Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[brightfame52]

What man made religion does not know and understand, but at the same time that Christ was setup as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant, the transgressions of all He represented, all the Father gave Him, they were charged to Him or imputed to Him, and so at that time they were discharged from all their guilt they would incur and declared Righteous or Justified ! 4

 

[brightfame52]

When Paul teaches that one is Justified by Faith, Rom 5:1, he does not mean as the unfaithful teachers tell us, that one is Justified before God because of our act of faith or of believing, but that God given Faith embraces a Righteousness revealed to it, that was not our own Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The unfaithful teachers tells us that God counts their own faith as their Righteousness, which contradicts this very Truth !

 

[brightfame52]

The ungodly Elect are Justified by the blood of Christ alone before God's bar of Justice, before they know of it and embrace it by Faith, and so Rom 5:1 means that God given Faith has now embraced or received the fact of having been afore time Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 or His Grace Titus 3:7; 2 Tim 1:9; It is then Faith introduces us into the Grace that we stand Rom 5:2 in before God because of the Blood and Merits of Christ on our behalf !

The NASB is good here for Rom 5:2

through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

However the Elect's whole unconverted life was spent under the Justifying blood of Christ, being preserved until being called Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Calling follows being preserved. Paul recognized his preservation until called also by grace Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

You see, regardless if we realize it by faith or not, the Blood of Christ has paid the sin debt one owed to God's Law and Justice, that was incurred in Adam and in our own physical persons. You see it is the Blood of Christ that had the Justifying merit before God, not our act of believing it ! Our believing it is only God giving us our own comfort and assurance of it !

 

[brightfame52]

In the Mind of God !

In the Mind of God , a Person whom Christ died in behalf of is no more Justified after they believe, than they were before they believed, for God's Justification of one does not depend upon the act of man, which believing is, for if we believe not, He remains faithful [to the Covenant with His Son] and that is to Justify by His Blood, all for whom He died and Represented !

 

[brightfame52]

It is not Faith itself that Justifies the Elect, but God Himself Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

It is He that Imputes Righteousness unto them on behalf of Christ's Work for them, and that is what Faith has at it's view when God reveals this Righteousness Imputed by the Preaching of the Gospel to them Rom 1:16-17, so it is each child of Abraham will as Abraham did, have the Gospel Preached individually to them Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

By the Spirit's application of it to their minds and hearts, and God given Faith will embrace it and embrace Him that did Justify, God or God through Christ Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[Albion]

It is not Faith itself that Justifies the Elect, but God Himself Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Certainly, but it's all a matter of how we understand the words that are used.

The sinner cannot, on his own, turn from his sin and accept Christ, but it is because of him embracing the Faith that God offers.

 

[brightfame52]

Certainly, but it's all a matter of how we understand the words that are used.

The sinner cannot, on his own, turn from his sin and accept Christ, but it is because of him embracing the Faith that God offers.

It has nothing to do with any offer friend. God justifies on a just ground, the Blood of Christ. The only offering involved was Christ offering His Blood to God for the sins of His People, and that Justified them

 

[Albion]

It has nothing to do with any offer friend. God justifies on a just ground, the Blood of Christ. The only offering involved was Christ offering His Blood to God for the sins of His People, and that Justified them

It IS Faith that saves, and of course that Faith is the means by which we appropriate the merits of Jesus' Sacrifice. The question then concerns how any of us is able to come by that Faith.

It depends on whether you think God forces saving Faith upon anyone, by predestination for instance, thereby saving him...or instead makes Faith in Christ available to us, but that we can nevertheless turn our backs on Him and die in our sins.

My reply was meant to avoid adopting either of those views but to stress that, in any case, we are not able to turn to God strictly by our own abilities and/or strength.

 

[brightfame52]

albion

It IS Faith that saves,

No it doesnt, but it reveals who does save, Jesus Christ is the Saviour. So Faith saves by revealing its object, Jesus Christ, you will be wise to listen

. The question then concerns how any of us is able to come by that Faith.

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit and it comes by means of the new birth or the sanctifying work of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It depends on whether you think God forces saving Faith upon anyone

Nope no force, it comes naturally from the New Birth, the New Man, its given as the Gift of God

..or instead makes Faith in Christ available to us, but that we can nevertheless turn our backs on Him and die in our sins.

No such thing as faith being made available, neither can a person Christ died for die in their sins, Christ already died for their sins

My reply was meant to avoid adopting either of those views but to stress that, in any case, we are not able to turn to God strictly by our own abilities and/or strength

God turns His People by the New Birth, otherwise we are spiritually dead.

 

[Nazareth]

In rom 4:5 Paul wants us to believe in someone who "justifies the ungodly", i was just wondering who that is, exactly?

I agree it is confusing what with this verse in the OT.
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

How can the Romans verse be Israel's God given that verse that preceded the NT?

 

[brightfame52]

To be Justified by Faith we have Peace with God !

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

To be Justified by Faith we have Peace with God : But now Christ is Our Peace with God before We believe Eph 2:14 However ones Peace consciously or knowingly comes through our believing after it is revealed , by the Power of the Holy Spirit Rom 15:13

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.4

 

[brightfame52]

Now Being Justified by His Blood !

