Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[Matthew ten Verseight]

You're equating the communal meal, which congregations at the time regularly participated in, with the sacred meal, the Lord's Supper.

Revelation 1:10 does,

No it does not. Here is the context (local and global) of Revelation 1:10:

The context shows that the "day" spoken of, in each texts presented is "the LORD('s)". John as a physical Jew, who was following the Messiah (Jesus), thus a Christian, was on the Isle of Patmos, for what reason?

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.​

​

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

It is even given in other places:

Rev_6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:​

​

Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

What is this "word of God" and the "testimony/witness of Jesus"? We do not have to in any way guess, for John tells us in parallel fashion:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

This is found way back in the OT:

Deu_4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

So, when John references "the Lord's day", it is in the context of "the word of God", which are God's Commandments. Well, which commandment then? Again, we do not have to guess, for John tells us:

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

​

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

What specific commandment, was John citing? The 4th Commandment, specifically, Exodus 20:11,

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

The whole Commandment:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.​

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:​

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:​

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

That little word "of" is possessive. Thus when God speaks, by His own voice, the He (the LORD) has chosen a specific (definite article) "day", it is thus "the LORD('s) ... day", being His sabbath, the 7th day, from the foundation of the world in Genesis 2:1-3,4, where therein it is "God('s; the LORD's) ... day".

The "word of God" = God's commandments:

Isa_1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.​

and the "testimony of Jesus" is the Spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10), and as found all throughout scripture:

2Ki_17:13 Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.​

​

Psa_19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.​

​

Psa_78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children​

​

Pro_29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.:​

​

Isa_8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.​

​

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​

​

Lam_2:9 Her gates are sunk into the ground; he hath destroyed and broken her bars: her king and her princes are among the Gentiles: the law is no more; her prophets also find no vision from the LORD.​

​

Eze_7:26 Mischief shall come upon mischief, and rumour shall be upon rumour; then shall they seek a vision of the prophet; but the law shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the ancients.​

​

Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.​

​

Rom_3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;​

Therefore, notice again the connection of the Apostle and prophet John, who receives a "vision", in connection with keeping God's commandments, and was resting specifically on "the LORD's day":

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,​

The Law (Lord's day) and the testimony (spirit of prophecy) again are witnessed therein in its proper context.

It always speaks of the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD, His holy day.

Line upon line, and no need for a single non-scriptural source to re-define by the man of sin's tradition."

... continued ...

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

You're equating the communal meal, which congregations at the time regularly participated in, with the sacred meal, the Lord's Supper.

Revelation 1:10 does,

No it does not. Here is the context (local and global) of Revelation 1:10:

Some have said that "the Lord's day" is simply unique, and that if John (in Revelation 1:10) had meant "sabbath" he would have written "sabbath". This is actually presumption, based upon a false apriori, about what certain individuals themselves think the Holy Ghost/Spirit ought to have inspired John to write. Beware, that is a very dangerous path to take. They also say that "sabbath" is always called "sabbath" in the NT.

Actually, No. The "sabbath" is called "sabbath" in the NT, that is for certain:

Matthew 12:1,2,5,8,10,11,12, 24:20, 28:1;​

Mark 1:21, 2:23,24,27,28, 3:2,4, 6:2, 7:6-9, 15:42, 16:1;​

Luke 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14,15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56;​

John 5:9,10,16,18, 7:22,23, 9:14,16, 12:1 (calculated), 19:31;​

Acts 1:2, 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4;​

Yet, it is also called God's "rest":

Hebrews 3:11,18, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11​

It is also called "the seventh day":

Hebrews 4:4​

It is called "the seventh":

​

Hebrews 4:4​

It is also referred to as being "according to the commandment":

​

Luke 23:56​

It is also referred to as the culmination of the 7 day week:

​

Matthew 28:1(a) - (Koine Greek) οψε δε σαββατων (Transliterated) oye de sabbatwn​

