacrifice for sin, for that is only a half truth, but not only was it that, it was also substitutionary, vicarious, in that in Him, all for whom He died, died as a result of God's law and Justice against their sins, being now satisfied against their persons, as it was satisfied in His Person. Its like saying that through Him, they have all personally paid the penalty of all their sins, past, present and future, and now its nothing left for them but to be given a New Life, to start afresh, which New Life is granted by New Birth, becoming a New Creation, so it comes into fruition as to the purpose Christ died for them, that they may live [spiritually] not unto themselves, but for Him that for their sakes, and in their stead, died and was raised.Its by this Resurrection they are begotten again unto a New Life. 1 Pet 1:3. The word begotten again in the original is anagennao and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

This New Life is Granted because that old life of sin against God's law and Justice is dead, and so Paul writes here Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

They have died to the Law by the Body of Christ [His Vicarious Death],to the same thing in 2 Cor 5:14, that they should be married to another [The Son of God] or not to live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them and rose again !

Peter also writes to the purport as the result of His Death 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness[ By a New Life]: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Christ's Death accomplished this New Life for all whom He died, it makes them alive to God.

Rom 6:11


Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12
 

BruceLeiter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2024
Messages
383
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It makes alive !

Many in false religion deny the life giving effects of Christ's Death, unto all for whom He died. For simply put, He died in order for them to live unto God ! 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Here we have a Truth given that Christ died for all, that He died for, gave His life for Eph 5:25, but what is seriously neglected, is that by His Death for all, its concluded, that all died with Him, meaning, that in His Death for them, God legally declares that they have died too n His Death. Now understand this, its this Truth that exposes the false teaching of those who say that Christ's Death was merely a sacrifice for sin, for that is only a half truth, but not only was it that, it was also substitutionary, vicarious, in that in Him, all for whom He died, died as a result of God's law and Justice against their sins, being now satisfied against their persons, as it was satisfied in His Person. Its like saying that through Him, they have all personally paid the penalty of all their sins, past, present and future, and now its nothing left for them but to be given a New Life, to start afresh, which New Life is granted by New Birth, becoming a New Creation, so it comes into fruition as to the purpose Christ died for them, that they may live [spiritually] not unto themselves, but for Him that for their sakes, and in their stead, died and was raised.Its by this Resurrection they are begotten again unto a New Life. 1 Pet 1:3. The word begotten again in the original is anagennao and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

This New Life is Granted because that old life of sin against God's law and Justice is dead, and so Paul writes here Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

They have died to the Law by the Body of Christ [His Vicarious Death],to the same thing in 2 Cor 5:14, that they should be married to another [The Son of God] or not to live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them and rose again !

Peter also writes to the purport as the result of His Death 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness[ By a New Life]: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Christ's Death accomplished this New Life for all whom He died, it makes them alive to God.

Rom 6:11


Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12
You have not explained your charge that makes such religion false. That's a drastic statement to make, since they seem to have a different emphasis on biblical truth from yours.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
You have not explained your charge that makes such religion false. That's a drastic statement to make, since they seem to have a different emphasis on biblical truth from yours.
There's nothing else for me to explain I'm explaining my point of view which explains why I say what I said! You just making an excuse to evade what I've been explaining!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Forgiven to make alive !

Col 2:13-14

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Who is it that hath been quickened ? Why its them only who has been forgiven of all their trespasses;Yes thats right, for they were not quickened to have their trespasses forgiven, but since they were already forgiven, they had to be quickened or made to live or made alive !

Now how and when were they forgiven, why it was at the Cross, where Christ was victorious over their sins and the law,where He made a show of them openly, of which they can never be charged against us or Him again, neither can they condemn us or Him again, and this goes for all transgressions, past, present and future, and so it behooves Christ as their Saviour to give unto them He died for, a communication of the Knowledge of the remission of their sins Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 

BruceLeiter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2024
Messages
383
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Forgiven to make alive !

Col 2:13-14

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Who is it that hath been quickened ? Why its them only who has been forgiven of all their trespasses;Yes thats right, for they were not quickened to have their trespasses forgiven, but since they were already forgiven, they had to be quickened or made to live or made alive !

