Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[Matthew ten Verseight]

The many times that the "Sabbath" of the LORD is given in the Old Testament (Genesis to Malachi)

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Genesis 2:1-3; (see also, Genesis 18:19, 26:5, &c.)​

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The sabbath commandment in the beginning with God (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Psalms 119:142).​

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The sabbath commandment with Adam (Mark 2:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14).​

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The sabbath commandment with Enoch (Genesis 5:22,24; Hebrews 11:5; Isaiah 58:13)​

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The sabbath commandment with Noah (Genesis 6:9; 2 Peter 2:5; Psalms 119:172).​

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The sabbath commandment with Eber (Genesis 10:21,24-25; Exodus 3:18, 5:3, 7:16).​

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The sabbath commandment with Abraham (Genesis 17:9, 18:19, 26:5; 2 Chronicles 20:7; Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23; John 15:14).​

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The sabbath commandment with Isaac (Genesis 17:9, 18:19, 26:5).​

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The sabbath commandment with Jacob/Israel (Genesis 17:9, 18:19, 26:5, 32:28).​

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The sabbath commandment with Moses (Exodus 5:4-5;, 16:1-36, 20:8-11; Deuteornomy 5:12-15, 31:12-18). ...​

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The sabbath commandment with Jesus (Luke 4:16-19).​

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The sabbath commandment with the Apostles/Disciples (Acts 1:2, (4:24), 13:14,27,42,44, (14:15), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4; Hebrews 3:11,18, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11; Revelation 1:10, 10:6, 12:17, 14:6-7)​

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The sabbath commandment with us today (Hebrews 4:9; Revelation 12:17, 14:6-7; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6,8-11).​

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The sabbath commandment on into eternity (Isaiah 66:23).​

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Exodus 5:4-5,8-9, 16:23-30, 20:8-11, 23:12, 31:12-18, 34:21, 35:1-3​

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Leviticus 19:3,30, 23:3,11,15-16,38, 24:8, 26:2​

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Numbers 15:32, 28:9​

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Deuteronomy 5:12-15​

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2 Kings 4:23, 11:5,7,9, 16:18​

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1 Chronicles 9:32, 23:31​

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2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 23:4,8, 31:3​

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Nehemiah 9:6,14, 10:31,33, 13:15-22​

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Psalms 92:1, 146:6​

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Isaiah 56:2,4,6, 58:13, 66:23​

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Jeremiah 17:21-27​

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Ezekiel 20:12-24, 22:8,26, 23:38, 44:24, 46:1,3-4,12​

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Amos 8:5​

The many times that the "Sabbath" of the LORD is given in the New Testament:

Matthew 12:1,2,5,8,10,11,12, 24:20, 28:1;​

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Mark 1:21, 2:23,24,27,28, 3:2,4, 6:2, 7:6-9, 15:42, 16:1;​

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Luke 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14,15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56;​

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John 5:9,10,16,18, 7:22,23, 9:14,16, 12:1 (calculated), 19:31;​

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Acts 1:2, 4:24 (citing Exodus 20:11), 13:14,27,42,44, 14:15 (citing Exodus 20:11), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4;​

Additional references are:

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John 12:1 (six days before the Passover, Jesus was at Lazarus' house, on Sabbath)​

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Hebrews 3:11, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11; [Hebrews 4:9 "rest" Greek: sabbatismos, literal sabbath-keeping]​

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Revelation 1:10 [kuriake hemera, "the Lord's Day" [the 7th Day Sabbath, not "the Day of the Lord", this is totally different in the Greek], see Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Deuteronomy 5:12:15, Isaiah 58:13, 66:23, Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:27,28; Luke 6:5 ],​

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Revelation 10:6 [see also Exodus 20:11, 31:17; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalms 146:6; Acts 4:24, 14:15, Revelation 14:7];​

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Revelation 14:7 [see previous], etc.​

Additionally, further references in the Greek are [every single 'first [day] of the week' text, as each text clearly shows that the first day is simply a number, with no special association or designation, other than it is simply one day toward the culmination of the week, being the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God]:

Genesis 1:5 (Masoretes Hebrew) יום אחד׃ (Transliterated) yôm echäd f​

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Matthew 28:1(a) - (Koine Greek) οψε δε σαββατων (Transliterated) oye de sabbatwn​