Matthew 28:1(b) - (Koine Greek) εις μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) eiV mian sabbatwn​

Mark 16:2 - (Koine Greek) και λιαν πρωι της μιας σαββατων (Transliterated) kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn​

Mark 16:9 - (Koine Greek) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου (Transliterated) anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou​

Luke 24:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​

John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​

John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn​

Acts 20:7 - (Koine Greek) εν δε τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) en de th mia twn sabbatwn​

1 Corinthians 16:2 - (Koine Greek) κατα μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) kata mian sabbatwn​

It is also referred to as "the day (that is approaching in the week (also the great Cosmic final day, dual use)"

Hebrews 10:25​

All of which terms are also used in the OT, as the OT and NT are in perfect harmony.

The Phrase "the Lord's day" is found in use in the OT, as shown from Isaiah 58:13, etc. John is not making up any novel (new) idea, but the Holy Ghost is inspiring and citing from the OT scriptures, as is done all over Revelation 1. Called an "epanados" or Chiasm:

(1) Isaiah 55:4 --> Revelation 1:5 (Witness)​

​

(2) Daniel 7:13 --> Revelation 1:7 (Coming with Clouds of angels)​

​

(3) Zechariah 12:10-14 --> Revelation 1:7 (Pierced and Wail)​

​

(4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:8 (I AM)​

​

(5) Isaiah 58:13 --> Revelation 1:10 (The Lord's day)​

​

(4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:11 (I AM)​

​

(3) Zechariah 4:2 --> Revelation 1:12 (Candlestick, Sanctuary, HolyPlace)​

​

(2) Daniel 7:9,13,22 --> Revelation 1:13-15 (Priest)​

​

(1) Isaiah 49:2 --> Revelation 1:16 (Sharp Sword)​

Revelation 1:10 is simply citing Isaiah 58:13 in the midst of the parallelism from the OT.

Isaiah 58:13

KJB - "... my [context, the LORD's] holy day ..."​

CJB - “... Adonai’s holy day ..."​

ERV - "... the Lord’s special day ..."​

EXB - “... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

GW - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

ICB - “... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

ISV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

TLB - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

MSG - "... God’s holy day ..."​

NOG - "... Yahweh’s holy day ..."​

NABRE - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

NCV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

NET - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

NIRV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

NIV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

NIVUK - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

NLT - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​

TPT - "... Yahweh’s holy day ..."​

​

This is irrefutable, by the context and structure itself.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

There is so much wrong with that analysis. For one, Paul's role in that particular service was special, but that's all that you have shown us.

And if you were right, I'd expect the experts on Scripture and history to be backing you up, but they don't. Just lackeys of the Roman Catholic Church (which has nothing to do with this)...isn't that the explanation for everything?

Beware, scripture warns as it did in the past about such leaving the word of God for the doctrines of men:

Mal 2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.​

Mal 2:12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts.​

Commentaries are not scripture. I do not care what others have said. I care what scripture plainly says (Isaiah 8:20), for it is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice. If you choose the words of men outside of that, well, that is your prerogative. It isn't safe. Men have left off keeping God's commandments, for the traditions of men. As it was in the days of Isaiah, as it was in the days of Malachi, as it was in the days of Jesus, so too today.

If you want some historical context, here it is for you:

Latin:

"... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ..." - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf​

Translated English:

"... Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [Sylvester] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the [counterfeit] "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to [counterfeit] the Lord's day [Sunday], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ..." - http://biblelight.net/sylvester-I.htm or http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/notsun.htm (you might have to use Wayback Machine on Internet Archive)​

​

I have plenty more of such actual historical quotations.

