Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

[brightfame52]

.One cannot keep secret who salvation is for, just as one cannot be secretive about what has been done to save. How can one preach salvation without preaching what has been done to save and for whom salvation has been purchased? As we have already learned, one cannot even preach the name of Christ without alluding to those He would save. Matthew 1:21 tells us: "...thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins". This verse of Scripture alone encapsulates the Person of Christ, the Work of Christ, and who He would die for—which tells us what He would do and in turn shows that He would be the Savior Who would save HIS people from their sins. You cannot preach Christ unless you speak of what He did and for whom He did it. The Doctrines Of The Gospel... (2) | godsonlygospel

Paul in his public testimony of the Gospel didnt hide, or conceal exactly who Salvation in Christ was for 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[BruceLeiter]

@BruceLeiter



No its natural mans reasoning, with no dependance on the Spirit of Truth.

Jesus once told a heathen women that He came specifically for the lost sheep of Israel [Gods elect] yet it didnt discourage her at all in her pursuit of mercy Matt 15:21-25

21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Thats shows your flawed natural thinking

Look at the next three verses:
Mat 15:26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.”
Mat 15:27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.”
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

Matthew wrote his gospel to Jewish Christians and included Jesus' test of her faith as a Gentile. She passed his test, and he healed her daughter because of her great faith, as a lesson to the Jews that Gentiles could have faith too.

For your response, I say, show me how that passage shows the flaws in my reasoning. You didn't say.

 

[brightfame52]

Look at the next three verses:
Mat 15:26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.”
Mat 15:27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.”
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

Matthew wrote his gospel to Jewish Christians and included Jesus' test of her faith as a Gentile. She passed his test, and he healed her daughter because of her great faith, as a lesson to the Jews that Gentiles could have faith too.

For your response, I say, show me how that passage shows the flaws in my reasoning. You didn't say.

You have been shown the error of your ways you just reject the gospel ,any gospel that does not include election, limited atonement is a false gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Did Christ's Death succeed its purpose ?

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

If Christ by His Death or His Offering of Himself, if by it each Person, each one He died for does not become zealous of Good Works as stated here [ See also Eph 2:10], His Death's Purpose was a Failure !

The word that here is important. Its the greek conjunction ἵνα and means:

in order that, so that


for the purpose that (in order that), looking to the aim (intended result) of the verbal idea

In other words, God's intended result in Christ giving Himself and He giving His Son Jn 3:16; Rom 8:32 as in order to produce certain and specific results, those being:

To redeem those He died for from all iniquity, and to purify unto himself a specially chosen people zealous of Good Works.

If This intention did not become a Reality for all whom Christ died, His Death failed God's Intended Purpose !

Then what about people who do not end up being a person zealous of good works ? Then simply Christ was not given for that person or persons ! 11

 

[Lamb]

You have been shown the error of your ways you just reject the gospel ,any gospel that does not include election, limited atonement is a false gospel

The Gospel is that Jesus died for all.

 

[brightfame52]

The Gospel is that Jesus died for all.

If you dont identify what all He died for, you haven't proclaimed the Gospel. For instance, He died for all that the Father gave Him , to come to Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Thats all those the Father chose to Salvation through Christ.

 

[JustTheFacts]

If you would stick to the words of Jesus, you wouldn't have this confusion.

23 He said to them, “You are from beneath. I am from above. You are of this world. I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am[b] he, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:23-24)

Jesus was talking to those who are rejecting Jesus, but he gave them the chance to believe by saying, "unless you believe." If you reject Jesus, you will die in your sin. Jesus died for all but it's up to each one of us whether to believe or not.

Why are you trying to figure out what Paul meant?

 

[Lamb]

If you dont identify what all He died for, you haven't proclaimed the Gospel. For instance, He died for all that the Father gave Him , to come to Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Thats all those the Father chose to Salvation through Christ.

The quote you give has nothing to do with who Christ died for.

 

[brightfame52]

The quote you give has nothing to do with who Christ died for.

Yes it does, it doesnt to you. Thats why they are given to Him to believe in Him.

 

[Lamb]

Yes it does, it doesnt to you. Thats why they are given to Him to believe in Him.

It says nothing about Christ's death.

 

[brightfame52]

The quote you give has nothing to do with who Christ died for.

