Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[Messy]

It is made possible by Christ's sacrifice for the sins of mankind, and Faith is the medium by which all who are saved are reconciled to God. If there is no connection to the Savior, then such a person cannot be saved.

It is simply stupid to argue that God chose this person or that person to be saved and then it doesn't matter how he lives his life, whether as a follower of the Lord or as the most violent and self-serving of non-believers.

It may be true that God chose people, but if so, Jesus is God, it's just the same as why Jesus didn't trust Himself to some people, because He knew what was in man and I read that the reformed believe that it can't be that someone wants to serve God, but God says: I don't want you, cause you weren't picked random.
The parable of the sower is so clear. The seed falls on the wayside, a totally hardened heart and the birds come and pick it. That's why He spoke in parables to the pharisees.

 

[brightfame52]

The hearing of the Word is important though. Although He did all sins away on the cross, you only get a new heart when you hear the Word and get the measure of faith. Then you are baptized in His death and can be raised with Him. It's not that I had gotten a new spirit already and was unaware of it.

For the [a]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

This is error, works !

 

[brightfame52]

Nonsense. If that were true, endless sections of the New Testament which speak to the matter would be false.

In the Church of your own mind, anything goes, but the Bible is still God's word given for his disciples' guidance.

Faith receives and is an evidence of what has been done and is a reality in the heavenlies.

 

[brightfame52]

It is made possible by Christ's sacrifice for the sins of mankind, and Faith is the medium by which all who are saved are reconciled to God. If there is no connection to the Savior, then such a person cannot be saved.

It is simply stupid to argue that God chose this person or that person to be saved and then it doesn't matter how he lives his life, whether as a follower of the Lord or as the most violent and self-serving of non-believers.

Made possible ? Christs death merely made Justification possible ? Blasphemy !

 

[brightfame52]

prism

Apparently God left that part out of His Word or are you making it up?

Man doesnt know God saved them or Justified them by nature, its knowledge to be received. Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

If Christ died for you and Justified you back in 33 ad, how do you know about it ? Duh

 

[Josiah]

Correct, it receives what has already been done, Justification before God.

And when not received, it's not received - and thus not possessed. Before faith, that individual is not justified because they don't have it.

Before Faith the Justified person is unaware of it.

And they don't have it, as you just indicated.

I hope you understand that Faith isnt causative of Justification before God, but receptive of it

I hope you will eventually understand that.



.

 

[Albion]

Faith receives and is an evidence of what has been done and is a reality in the heavenlies.

...which, if I understand your meaning, is saying that the person has already been saved...he just finds out about it later on. That's your idea of faith. And it's clearly not in accord with the Holy Bible.

 

[Messy]

This is error, works !

May God not work anymore either now? Jesus didn't care about doing nothing on the Sabbath. He just worked the works of the Father and preached the Gospel. The apostles had to preach.

Romans 10

For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

​

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who [b]preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Albion]

This is error, works !

We'll just add "works" to the list of your erroneous definitions (if we haven't done so already). No, thinking something is not a meritorious work, not even in the opinion of those denominations that believe faith + works are necessary and effective for salvation. You're not alone with this mistake, but it's incorrect nonetheless.

 

[Messy]

prism



Man doesnt know God saved them or Justified them by nature, its knowledge to be received. Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

If Christ died for you and Justified you back in 33 ad, how do you know about it ? Duh

That's half true. Yes someone from an unreached tribe doesn't know that Jesus was reconciling him and carried his sin, but he needs to hear the Gospel or see Jesus to get saved. Knowledge of salvation is knowing how to get saved.

 

[Albion]

Faith receives and is an evidence of what has been done and is a reality in the heavenlies.

Sounds good, but Faith is not merely a sign of something that's already accomplished. And, frankly, I don't know where you might have picked up such a notion since it's not the usual teaching among either the Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant churches. It likewise cannot be substantiated by a reading of Scripture apart from what all the theologians might have taught, but we've already made mention of that fact.

 

[brightfame52]

...which, if I understand your meaning, is saying that the person has already been saved...he just finds out about it later on. That's your idea of faith. And it's clearly not in accord with the Holy Bible.

Yes, a person by faith comes into the knowledge of their salvation or Justification before God.

 

[brightfame52]

May God not work anymore either now? Jesus didn't care about doing nothing on the Sabbath. He just worked the works of the Father and preached the Gospel. The apostles had to preach.

Romans 10

For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

​

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who [b]preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You have just gone off to the deep end now.

 

[brightfame52]

That's half true. Yes someone from an unreached tribe doesn't know that Jesus was reconciling him and carried his sin, but he needs to hear the Gospel or see Jesus to get saved. Knowledge of salvation is knowing how to get saved.

More works !

 

[Albion]

Yes, a person by faith comes into the knowledge of their salvation or Justification before God.

Then you can't even understand what I wrote in the post to which you are replying.

That being the case, why would any of us--including you--think that you understand the Bible? Especially when you come up with some interpretation that disagrees with almost every Christian church on Earth??

 

[brightfame52]

Sounds good, but Faith is not merely a sign of something that's already accomplished. And, frankly, I don't know where you might have picked up such a notion since it's not the usual teaching among either the Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant churches. It likewise cannot be substantiated by a reading of Scripture apart from what all the theologians might have taught, but we've already made mention of that fact.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, Thats Justification before God, its not seen

Faith spiritually persuades a person a person who has been Justified by Christ that they are Justified even though its invisible.

 

[brightfame52]

Then you can't even understand what I wrote in that post to which you are replying.

That being the case, why would any of us--including you--think that you understand the Bible? Especially when you come up with some interpretation that disagrees with almost every Christian church on Earth??

You dont have a clue and you not hearing the Truth.

 

[Albion]

You dont have a clue and you not hearing the Truth.

That's apparently all you can say when you're stumped. That, and repeat your claim almost word for word.

If there were any sense to the idea that Faith is just a spinoff feeling or "evidence" for a salvation already assured, no matter what the person does or believes...

you could explain it and show how the rest of the Bible supports your remarkable discovery. But no. this ^ is all we get. Verbal footstomping.

 

[Messy]

More works !

Sorry I'm such a busy bee. I will become unemployed, so I can go to heaven.

 

[Albion]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen,...

Yes, but your mistake is so elementary. Many things can have two or more qualities at once. But your notion is that Faith is ONLY the evidence of things not seen.

That isn't what the Scripture says about Faith. You just assumed something (as usual) and it never entered your mind that the statement you were dealing with was emphasizing some aspect of Faith but not necessarily exhausting the possibilities.

...Justification before God, its not seen

Yeah, life in heaven is not literally visible to the believer while he's in this life. He's anticipating it. So what's your problem?