Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[Albion]

Okay, then we dont believe the same, I see you as believing in justification before God according to your act of believing,

Many other people make the same mistake you are making there.

Believing is not a "good work" AKA a meritorious work that is supposed to put away God's wrath, like helping the proverbial old lady across the street and other similar charitable acts. It's not a work of any kind, not a work at all, whether good or bad.

Some other people will say that being baptized is a "good work" so that they are, therefore, not going to go through it.

But what's the "good deed" there? Walking to the front of the church? Saying the words that are part of the ceremony? Hardly.

Those are not acts of charity, mercy, or love! Plus, it's GOD who does the work in the sacraments and we are just the recipients of it.

and not by the mere fact that Christ died for a person. You believe in Justification by Faith alone, an act of yours,..

I believe in Justification by Christ alone, and Faith persuaded me of that fact. So I have to say you believe in Justification by your works.

Same mistake there.

But now that we have that straightened out, it's important to keep in mind that while thinking or believing something doesn't constitute a "good work" capable of gaining salvation for anyone, neither are deeds that genuinely ARE "works of mercy" such as Christ taught his listeners to engage in. These are to be done, yes, but that's because they are right to do. It is Faith that saves.

 

[Messy]

Many other people make the same mistake you are making there.

Believing is not a "good work" AKA a meritorious work that is supposed to put away God's wrath, like helping the proverbial old lady across the street and other similar charitable acts. It's not a work of any kind, not a work at all, whether good or bad.

Some other people will say that being baptized is a "good work" so that they are, therefore, not going to go through it.

But what's the "good deed" there? Walking to the front of the church? Saying the words that are part of the ceremony? Hardly.

Those are not acts of charity, mercy, or love! Plus, it's GOD who does the work in the sacraments and we are just the recipients of it.



Same mistake there.

But now that we have that straightened out, it's important to keep in mind that while thinking or believing something or other doesn't constitute a "good deed" or "good work" capable of gaining salvation for anyone, neither are acts that actually ARE "works of mercy" such as Christ taught his listeners to engage in. These are to be done, yes, and that's because they are right to do, but it is Faith that saves.

Philippians 2:13​

13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

 

[brightfame52]

Many other people make the same mistake you are making there.

Believing is not a "good work" AKA a meritorious work that is supposed to put away God's wrath, like helping the proverbial old lady across the street and other similar charitable acts. It's not a work of any kind, not a work at all, whether good or bad.

Some other people will say that being baptized is a "good work" so that they are, therefore, not going to go through it.

But what's the "good deed" there? Walking to the front of the church? Saying the words that are part of the ceremony? Hardly.

Those are not acts of charity, mercy, or love! Plus, it's GOD who does the work in the sacraments and we are just the recipients of it.



Same mistake there.

But now that we have that straightened out, it's important to keep in mind that while thinking or believing something or other doesn't constitute a "good deed" or "good work" capable of gaining salvation for anyone, neither are acts that actually ARE "works of mercy" such as Christ taught his listeners to engage in. These are to be done, yes, and that's because they are right to do, but it is Faith that saves.

Again we dont believe the same, I gave the reason why. Did you understand it ?

 

[Albion]

Philippians 2:13​

13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I'm not sure what you are focusing on by citing that verse, although I know from other posts that you believe in salvation by Faith.

God, of course, wants us to do good. Christ taught it constantly, but that doesn't mean going around doing nice things for others earns anybody salvation.

 

[Messy]

I'm not sure what you are focusing on by citing that verse, although I know from other posts that you believe in salvation by Faith.

God, of course, wants us to do good. Christ taught it constantly, but that doesn't mean going around doing nice things for others earns anybody salvation.

Yes it's just an extra text. He does it in and through us, so He does it. It's His good works. He first gives the faith. Saved by faith. Faith without works is dead, but He does it, so it's not doing good works yourself to be good enough.

 

[prism]

Okay, then we dont believe the same, I see you as believing in justification before God according to your act of believing, and not by the mere fact that Christ died for a person. You believe in Justification by Faith alone, an act of yours, I believe in Justification by Christ alone, and Faith persuaded me of that fact. So I have to say you believe in Justification by your works.