Now how and when were they forgiven, why it was at the Cross, where Christ was victorious over their sins and the law,where He made a show of them openly, of which they can never be charged against us or Him again, neither can they condemn us or Him again, and this goes for all transgressions, past, present and future, and so it behooves Christ as their Saviour to give unto them He died for, a communication of the Knowledge of the remission of their sins Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
I don't see any of your statements that we disagree on.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Accomplishments of Christ's Death for those He died for!

When we have been given a good understanding of the scripture by the Author of it, the Holy Spirit, who is promised to Christ's Redeemed Church, and promised to lead it [every member of it] into all Truth relevant for Faith and Practice Jn 16:13; 1 Jn 2:20,27, then that Christ did not lay down His Life for all men without exception, but for the Sheep Jn 10:11-15, it is clearly obvious by realizing the accomplishments and effects it gives and bestows upon them He surely died in behalf of, now understand this ye who are against Christ, all them Christ died for, tasted death for Heb 2:9, He offered Himself as a sacrifice for, for His Death, an one offering for their sins, and by this fact we shall know that it was not an offering for all men without exception, because all for whom this sacrifice was offered, are sanctified and perfected by it in God's Reckoning Heb 10:10,14, also having through it Justification from or remission of all sins, and also by this sacrifice, their sins and iniquities will never be remembered again in a manner of condemnation and eternal judgment, but that this is not true of all individuals without exception is evident from these scenarios yet imminent Matt 25:41; Rev 20:11-15
 

BruceLeiter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2024
Messages
383
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Accomplishments of Christ's Death for those He died for!

When we have been given a good understanding of the scripture by the Author of it, the Holy Spirit, who is promised to Christ's Redeemed Church, and promised to lead it [every member of it] into all Truth relevant for Faith and Practice Jn 16:13; 1 Jn 2:20,27, then that Christ did not lay down His Life for all men without exception, but for the Sheep Jn 10:11-15, it is clearly obvious by realizing the accomplishments and effects it gives and bestows upon them He surely died in behalf of, now understand this ye who are against Christ, all them Christ died for, tasted death for Heb 2:9, He offered Himself as a sacrifice for, for His Death, an one offering for their sins, and by this fact we shall know that it was not an offering for all men without exception, because all for whom this sacrifice was offered, are sanctified and perfected by it in God's Reckoning Heb 10:10,14, also having through it Justification from or remission of all sins, and also by this sacrifice, their sins and iniquities will never be remembered again in a manner of condemnation and eternal judgment, but that this is not true of all individuals without exception is evident from these scenarios yet imminent Matt 25:41; Rev 20:11-15
Agreed!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Sanctification inwardly !

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

All for whom Christ died, by it [ His Death] it was to provide a inward sanctification as well, not only are they sanctified in the Divine Purpose of God as was Jeremiah 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

BTW this sanctification applies to all the foreknown People of God Rom 11:2; Rom 8:29, but His Death communicates an inward sanctification which is consistent with the sanctification in His Purpose, hence by His Blood / Death, all for whom He died has their conscious purged from dead works, to serve the Living God Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Notice what the Blood of Christ is said to do, to purge our conscience. The word purge is the word καθαρίζω and means:


I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.

And the word conscience suneidésis:

the conscience, a persisting notion.

properly, joint-knowing, i.e. conscience which joins moral and spiritual consciousness as part of being created in the divine image. Accordingly, all people have this God-given capacity to know right from wrong because each is a free moral agent

The conscience is part of the inward man, and the blood of Christ is said to cleanse it.

Cleanse it from what ? Dead Works ! What are Dead Works ? Religious works performed by dead men, dead spiritually ! Its religion without God given Faith. Its not worshiping God in Spirit and in Truth as Per Jn 4:23-24

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Well, Christ's Blood provides God with those type of worshippers that God the Father seeketh such to Worship Him!

The Blood of Christ sets apart God's People experientially, from dead men religion which is Idolatry. It redeems them from a vain religious life received by tradition of our fathers 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Thats dead works also of Heb 9:14 this vain[devoid of truth] conversation received by tradition.

