Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[SetFree]

Delete. double post.

 

[brightfame52]

What is Justification by Faith ?

Justification by faith is God's declaring personally to a person, in their consciousness, that by Christ, His Blood, they are made just, they are forgiven of all their sins, have no condemnation in Christ, so that the person perceives and lays hold of this Divine declaration by Holy Spirit given Faith. Faith or believing in Christ is not an act man performs as an condition in order to their Justification before God, for that automatically defaults to Justification by my works, and not by faith in its proper sense. Therefore faith is the primary instrument by which God declares or makes known to the Justified, that he or she is Justified, so faith is the substance of things hoped for , the reality of things [spiritual] not seen.

 

[brightfame52]

The Resurrection of Christ declares Justification before God !

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Thats Right, Christ's Resurrection equals our Justification if He died for our offences !

That all those for whom Christ died, being that all their offenses were imputed to His account, so that for them He was delivered to death, so it was, that when He was raised again, it was for or because of their Justification, that is to say, that His Resurrection was a declaration of His and their Justification before God. It does not say that He rose again for the future purpose of their Justification, but because of, for that reason, was He raised again, because of their [The Ones He died for] Justification ! If Christ had not risen, faith would be vain, because those He died for would yet still be in their sins, unjustified before God.

Those who teach that Christ's Death alone does not satisfy God's Law and Justice for their Justification before God, but a subsequent work of the Spirit is needed or any type of application of it is needed to the ones Justified by Christ's Blood, they are not speaking truth, Thats taking away from the Accomplishment of Christ's Blood alone ! 4

 

[brightfame52]

When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

So being Justified by Faith in Time is nothing less than being made known to us our Eternal Interest in God's Eternal Covenant with His Son, and our interest in the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20, and this was before being revealed to us a Mystery of God's Will Eph 1:7-9

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Thats Justification by Faith !

 

[Albion]

Just take care not to fall into talking as though "God" struck a deal or made an agreement with the Son as if we're speaking of two separate beings, one God and the other some kind of agent of God or a lesser god.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ Resurrection and Justification !


Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Justification by or at the resurrection of Jesus Christ, those who are most unlearned of the accomplishment of Christ's Death, that it did in fact Justify those He died for, they are guilty of denying the very witness of the Resurrection of Christ. Let me explain, The Life and Death of Christ has fulfilled God's Law in its entirety, all of its Holy Requirements, Obedience to all of its precepts, and even Death for its Transgression, so all for whom He died is Justified by His Death ! Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now what does knowledge here mean in context of the subject of the verse ? Many believe that it refers to the knowledge of the one being Justified by Christ's Death, their Faith ! Even though I can see that, yet the verse says by His Knowledge, that is by the Knowledge of the Righteous Servant shall He Justify many ! This Knowledge must be connected somehow to His Death. The word for knowledge here is the Hebrew Word da`ath and means:


knowledge

a) knowledge, perception, skill

b) discernment, understanding, wisdom

This word is derived from the Hebrew Word yada which means:


to know by experience

So its by His experience with Death or by His Tasting of Death Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The word taste here is the greek word geuomai and means:


to taste, to try the flavour of

2) to taste

a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy

b) to feel, make trial of, experience

3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat

So by His Experiencing Death, experiencing its flavor, by it He Justified many, because He bare their sin, again pointing to His Death !

GWT He will see and be satisfied because of his suffering. My righteous servant will acquit many people because of what he has learned [through suffering]. He will carry their sins as a burden.

This Translation compares to what the Writer of Hebrews Wrote here Heb 5:8

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

The word learned here means:

to learn, be apprised

a) to increase one's knowledge, to be increased in knowledge

b) to hear, be informed

c) to learn by use and practice

1) to be in the habit of, accustomed to

So, Isa 53:11 is a clear proclamation that the Death of Christ alone, made those whom sins He bare Justified before God !

And so their Justification here is not their Justification by Faith, which will occur at a later time, because the promise is " The Just [or Justified] shall live by Faith.

Now that we know from scripture that we were Justified by His Death, that is what His Resurrection Proves Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences [ He bare our Sins Isa 53:11], and was raised again for[Because of ] our justification.

The Resurrection of Christ is God's Testimony public ally that those Christ died for, bare their sins, that they were Justified, and faith shall later receive the Testimony of God !

So to say that one for whom Christ died was not solely Justified before God by Christ's Death, is to Call God a Liar and the Resurrection a Liar ! 5

 

[1689Dave]

Here is the beauty and freedom found only in Christ. This understanding is one of my favorite treasures from God's word.

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done. If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward. But if any person’s work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.” 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 (AMP)

The way it works is. a believer has Christ's imputed righteousness that saves no matter what. But they can gain a better resurrection with heavenly rewards if their peripheral works stand the test. Remember the incestuous Corinthian brother? Paul delivered him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his soul would be saved. His Works failed completely but his salvation was certain.This means Salvation is never about works. It's about Christ's imputed works (righteousness) that saves us and our peripheral works can merit only rewards in heaven. But it is Christ's imputed righteousness that saves.

 

[brightfame52]

Here is the beauty and freedom found only in Christ. This understanding is one of my favorite treasures from God's word.

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done. If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward. But if any person’s work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.” 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 (AMP)

The way it works is. a believer has Christ's imputed righteousness that saves no matter what. But they can gain a better resurrection with heavenly rewards if their peripheral works stand the test. Remember the incestuous Corinthian brother? Paul delivered him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his soul would be saved. His Works failed completely but his salvation was certain.This means Salvation is never about works. It's about Christ's imputed works (righteousness) that saves us and our peripheral works can merit only rewards in heaven. But it is Christ's imputed righteousness that saves.