Philip Melanchthon said the same:

Philip Melanchthon on Daniel 7:25 -

"... But what meaneth the aungell to saye: He shall s•arle or destroye ye hyghe sayn∣tis? verely els but that with his false doctryne capciouse othes articles / & in∣terrogacions he shall fraudelently de∣ceyue and trappe the simple innocents and shed their blode tyrannously. Also he shall arrogantly take vpon him & thin∣ke to change the state of tymes and la∣wes. He weneth to change ye tyme which with swerde and fyer thinketh to shorten the lyfe of man and to preuent and disa∣point gods infallible eternall and immu∣table prouidēce wherby he hath prefiyed euery manis tyme & houre of deth which as noman can differre or prolong it / so cā∣ne noman shorten nor preuent it / except men will make God an ignorant persone and so consequently no god at all. He chā∣geth the tymes and lawes that any of the [page 118-119] sixe worke dayes commanded of god will make them vnholy and idle dayes when he lyste / or of their owne holy dayes abo∣lisshed / make* worke dayes agen / & when they changed ye Saterday into Sondaye / of eting dayes fasting dayes / of mery and glad dayes to marye in / they can make so∣rowfull dayes forbiddinge maryages. They haue changed gods lawes and tur∣ned them into their owne tradiciōs to be kept aboue Gods preceptis. And as for their owne lawes they will change & bre∣ke them when they lyste. And this powr shal anticrist haue whether it be for long or shorte tyme. For so miche sowneth the Hebrew phrase / which is for a tyme / a lyt∣le whyle / & half a tyme / signifyinge that Anticryst shall make lawes to stande as long and as shorte tyme as he listeth and the tymes will he order / sett and change at his owne plesur. But is it not onely ye office of god to chang tymes and lawes? Here is therfore the prophecye fulfylled of him. Euen to exalt himselfe aboue all thing that god is called. This text. But the hyghe saynts he shall tangle trappe & destroye and arrogantly thinke to chan∣ge the tymes and lawes &c. is of diuerse lerned men diuersely translated. ..." - The exposicion of Daniel the prophete gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Iohan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Iohan Draconite. [et] c. By George Ioye. A prophecye diligently to be noted of al emprowrs [and] kinges in these laste dayes​

Our Day in the Light of Prophecy

books.google.com

Looks like William Ambrose Spicer (SDA) found it way back in 1918 - https://books.google.com/books?id=u...nielem changed the saturday to Sunday&f=false

Page 154. So it has a cleaner English.

Looks like Stephen Bohr, also has it listed [PDF 175] - http://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/All of Pastor Bohr's Study Notes/BDAN.pdf

Looks like Roy Allen Anderson also has it listed (page 95) - https://books.google.com/books?id=A...ved=0ahUKEwjzyfuA_pPdAhXzwMQHHZZHAyoQ6AEIJzAA

 

[tango]

But even if the breaking of bread mentioned always did refer to the Lord’s Supper - and there is nothing in scripture which says that it does - it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first day of the week, because - as has been previously mentioned - Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.


And no where does scripture ever refer to the first day of the week as the "Lord's Day".

If they broke bread every day presumably it suggests that no one day is inherently more significant than any other day, when following Christ's commands.

No, we couldn't. The scripture defines who "the man" is.

Who was the Sabbath made for according to scripture?

"...The sabbath was made for man..." [Mark 2:27p].

"The sabbath", this is the 7th Day of the LORD thy GOD [Greek: "σαββατον" from "σάββατον, sabbaton", see also the so-called LXX [hexapla] Exodus 20:8-11 and directly compare vs. 10-11 to Genesis 2:2-3, and compare also so-called LXX Exodus 16:23];​

​

"made", this directly references Creation [Greek: "εγενετο" from "γίνομαι, ginomai", see also Genesis 1:3,5-6,8-9,11,13,15,19-20,23-24,30-31, 2:4,7 so-called LXX for "εγενετο"];​

​

"for (the) man", this directly references Adam at Creation [Greek: "ανθρωπο" from "ἄνθρωπος, anthrōpos", see also Genesis 1:26-27; 2:5,7-8,15,18,24 so-called LXX for "ανθρωπο"]​

Yes, there is the Adam at Genesis, but it is really the greater Adam:

Mar_2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for (the) man, and not (the) man for the sabbath:​

​

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:​

​

Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.​

​

Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)​

​

1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

​

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.​

​

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.​

​

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.​

Did you see who the Sabbath was made for? All in Adam the first (humanity), the natural man, and especially all in Adam the last, Jesus Christ, the spiritual man, for the Law of God (Exodus 20:1-17; Romans 7:7) is spiritual (Romans 7:14).