Now understand this, if each person for whom Christ died, shed His Blood, does not experience this conversion, this Sanctification from dead works, unto serving [worship] of the True and Living God, then His Blood has lost its Value and Purpose, it has miserably failed the Divine Purpose !

But I know that it will, to the Glory of God ! 13
 

Frankj

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2024
Messages
160
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Not people Christ died for, He took it away and its forgiven them
Apologies for butting in here, but I'm curious about whom you see as being the people Christ died for.

(I ask not to be critical of anyone, but because I've heard very many different things said by different people about this and I want to view your answer in context with how you see it to that of others with a different context)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
All for whom Christ died and rose again, all of them by the purpose of God, did exist in Him by Purpose and Representation, even when He sat down in heavenly places as Per Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This even though they in and of themselves may not have yet been born sinners in the flesh and then afterwards been born again, none of that has to occur for them to be risen together with Christ. In fact the Resurrection of Christ from the dead was their First Resurrection Rev 20:6

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection, or the chief one is that of Christ Himself from the dead as the Head of the Body, His Church Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Notice that this Resurrection constitutes them Priests of God, notice 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

And remember that these were those who had been begotten again how ? By the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Apologies for butting in here, but I'm curious about whom you see as being the people Christ died for.

(I ask not to be critical of anyone, but because I've heard very many different things said by different people about this and I want to view your answer in context with how you see it to that of others with a different context)
His Sheep Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
 

BruceLeiter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2024
Messages
383
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Sanctification inwardly !

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

All for whom Christ died, by it [ His Death] it was to provide a inward sanctification as well, not only are they sanctified in the Divine Purpose of God as was Jeremiah 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

BTW this sanctification applies to all the foreknown People of God Rom 11:2; Rom 8:29, but His Death communicates an inward sanctification which is consistent with the sanctification in His Purpose, hence by His Blood / Death, all for whom He died has their conscious purged from dead works, to serve the Living God Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Notice what the Blood of Christ is said to do, to purge our conscience. The word purge is the word καθαρίζω and means:


I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.

And the word conscience suneidésis:

the conscience, a persisting notion.

properly, joint-knowing, i.e. conscience which joins moral and spiritual consciousness as part of being created in the divine image. Accordingly, all people have this God-given capacity to know right from wrong because each is a free moral agent

The conscience is part of the inward man, and the blood of Christ is said to cleanse it.

Cleanse it from what ? Dead Works ! What are Dead Works ? Religious works performed by dead men, dead spiritually ! Its religion without God given Faith. Its not worshiping God in Spirit and in Truth as Per Jn 4:23-24

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Well, Christ's Blood provides God with those type of worshippers that God the Father seeketh such to Worship Him!

The Blood of Christ sets apart God's People experientially, from dead men religion which is Idolatry. It redeems them from a vain religious life received by tradition of our fathers 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Thats dead works also of Heb 9:14 this vain[devoid of truth] conversation received by tradition.

Now understand this, if each person for whom Christ died, shed His Blood, does not experience this conversion, this Sanctification from dead works, unto serving [worship] of the True and Living God, then His Blood has lost its Value and Purpose, it has miserably failed the Divine Purpose !

But I know that it will, to the Glory of God ! 13
Now that I look at your two concluding paragraphs, I disagree that everyone will be saved, if that's what you are saying. The purpose of God is to save everyone he loved and chose before creation began with Jesus' shed blood. As a result, that purpose won't miserably fail "the Divine Purpose!"
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,313
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It makes them Rich !

2 Cor 8:9

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that or in order that ye through his poverty might be rich.

This is an express purpose of His Death, or His becoming poor [Phil 2:5-8] it makes those He died for become Rich [spiritually], which richness is the source of their Faith James 2:5

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

The poor in spirit become rich in Faith, because Christ was made poor for their sakes. The poor in spirit are heirs also stated here Matt 5:3

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

That chosen poor that become rich in Faith are the Chosen of God here Eph 1:3-4


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Being poor in spirit is one of the many spiritual blessings they get according to their choice in Christ !

So Christ died that those He died for might be made rich in Faith because they are joint heirs together with Him of God ! 13
 
Top Bottom