Hi Dave, I agree with the majority of what you saying here. Yet I pause whenever I see that something of eternal value, like reward can be said to be merited by the saved. What about the saved incestous brother in 1 Cor 5, will he not receive the crown of life James 1:12 or the crown of righteousness 2 Tim 4:8, and arent all reward due solely by the fact that the saved are in union with Christ ? Just asking, maybe you can help me understand some things better about rewards, at this juncture I see them also being all of grace and no merit.

 

[1689Dave]

Hebrews 11 mentions the rewards of many listed in the "hall of faith".

“Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:” Hebrews 11:35 (KJV 1900)

So as I see it there are degrees of reward in Heaven just as there are degrees of suffering in Hell. God causes us to act but the experience molds us more and more into Christ's likeness. This brings greater reward. BTW, thanks for your posts!

 

[brightfame52]

Hebrews 11 mentions the rewards of many listed in the "hall of faith".

“Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:” Hebrews 11:35 (KJV 1900)

So as I see it there are degrees of reward in Heaven just as there are degrees of suffering in Hell. God causes us to act but the experience molds us more and more into Christ's likeness. This brings greater reward. BTW, thanks for your posts!

Hi Dave, I appreciate your posts as well. I see the Heb 11:35 verse referring to the resurrection of the Just in that last say which of course is a much better resurrection than that of the unjust. Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Luke 14:14

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Dan 12:2-3

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Jn 5:28-29

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Im not convinced by Heb 11:35 that there will be degrees of reward, of course I could be wrong.

 

[1689Dave]

Hi Dave, I appreciate your posts as well. I see the Heb 11:35 verse referring to the resurrection of the Just in that last say which of course is a much better resurrection than that of the unjust. Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Luke 14:14

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Dan 12:2-3

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Jn 5:28-29

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Im not convinced by Heb 11:35 that there will be degrees of reward, of course I could be wrong.

I think this speaks for me in this matter.


REWARD

The motif of reward is deeply rooted in the faith of the Bible, which nowhere treats the godly life as a life devoid of reward. From God’s assurance to Abraham that “your reward shall be very great” (Gen 15:1 NRSV) to Christ’s statement in the last chapter of the Bible that “I am coming soon; my reward is with me” (Rev 22:12 NRSV), the Bible assumes that God rewards the righteous. This is not to say that reward is based on human merit; it is based on divine grace. In fact, hovering over the Bible is the grim awareness that the *“wages” the human race has earned by sin consist of death (Rom 6:23). This is why salvation is the serious theme of Scripture. But reward is nonetheless linked throughout the Bible to people’s lifestyle and state of soul.


Ryken, L., Wilhoit, J., Longman, T., Duriez, C., Penney, D., & Reid, D. G. (2000). In Dictionary of biblical imagery (electronic ed., p. 719). InterVarsity Press.

 

[brightfame52]

dave

The motif of reward is deeply rooted in the faith of the Bible, which nowhere treats the godly life as a life devoid of reward. From God’s assurance to Abraham that “your reward shall be very great” (Gen 15:1 NRSV)

I prefer the kjv which reads:

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

I believe God is saying He Himself is Abrahams Shield and Great reward, and I believe this applies to all Abrahams Spiritual seed

Paul mentions a crown of life that not only himself but all who love the second coming of Christ shall receive 2 Tim 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

[1689Dave]

dave



I prefer the kjv which reads:

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

I believe God is saying He Himself is Abrahams Shield and Great reward, and I believe this applies to all Abrahams Spiritual seed

Paul mentions a crown of life that not only himself but all who love the second coming of Christ shall receive 2 Tim 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

I agree with your position. I see rewards for work as offsetting the suffering endured in the work. A Martyr's crown etc. Thanks.

 

[brightfame52]

dave

to Christ’s statement in the last chapter of the Bible that “I am coming soon; my reward is with me” (Rev 22:12 NRSV), the Bible assumes that God rewards the righteous.

Im sure His reward is wth Him since He is our reward. All the righeous shall shine in the Kingdom friend:

Matt 13:43

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

But reward is nonetheless linked throughout the Bible to people’s lifestyle and state of soul.

Not sure I am in agreement with this. I see rewards being all of grace

 

[brightfame52]

I agree with your position. I see rewards for work as offsetting the suffering endured in the work. A Martyr's crown etc. Thanks.

All who have been given to believe on Christ, have also been given to suffer on His behalf to some degree or other Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[1689Dave]

All who have been given to believe on Christ, have also been given to suffer on His behalf to some degree or other Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Do you think Paul's suffering was of no avail?

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Revelation 22:12 (KJV 1900)

 

[brightfame52]

dave

Do you think Paul's suffering was of no avail?

Depends on what you mean. Paul isnt the only one God gave suffering to. And what do you mean avail ? After your response, I will be moving away from discussing rewards, would prefer to stay tuned in on Justification of the ungodly.

 

[1689Dave]

dave



Depends on what you mean. Paul isnt the only one God gave suffering to. And what do you mean avail ? After your response, I will be moving away from discussing rewards, would prefer to stay tuned in on Justification of the ungodly.

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Revelation 22:12 (KJV 1900)

 

[brightfame52]

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Revelation 22:12 (KJV 1900)

Okay !

 

[brightfame52]

More on Justification Rom 8:30

Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Those here in this context that God calls, its an effectual call, and all those thus called are Justified, no exceptions, this Justification that follows the call in time is making known Justification by the revealing of imputed Righteousness by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17, its when the called receives by faith a consciousness of the imputed obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them as their Righteousness. They now receive and rest on Christ and His Righteousness revealed, by Faith, which faith they have not of themselves, this faith is also the Gift of God, Phil 1:29, Yes this faith accompanies Salvation Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.