Part 1 - The Creator Of Rest

In the beginning, on the seventh day after all His work, the LORD God did rest,​

and turning to the man there with Him, saying, this is what I have blessed;​

and down through the long ages, it would remain the gift from Heaven,​

holy and sanctified, the day the Creator spent with man - seven;​

a vast temple of sacred time, enclosed for the faithful steward to keep,​

knowing the Shepherd worked tirelessly, to have a place for all His precious sheep;​

peace-filled and tranquil, calm and nothing over to be stressed,​

Oh!, what special Day with our Father!, this Sabbath of His glorious rest.​

Part 1 - The Creator Of Rest

With respect, here it looks like you're one of many posters who dumps endless Bible verses without even attempting to explain how or even whether they are relevant. Quoting endless sources in a big long list with nothing else doesn't make for a coherent argument.

If you'd like to present something that looks like it came from you I'll read it. If not I'll save my time.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

If you'd like to present something that looks like it came from you I'll read it

I wrote every last bit of it. I simply cited myself (other citations I quote therein are properly given). Now, let's see you hold up to your words.

 

[tango]

I wrote every last bit of it. I simply cited myself (other citations I quote therein are properly given). Now, let's see you hold up to your words.

You did? Most of it looked more like a dump of random Bible verses with no indication of how or even whether they were relevant. Would you care to explain how they are relevant?

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

You did? ...

Yes. now will you honour your word in which you said, "... present something that looks like it came from you I'll read it." My word is true. How is yours?

 

[rstrats]

You're equating the communal meal, which congregations at the time regularly participated in, with the sacred meal, the Lord's Supper.

Please explain how you know that the "breaking of bread" mentioned in Acts 20:7 has to be referring to the Lord's Supper instead of simply to a communal meal?

Revelation 1:10 does,

Revelation 1:10 - "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

Please explain where the verse says that the Lord's Day is referring to the 1st day of the week?

 

[NathanH83]

Saturday is Sabbath. But Sunday is the Lord’s day.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

Saturday is Sabbath. But Sunday is the Lord’s day.

Actually "Saturday" is not 'technically' "Sabbath", as the two are differing measurements of time. The first, "Saturday" is based in Roman time (midnight to midnight), and the other, "Sabbath" is based in God's (or Scriptural) time, being sunset to sunset (evening followed by morning unto evening). The two timeframes actually overlap, but are not exactly the same time.

Sunday, is nowhere in scripture (KJB) called "the Lord's day". It has been demonstrated that "the Lord's day" (Revelation 1:10, citing Isaiah 58:13) is the Sabbath of the LORD, the 7th day, not the first [day] of the week. You may see that here:

[1] Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[2] Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[3] Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[4] Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[5] Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[6] Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Stravinsk]

@Matthew ten Verseight

Tell us how you find your Sabbath in a situation where you are disoriented (such as knocked unconscious and wake up not knowing what day it is), without a time piece, and without a way to communicate with someone who knows what day it is.

Is your holy day then based on guesswork?

I don't suppose this question comes up too often on Saturn'sday gatherings with your brethren. I asked a 7th day pastor once, he couldn't give me a solid answer.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

@Matthew ten Verseight

Tell us how you find your Sabbath in a situation where you are disoriented (such as knocked unconscious and wake up not knowing what day it is), without a time piece, and without a way to communicate with someone who knows what day it is.

Is your holy day then based on guesswork?

