Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[brightfame52]

messy

A justified sinner?

Right, Christ died for sinners duh Rom 5:8


But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Was He dying for sinners here, did it Justify them ? Yes or No

What is that even?

Its a sinner who has been Justified, duh So you believe sinners that Christ died for, by that fact alone, are Justified before God ?

 

[brightfame52]

Negatory good buddy...

Romans 5:9 KJV
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Well then I have to honestly say you are in unbelief good buddy. In essence, though you may be doing it unintentionally, you deny that Christs death in and of itself satisfied Gods law and Justice and Justified them He died for. So then your faith is in something else that Justified you before God if Christs death alone didnt.

The word now poses no problem, simply because ones Justification before God by the Death of Christ isnt known by the Justified one until they are given Faith to receive it and embrace it in their mind and heart.

 

[brightfame52]

No.

Then sorry to say, thats unbelief friend.

 

[prism]

Rome 5:9~Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Now That's a great anchor verse for assurance.

 

[Messy]

messy



Right, Christ died for sinners duh Rom 5:8


But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Was He dying for sinners here, did it Justify them ? Yes or No



Its a sinner who has been Justified, duh So you believe sinners that Christ died for, by that fact alone, are Justified before God ?

A sinner is a sinner. A sinner is not just. Sounds like you mean fake just, like God sees them as just and holy, while they're not.
The old man died with Christ in 28 AD or 33 AD whatever and when He rose, maybe then the one new man was created? I dunno. But a sinner has to get saved, gets faith from God, faith that His blood saved him yes and then you're a justified saint. Paul was not a justified saint when he was still Saul and murdering people.

1 Corinthians 6
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

You say this happened in 33 AD? That cannot be, because then they were never a sinner. He came to save His people from their sins. Not by just faking that a sinner is just, but when we hear the Gospel and we believe that His blood cleanses us from all sin, then it cleanses us from all sin.

 

[brightfame52]

A sinner is a sinner. A sinner is not just. Sounds like you mean fake just, like God sees them as just and holy, while they're not.
The old man died with Christ in 28 AD or 33 AD whatever and when He rose, maybe then the one new man was created? I dunno. But a sinner has to get saved, gets faith from God, faith that His blood saved him yes and then you're a justified saint. Paul was not a justified saint when he was still Saul and murdering people.

1 Corinthians 6
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

You say this happened in 33 AD? That cannot be, because then they were never a sinner. He came to save His people from their sins. Not by just faking that a sinner is just, but when we hear the Gospel and we believe that His blood cleanses us from all sin, then it cleanses us from all sin.

So obviously the death of Christ for a sinner means nothing to you, it accomplished nothing for that sinner before God, thats unbelief !

 

[Messy]

So obviously the death of Christ for a sinner means nothing to you, it accomplished nothing for that sinner before God, thats unbelief !

No we were reconciled by His death and the old sin nature died with Him and we died with Christ, but it's like when you're sick and you say by His stripes I am healed. Yes it's true. It happened in 33 AD, but only when you believe that, you can get healed and only when you believe that He died for you, then you get saved.

 

[Messy]

So obviously the death of Christ for a sinner means nothing to you, it accomplished nothing for that sinner before God, thats unbelief !

I don't think you really believe yourself that a sinner is made just in 33 AD. Else you would not call it a sinner, but a saint and if you do, then why do they need to get faith? They're justified. They can go rob a bank and not believe in Jesus, cause they're already just. Makes no sense.

 

[prism]

Well then I have to honestly say you are in unbelief good buddy. In essence, though you may be doing it unintentionally, you deny that Christs death in and of itself satisfied Gods law and Justice and Justified them He died for. So then your faith is in something else that Justified you before God if Christs death alone didnt.

The word now poses no problem, simply because ones Justification before God by the Death of Christ isnt known by the Justified one until they are given Faith to receive it and embrace it in their mind and heart.

Actually, it's Christ's perfect obedience (which includes His death) that satisfies His Law and Justice.
My faith is in Jesus and Him crucified despite your continual miscaricarizations of what I repeatedly say I believe, and for that, you win the IGNORE buzzard.

The word now poses no problem, simply because ones Justification before God by the Death of Christ isnt known by the Justified one until they are given Faith to receive it and embrace it in their mind and heart.

Now you are using the word 'until' which implies in time (not in eternity), which has been my point all along. So, so long. Sorry, I couldn't have been of help.

 

[brightfame52]

No we were reconciled by His death and the old sin nature died with Him and we died with Christ, but it's like when you're sick and you say by His stripes I am healed. Yes it's true. It happened in 33 AD, but only when you believe that, you can get healed and only when you believe that He died for you, then you get saved.

If people were reconciled to God by Christs death then they were Justified by His death, they are practically the same thing. And this was while they were enemies, not believers Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So you really dont understand what you talking about friend.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't think you really believe yourself that a sinner is made just in 33 AD. Else you would not call it a sinner, but a saint and if you do, then why do they need to get faith? They're justified. They can go rob a bank and not believe in Jesus, cause they're already just. Makes no sense.

You still confused about this matter.

 

[brightfame52]

Actually, it's Christ's perfect obedience (which includes His death) that satisfies His Law and Justice.
My faith is in Jesus and Him crucified despite your continual miscaricarizations of what I repeatedly say I believe, and for that, you win the IGNORE buzzard.


Now you are using the word 'until' which implies in time (not in eternity), which has been my point all along. So, so long. Sorry, I couldn't have been of help.

Again, you will put me on ignore, because you in my opinion are in unbelief. You say a person who Christ died for, isnt Justified before God until they believe. Thats unbelief, because a person Jesus Christ died for, is Justified before God on that basis, before they believe.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification beware !