John 6:37 (KJB)All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. All - Every, each, or everyoneGiveth - Hand over or entrustShall come - Be present (Future Indicative Active) This verse is packed with two biblical doctrines: Election and Eternal Security. In the previous verse Jesus had stated that these people have seen Him and they did not believe. This was because they were not qualified to believe and that is why they needed a sign because signs are for unbelievers. In this verse Jesus is stating that all that the Father gives Him will come to Him. The ones that the Father is giving Him are the ones whose names were written in the Lamb’s Book of Life before the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8 KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The ones who are given to Jesus are the elect of God and because they are named or predestined for salvation, they will come to the Lord Jesus Christ. The word in the Greek for “shall come” is in the future tense, Active voice, and Indicative mood. This means that those who are the elect of God will come to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Being that the word is future tense, it is telling us that salvation was not only for that time but will continue until the last day. Now here is where those who believe in free will become confused. The word is in the “indicative mood and active voice” which means the person who is called is coming to the Lord Jesus Christ, they are doing the action of coming. They are not coming out of some type of mythical free will but they are coming to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation because they were qualified by the Father to hear and understand the Gospel plus they were named for salvation. When a Gospel message is preached and someone walks the aisle stating they want to become saved, it is not out of some free will, it is because they are being qualified to hear and understand the Gospel, something which an unbeliever cannot do because they are spiritually dead. A person must be qualified to respond to the Gospel and that qualification is salvation itself which regenerates the person and gives them spiritual ears. (Mat 11:15 KJV) He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Jesus used that example many times and He was not speaking of physical hearing but spiritual hearing. (Luke 24:45 KJV) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, The opening of the spiritual ears of the disciples on the road to Emmaus is done for every believer throughout history. Previously I mentioned Martin Luther and his spiritual ears were opened and that phrase could actually be understood as a person’s spiritual understanding being opened. Then in the second half of this verse, Jesus states that those who come to Him, He will never cast out which means that those who become saved will have eternal security. It is a shame that many churches teach a person can lose their salvation. The problem is that they did not earn it, so how could they lose what they did not earn. If a person can lose their salvation, then the sacrifice of Christ was insufficient because it did not have the power to keep a believer after initial salvation. Those who believe this teaching forget one very major biblical tenet and that is that Christ removed every vestige of sin from our souls and they are completely clean. When Christ went to the cross, all our sins were in the future which means they were all paid for and removed. We were judged in Christ and found not guilty because all our sins were expunged. (Psa 103:12 KJV) As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. (Col 2:13-14 KJV) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; {14} Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Isa 43:25 KJV) I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.So if all our sins have been removed through Christ, then what sin is left to cause us to lose our salvation? The answer is none! John 6:36-40

 

[brightfame52]

It says nothing about Christ's death.

Doesnt have to , its implied.

 

[Lamb]

Doesnt have to , its implied.

Implied by those who believe in double predestination.

Let's look at more of John 6:

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

It doesn't state that Jesus didn't die for the entire world as other verses say.

 

[brightfame52]

Implied by those who believe in double predestination.

Let's look at more of John 6:

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

It doesn't state that Jesus didn't die for the entire world as other verses say.

It doesn't have to say that Jesus didn't die for the entire world,He just didn't. He spoke of who He died for specifically Jn10:11,15 and if you omit that fact in your gospel,you preach or witness a false gospel

 

[JustTheFacts]

It doesn't have to say that Jesus didn't die for the entire world,He just didn't. He spoke of who He died for specifically Jn10:11,15 and if you omit that fact in your gospel,you preach or witness a false gospel

Whoops, you forgot to cite John 10:16

16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.

One flock and one shepherd! Sorry, but whoever hears and believes is part of the flock.

 

[brightfame52]

Whoops, you forgot to cite John 10:16

16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.

One flock and one shepherd! Sorry, but whoever hears and believes is part of the flock.

Correct, they were part of the flock b4 they believed and that's why they believed. Its no such thing as Christ dying for someone and they dont believe as a result !

 

[JustTheFacts]

Correct, they were part of the flock b4 they believed and that's why they believed. Its no such thing as Christ dying for someone and they dont believe as a result !

So in your world, once you reject Jesus always rejected and out of the Kingdom? That's not what happened to me and I'm certain a bunch of others.

 

[brightfame52]

So in your world, once you reject Jesus always rejected and out of the Kingdom? That's not what happened to me and I'm certain a bunch of others.

I have the slightest idea what u talking about.

 

[brightfame52]

Did Christ's Death succeed its purpose ? 2

That He might bring us to God ! 1 Pet 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

This is ones subjective Reconciliation to God by way of Faith and Repentance ; or its our conversion to God. For this was a important purpose, intention for God giving His Son to die for those He died for, for if we be True Believers; That is by His Death or His once suffering for our sins, that this would result in our conversion to God !

Now if all for whom He suffered for their sins, are not as a result of that, converted to God, then His Death or Suffering for them failed its God given Purpose ! This bringing us to God or subjective reconciliation is effected because Christ through His Death did make Satisfaction for our sins, bearing the full penalty of the broken law for us as our Representative ! 11

 

[brightfame52]

Did Christ's Death succeed its purpose ? 3

More scripture giving the purpose and results of Christ's Death, that those He died for will serve Him ! 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Remember the words of the Psalmist Ps 22:30

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

That word serve means :

to cause to serve as subjects

to labour, work, do work

2) to work for another, serve another by labour

3) to serve as subjects

4) to serve (God)

to compel to labour or work, cause to labour, cause to serve


And Jesus said Jn 12:26

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Now that any man[who serves] will be of that seed Ps 22:30

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

That word seed means:

offspring, descendants as in Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That seed is all for whom He died or whom His soul was made an offering for sin for !


And Paul writes 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

The Apostle perceives the Love of Christ, which moved Him to give Himself for His Body the Church [His Seed] Eph 5:25, and that He died for all [The Seed], and the All He died for, died [judicially] with Him, and so they were as He was, all dead. Purpose being:

That we which live, the we being, the all that died with Him, should not live unto themselves in the flesh, as servants of sin, but unto Him that died for them [ Christ their Surety] !

Paul here just described the fruit of Christ's Death, it produces servants for Him. The same exact thing is taught in Titus 2:14, the end of His Redemptive Death produces a People zealous of Good Works ! 11