I don't suppose this question comes up too often on Saturn'sday gatherings with your brethren. I asked a 7th day pastor once, he couldn't give me a solid answer.

I am glad I am no such "pastor". Doesn't sound like much of one to me. Well, Wheat and Tares ...

What "if" scenarios, I normally do not bother with, but since you seem like you really want an answer (you do, don't you???). The scripture gives the answer, for you see, no real Seventh-day Adventist is ever truly alone, neither reliant upon their wisdom, nor self. There is a God in Heaven, who answers prayer, and sends angels (even to Jesus in the wilderness, when He was at the end of His own strength, and combat with the devil, and likewise in the Garden of Gethsemane)

​

Jas_1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.​

Jas_1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.​

Have ye never read that, "... there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known ..." (Daniel 2:28)

The answer to your "question" isn't difficult if you know the true God of Heaven, who loves His children, especially those who seek Him in earnest prayer.

God never guesses. He knows. God never withholds the truth to those who diligently and humbly seek Him. I already know by experience you see. For I was already in darkness. I was already unconscious in my sins. I was already in a daze by iniquity. I was hopelessly lost in the time of this world, not knowing the 7th day in truth, neither when the Sabbath of the Lord was, BUT ...

... when, by the grace of God, I called upon the name of the LORD, Jesus Christ! He lifted me up. Cleaned me off. Told me the truth, and set me free, and now I know what time it is. I know when the Sabbath of the LORD is. And all this, simply because He first loved me.

If only you knew Him as I knew Him. If only you knew what time it is.

 

[rstrats]

Matthew ten Verseight,

Stravinsk's stipulation is "...without a way to communicate with someone who knows what day it is." Your answer requires the way of communicating with someone through prayer which violates the stipulation.

 

[Stravinsk]

I am glad I am no such "pastor". Doesn't sound like much of one to me. Well, Wheat and Tares ...

What "if" scenarios, I normally do not bother with, but since you seem like you really want an answer (you do, don't you???). The scripture gives the answer, for you see, no real Seventh-day Adventist is ever truly alone, neither reliant upon their wisdom, nor self. There is a God in Heaven, who answers prayer, and sends angels (even to Jesus in the wilderness, when He was at the end of His own strength, and combat with the devil, and likewise in the Garden of Gethsemane)

​

Jas_1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.​

Jas_1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.​

Have ye never read that, "... there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known ..." (Daniel 2:28)

The answer to your "question" isn't difficult if you know the true God of Heaven, who loves His children, especially those who seek Him in earnest prayer.

God never guesses. He knows. God never withholds the truth to those who diligently and humbly seek Him. I already know by experience you see. For I was already in darkness. I was already unconscious in my sins. I was already in a daze by iniquity. I was hopelessly lost in the time of this world, not knowing the 7th day in truth, neither when the Sabbath of the Lord was, BUT ...

... when, by the grace of God, I called upon the name of the LORD, Jesus Christ! He lifted me up. Cleaned me off. Told me the truth, and set me free, and now I know what time it is. I know when the Sabbath of the LORD is. And all this, simply because He first loved me.

If only you knew Him as I knew Him. If only you knew what time it is.

Hmm. Yes, well at least the pastor I spoke with admitted he wasn't really quite sure. He didn't feed me a load of bollocks like you just did. No matter how you dress it up, lying is still lying.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

Hmm. Yes, well at least the pastor I spoke with admitted he wasn't really quite sure. He didn't feed me a load of bollocks like you just did. No matter how you dress it up, lying is still lying.

William Miller was like you (a 'Deist') once.

Official 'Tell the World' Feature Film

God's prophecies changed him forever, and he came to know for certain of His Father in Heaven, as well the Son and Holy Ghost, and the closeness of Deity (God) to humanity.