Where did I say it was an act of the elect? It is a gift which God works 'in time' through His sovereign providence... maybe you should reread your WCF.

 

[Albion]

Again we dont believe the same, I gave the reason why. Did you understand it ?

Of course I understood it. That's why I was prompted to respond.

If we'd agreed on all this stuff, a simple "like" icon would have sufficed!

 

[brightfame52]

Where did I say it was an act of the elect? It is a gift which God works 'in time' through His sovereign providence... maybe you should reread your WCF.

Faith/Believing is an act whether you say it or not, and you postpone Justification before God until that act of yours.

 

[brightfame52]

Of course I understood it. That's why I was prompted to respond.

If we'd agreed on all this stuff, a simple "like" icon would have sufficed!

Okay I guess we know where each other stands.

 

[prism]

Faith/Believing is an act whether you say it or not, and you postpone Justification before God until that act of yours.

I already said we are justfied before God from the foundation of the world...from there He works saving faith in His elect.

 

[brightfame52]

I already said we are justfied before God from the foundation of the world...from there He works saving faith in His elect.

Then you are doubleminded. You said No to my question and stated one is justifed at faith, so you are confused about this matter, unstable. Im going by what you said here in post 457:

Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

You say stay away from Derek Prince. I'm like he has great teachings. I'm like stay away from Calvin. You're like he has good preachings. You may be right. Jesus even said they should listen to the pharisees, but not do as they do and watch the leaven. Your message made me think of other such...

christianityhaven.com

 

[prism]

Then you are doubleminded. You said No to my question and stated one is justifed at faith, so you are confused about this matter, unstable. Im going by what you said here in post 457:

Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

You say stay away from Derek Prince. I'm like he has great teachings. I'm like stay away from Calvin. You're like he has good preachings. You may be right. Jesus even said they should listen to the pharisees, but not do as they do and watch the leaven. Your message made me think of other such...

christianityhaven.com

What contradiction do you see? I see none.
BTW, ad hominem attacks show a sign of desperation

 

[brightfame52]

What contradiction do you see? I see none.
BTW, ad hominem attacks show a sign of desperation

I already told you the contradiction i see.

 

[prism]

I already told you the contradiction i see.

Fine, it's just not there, perhaps a Fig-Newton of your imagination. I see nothing.

 

[Albion]

Fine, it's just not there, perhaps a Fig-Newton of your imagination. I see nothing.

What there is to see is this> He imagines that Faith is a "work," an action like going on a pilgrimage or feeding the hungry, and for that reason he rejects it.

You, however, supported the most famous of all the doctrines to come out of the Protestant Reformation--Sola Fide (Faith Alone).

Most of us here accept the principle as Scripturally correct ("The Just shall live by Faith") and understand that it stands in opposition to the Catholic concept of salvation by Faith and Works together, with both of those being seen as necessary and efficacious.

For that, you got described as doubleminded, confused, and unstable.

 

[prism]

For that, you got described as doubleminded, confused, and unstable.

Thanks, but I'll just let @brightfame52 explain himself, otherwise..oh well.

 

[brightfame52]

Fine, it's just not there, perhaps a Fig-Newton of your imagination. I see nothing.

I cant help what you cant see !

 

[prism]

I cant help what you cant see !

Ok, I'll just let you walk in your misunderstanding of my position...

Here is what the Westminster Confession of Faith says in Chapter 11 Article 4...

iv. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect;(1) and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification. 2) nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.

That sir, is exactly my understanding and it should be yours if you call yourself a Calvinist. ( I don't call myself one because I don't ascribe to everything in their Confession of Faith)

 

[prism]

...(duplicate post by mistake)

 

[brightfame52]

Ok, I'll just let you walk in your misunderstanding of my position...

Here is what the Westminster Confession of Faith says in Chapter 11 Article 4...

iv. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect;(1) and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification. 2) nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.

That sir, is exactly my understanding and it should be yours if you call yourself a Calvinist. ( I don't call myself one because I don't ascribe to everything in their Confession of Faith)

You can quote all that, you dont believe one is Justified before God prior to their believing, you said it. Thats not faith, but unbelief.