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Being rendered Righteous by His Blood. Now what Paul means is that God has imputed Righteousness to everyone Christ has died for, which also ensures they all will be saved from wrath [second death] through Him. No one Christ died shall ever see the Wrath of God ! 1 Thess 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Fact that Christ was raised from the dead after dying for all those He died for, that fact ensures they all shall be and even are delivered from the Wrath to come ! Rom 4:25 tells us all whom He died, that His resurrection in their behalf evidences their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats why Paul says " Now being Justified by His Blood" because the resurrection proved that the Blood did just that ! Isa writes Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He Justified many because He bear their iniquties or shed His Blood !

The word Justify in Isa 53:11 is the hebrew word tsadaq and means:


to be just, be righteous

a) (Qal)

1) to have a just cause, be in the right

2) to be justified

3) to be just (of God)

4) to be just, be righteous (in conduct and character)

b) (Niphal) to be put or made right, be justified

c) (Piel) justify, make to appear righteous, make someone righteous

d) (Hiphil)

1) to do or bring justice (in administering law)

2) to declare righteous, justify

3) to justify, vindicate the cause of, save

4) to make righteous, turn to righteousness

e) (Hithpael) to justify oneself

So everyone He died for is declared Righteous, so Imputation has taken Place.

This declaration is before Faith or before we believe, for Christ's Blood was accepted by God In satisfaction for all the sins of everyone He died for over 2000 yrs ago, which means our Justification by Christ's Blood is at least that old ! 4

 

[Albion]

albion

No it doesnt, but it reveals who does save, Jesus Christ is the Saviour. So Faith saves by revealing its object, Jesus Christ, you will be wise to listen

Faith does not reveal some other, different, cause of our salvation AND AT THE SAME TIME function as 'the' vehicle God established by which we may be saved from our sins.

Such a conflict as that would be impossible.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith does not reveal some other, different, cause of our salvation AND AT THE SAME TIME function as 'the' vehicle God established by which we may be saved from our sins.

Such a conflict as that would be impossible.

Salvation/The Righteousness of God imputed, is not caused by someone's faith, its revealed to God given Faith Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The object of Faith is Jesus Christ, the Saviour.

 

[Albion]

Salvation/The Righteousness of God imputed, is not caused by someone's faith, its revealed to God given Faith Rom 1:17

All that's being said there is that Faith is imputed and so serves to save the recipient.

If this is still at issue in your mind, go to Romans 1:17 Commentaries: For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." where you will find several explanations of that passage given by experts. Here is a small excerpt taken from the first one you will encounter, by Ellicott:

"(17) The gospel attains its end, the salvation of the believer, by revealing the righteousness of God, i.e., the plan or process designed by Him for men to become just or righteous in His sight. The essential part on man’s side, the beginning and end of that plan, is Faith."

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The object of Faith is Jesus Christ, the Saviour.

Of course it is, but it's still Faith which accomplishes that objective.

 

[brightfame52]

All that's being said there is that Faith is imputed and so serves to save the recipient.

If this is still at issue in your mind, go to Romans 1:17 Commentaries: For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." where you will find several explanations of that passage given by experts. Here is a small excerpt taken from the first one you will encounter, by Ellicott:

"(17) The gospel attains its end, the salvation of the believer, by revealing the righteousness of God, i.e., the plan or process designed by Him for men to become just or righteous in His sight. The essential part on man’s side, the beginning and end of that plan, is Faith."


Of course it is, but it's still Faith which accomplishes that objective.

Im saying what I have always said. Faith doesnt save anyone, doesnt justify anyone, Jesus does ! If Jesus died for a person, they are Justified, then sometime in their life, they will be regenerated and given Faith to believe.

 

[Albion]

Im saying what I have always said.

I'm sure that your belief in this matter remains what it already was, but the information, the wording, that you've offered us more recently shows that your belief is mistaken. That's what I was pointing to.

Faith doesnt save anyone, doesnt justify anyone, Jesus does !

That's like saying the medicine that the doctor gave you didn't do anything and played no part in your recovery, but it's the doctor who cured you by the force of his will.

God has established various means by which we creatures of flesh and blood relate to him, and when it comes to salvation, the process is us believing and trusting in Christ by Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm sure that your belief in this matter remains what it already was, but the information, the wording, that you've offered us more recently shows that your belief is mistaken. That's what I was pointing to.


That's like saying the medicine that the doctor gave you didn't do anything and played no part in your recovery, but it's the doctor who cured you by the force of his will.

God has established various means by which we creatures of flesh and blood relate to him, and when it comes to salvation, the process is us believing and trusting in Christ by Faith.

Like I said, Faith Looks to Christ who is the Saviour. Faith doesnt save anyone, didnt die for nobodys sins, didnt shed any blood. You not trusting in Jesus Christ but your act of faith. Not good

 

[Nazareth]

Im saying what I have always said. Faith doesnt save anyone, doesnt justify anyone, Jesus does ! If Jesus died for a person, they are Justified, then sometime in their life, they will be regenerated and given Faith to believe.

Am I saved if I don't have faith in Jesus?

 

[brightfame52]

Am I saved if I don't have faith in Jesus?

Theres no proof that you are if God hasnt given you faith in Jesus. The people Christ died for and Justified will sooner or later be given Faith as an evidence.

But understand, one who Christ died for is still Justified before God even before they are given Faith, they are given Faith because they already were Justified solely by the death of Christ. Please read this thread and my comments within it, I go into details.