Call me what you will, but my record is written on High. I leave my case to Him.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

Matthew ten Verseight,

Stravinsk's stipulation is "...without a way to communicate with someone who knows what day it is." Your answer requires the way of communicating with someone through prayer which violates the stipulation.

If only you didn't deny the Creation (and thus Creators work) all around you and in you.

http://supernaturalresources.epizy.com/created-with-purpose-creation-to-redemption-history/

Don Patton Co Existence Of Man And Dinosaurs (all 4 Videos) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Don Patton Co Existence Of Man And Dinosaurs (all 4 Videos)

archive.org

Just scroll down and see what interests you.

Matthew_ten_Verseight

The Great Clock of Time: God works upon the plan of 7, from Genesis 1:1 - 2:3 unto Revelation and the final scenes. 6 of work, and the 7th of rest, for even the devil knew how long he had to work, Revelation 12:12. Age of the Earth (PDF) -...

www.bitchute.com

The only way that I would not be able to pray, and have communication with God, is if I denied Him, like you are doing now (Romans 1). The Bible even speaks of the "atheoi" (Ephesians 2:12, those who are "without God" in this world, not because they had to be, but because they chose to be, and God granted them their own desire). You can choose otherwise, you know.

 

[Stravinsk]

Matthew ten Verseight,

Stravinsk's stipulation is "...without a way to communicate with someone who knows what day it is." Your answer requires the way of communicating with someone through prayer which violates the stipulation.

Matthew could answer the question now, if he chose, since his words indicate he's right up there on God's "to answer" list. But he doesn't, because he doesn't have an answer. His answer is basically "if you had the spiritual acumen I had...you'd *know*! But you don't of course, such secrets are between me and the Almighty, and even if I don't say so outright, I'll insinuate it. Lowly Deists and Atheists, you deny the true God and Creation! See, here...this Ephesians passage proves it!"

I honestly wonder if anyone is as impressed with him as he assumes they must be.

 

[rstrats]

The only way that I would not be able to pray, and have communication with God, is if I denied Him...

But again, the stipulation is that you don't have a way, so Stravinsk's question doesn't apply to you.

BTW, you say that there are "those who are 'without God' in this world, not because they had to be, but because they chose to be, and God granted them their own desire). You can choose otherwise, you know."

Are you suggesting that a person has the ability to consciously choose to believe things?

 

[tango]

Yes. now will you honour your word in which you said, "... present something that looks like it came from you I'll read it." My word is true. How is yours?

My words, that you selectively bolded, said "present something that looks like it came from you" and, as I said, what you presented looks like a dump of a bunch of Bible verses (I'm assuming you didn't author the text of Scripture). Perhaps you'd like to take me up on the offer to explain how, and indeed whether, your endless lists of Bible verses are relevant to the discussion.

Otherwise I'm not sure just what response you expect to a random list of Scripture verses. I could just dump a bunch of random verses in a response of my own but it's hard to see how one set of verses of questionable relevance is clarified by adding more verses of similarly limited relevance.

Since you revert to endlessly repeating your mantra without even attempting to explain the relevance of what you already posted, I'm really struggling to see any point continuing to engage you in discussion. Feel free to explain the relevance, I won't hold my breath.

 

[Albion]

Please explain how you know that the "breaking of bread" mentioned in Acts 20:7 has to be referring to the Lord's Supper instead of simply to a communal meal?

This link explains the matter well--

What Does The Breaking of The Bread Mean In Acts 2:42 and 20:7? — The Gospel of Christ

It has been assumed that all references to "breaking bread" (Luke 24:35, Acts 2:42, Acts 2:46, Acts 20:7, and 1 Corinthians 10:16) in the New Testament are referring to a common meal and never refer to the Lord's Supper. As a result, it is denied that the "breaking of the bread"

www.thegospelofchrist.com

Revelation 1:10 - "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

Please explain where the verse says that the Lord's Day is referring to the 1st day of the week?

By the time of John's Revelation, the term was well-known as a reference to Sunday.