It must be careful on how we understand Justification before God legally by the Obedience/Death of Christ, and Justification by ones work/s whenever we have Justification applied to us by the New Birth, or given heart circumcision, whereby we participate, partake in a conversion experience, whereby we do act Repentance and Faith toward God and The Lord Jesus Christ.

If we however deny Justification before God legally [in the court of heaven] even while we are ungodly Rom 4:5 and enemies Rom 5:10, and unbelievers and do not hold to being Justified legally before God solely on the meritorious blood of Christ, and only what He did for us, and not yet what He does in us, then again we deny the Legal Grace aspect of Justification solely by Christ's Death and trust to what we do after having had Justification applied inwardly by the Holy Spirit. To trust in the Spirit's Work in us, for Justification before God legally, overthrows and comes into competition with the Lord Jesus Christ's Work for Us, and that alone being the basis for ones Justification before God; Thus subtle heresy is what has deceived many who claim Justification before God by Faith alone, not realizing they are still teaching a work based Justification before God, based upon what a man does as a result of a inward work in them.

Last thing, its very important, Once we tend to base Justification before God on a inward or inherent qualification, be it natural or Spiritual, we are guilty of turning to Justification by our works, and deny Justification before God solely upon the Work of Christ, which the Resurrection of Christ does testify unto Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

But once we look inherently even be it our graces from Spiritual New Birth, and say in our heart, for this God Justified me, we deny the Legal Justification of the Cross, and so deny the Cross altogether !

 

[Albion]

If people were reconciled to God by Christs death then they were Justified by His death, they are practically the same thing. And this was while they were enemies, not believers Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

In this verse, the speaker is clearly referring to humanity in general having been reconciled to God. Whether or not any particular one of us finds eternal life is another matter, but none of us would have a chance if Christ had not paid the price for the Fall of our first parents.

Again, you will put me on ignore, because you in my opinion are in unbelief. You say a person who Christ died for, isnt Justified before God until they believe. Thats unbelief, because a person Jesus Christ died for, is Justified before God on that basis, before they believe.

You're simply inventing your own twists or variations on the subject which have basically no following whatsoever among any of the Christian churches.

That should tell all of us something important, if "it's all so simple" (as you are trying to tell us it is) were actually correct to say.

 

[brightfame52]

albion

In this verse, the speaker is clearly referring to humanity in general having been reconciled to God

No thats impossible, unless you are a universalist. The reconciled in that verse shall be saved His Life, thats a guarentee Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Albion]

albion

No thats impossible, unless you are a universalist. The reconciled in that verse shall be saved His Life, thats a guarentee Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Your conclusion, as stated, is in error. The words are not a guarantee. Rather, the process is being explained.

So, it looks like you missed the point completely. Who's being reconciled, and what does reconciled mean here? Those are points you should familiarize yourself with.

 

[brightfame52]

Your conclusion, as stated, is in error. The words are not a guarantee. Rather, the process is being explained.

So, it looks like you missed the point completely. Who's being reconciled, and what does reconciled mean here? Those are points you should familiarize yourself with.

So do you deny that according to Rom 5:10 the reconciled by His death shall be saved by His Life ?

 

[brightfame52]

albion said

The words are not a guarantee.

Thats false and more opposition to the scripture. The words shall be saved by His life are in the future, passive indicative, now the indicative means:

Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

Its a guaranteed fact they shall be saved by His Life. Now to deny this is to deny the word of promise made by God Himself, thats nothing but unbelief reigning supreme.

 

[brightfame52]

All for whom Christ died are Justified !

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


All for whom Christ died are Justified because :

#1 He died for them, and so Justified solely by His Blood Rom 5:9


9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

#2 Because He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

#3 Because He sits on the Right Hand of God, and so they are also in Him Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

4 th He maketh Intercession for them, which doeth ensure their Justification by Faith, through the Spirit's Work in Them 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now everyone Christ died for has an interest in His Resurrection as well Per Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for [because of] our justification.

and everyone who has an Interest in His Resurrection, have a interest in His Intercession for them at the Right Hand of God, who are already Justified Persons, and how do we know this ? Because all who had in a Interest in His Resurrection were Justified, since since He was raised up again for or because of their Justification Rom 4:25, Hence Christ intercession / advocacy is limited to the Justified Persons sitting with Him in Heavenly Places Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 9

 

[brightfame52]

Before Gospel Obedience and while ungodly !

Are those that Jesus Christ died for, Justified from all sin before God's Law and Justice prior to any Gospel Obedience they shall render, such as Faith and Repentance ? Yes by all means they are, or how else can it be declared that God Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:4-6

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Gospel Obedience to the Truth is Godliness Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now if God Justifieth the Ungodly, then it cannot be after an act of Godliness ! And if it be not of works so that it can be of Grace, then it cannot be of any condition that was imposed upon the one being Justified !

Also if they [The Justified ones] are believing on Him [Rom 8:33] that is Justifying the Ungodly, then the verdict of Justification is being passed upon them while being Ungodly; Hence how can Faith, Repentance, or any Gospel ordinance or obedience be a condition to Justification before God , when its based upon Christ's Finished Work for them ?

Then once again, men that Christ died for are Justified before God apart from Faith or any obedience from them.

They are being Justified while nothing is in them but ungodliness and enmity against God , even as they are reconciled to God while being enemies, by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10, now if we are not Justified before God before we act obedience of Faith or Repentance, then we were not Justified as being Ungodly, but as Godly and Obedience, which would contradict Rom 4:5, where its plainly stated that God Justified the Ungodly !9