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Matthew 28:1(b) - (Koine Greek) εις μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) eiV mian sabbatwn​

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Mark 16:2 - (Koine Greek) και λιαν πρωι της μιας σαββατων (Transliterated) kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn​

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Mark 16:9 - (Koine Greek) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου (Transliterated) anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou​

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Luke 24:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​

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John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​

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John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn​

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Acts 20:7 - (Koine Greek) εν δε τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) en de th mia twn sabbatwn​

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1 Corinthians 16:2 - (Koine Greek) κατα μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) kata mian sabbatwn​

That the Sabbath [of the Lord thy God], [being] the 7th day, is always the culmination of the week in God's Created order and is always referred to as such in all of scripture.

Therefore, every single “first [day] of the week” text upholds the 7th Day Sabbath, and is undeniable evidence of its continued existence and prominence.

The body of believers may gather on any and every day with no injunction anywhere found in scripture against such, and in truth they met "daily", "continually", etc (Mat 26:55; Mar 14:49; Luk 22:53, 24:33,36; Acts 19:9) and likewise among the followers of Jesus Christ (Luk 24:51,53; Acts 1:3,9, 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 17:11,17; Heb 3:13, etc). None of that extra gathering, is qualification of disobedience to (breaking) the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17), especially the 4th (Exodus 20:8-11) in its explicit command to "rest" and not "work" "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD". As for instance, we met last night for prayer meeting. It does not replace my need to obey the 4th commandment and fulfill its requirements by and in the grace of God and the Holy Ghost (Romans 8:4).

Just in the book of Acts alone, there are over 78 sabbaths explicitly recorded.

Acts 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4, (20:6, 21:4, 28:14; Paul always waited seven days, so that he could keep the Sabbath with fellow Jews, and Proselytes (see Acts 2:10; 13:26,42-43,44,45-46,47-49, 14:1,2,15-16, 15:17,19,21, 17:17) and preach the gospel upon that sacred day (Acts 17:2), just as Jesus had; Luke 4:16-21).

John was still keeping the sabbath (of the LORD, the 7th day, "the Lord's day"; Revelation 1:10; Isaiah 58:13; just as Jesus had said so long before; Matthew 24:20) in AD 90+.

The first day of the week was no more special than any other of the six working days. Yet the sabbath, the 7th day, the Lord's day was always special, always gathered on and therein rested.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

Some attempt to justify their disregard for the 7th day the sabbath, because of so called 'ecf' (easily confused fellows', but when considering even these, we find forgeries, misquotations, misrepresentations, mistranslations, etc. For instance, some cite:

Justin Martyr, Apologia 1, LXVII, circa 150 AD

Which is cited from the forged portion, Chapter 67 (LXVII). It is "known only from the unreliable manuscript A (Parisinus graecus 450, of 1364 [that's 14th Cent.])" [1] [emphasis supplied, brackets added], see that here - http://heidiheiks.com/pdf/Contributors Documents/William Shea/Justin_Martyr_forgery.pdf

Doctrine - Sabbath - William H Shea - The Justin Martyr Forgery About Sabbath And Sunday The First Day Of The Week : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

https://archive.org/download/sda-wi... - William H Shea - Justin Martyr Forgery.pdf

Others rely upon other 'ecf' documents, but these too have serious issues, see Bob Pickle's Church Father's research: Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

Another thing I have found, is that people attempt to define "the Lord's day", not by scripture, as is proper (Isaiah 8:20), by the so-called "ecf" (easily confused fellows; of the 1-4th century AD, etc), instead of going back to the real "fathers"; the Patriarchs and Prophets of Scripture themselves, like John, James and Peter and Paul, and even further back unto Abraham, Moses, David, and those like them, and have those "fathers" tell us, as mouthpieces for God. I find them in the inspired and preserved words of God, and I do not find people like spurious Ignatius, imaginary Didache, self-refuting pseudo Barnabas, etc.

They would place those persons in afteryears above the definition that Jesus, by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, gave.

Spurious and Imaginary?

Yes, Spurious, Imaginary, etc:

The Bible says:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

God even warned all that they would "think" to "change times and laws" (of which the 4th Commandment, the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD is both time and law) of the Most High God:

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.​

Notice some of the fraud:

Here is the long form of the citation, since there are several conflicting:

"... For if we still live according to the Jewish law, and the circumcision of the flesh, we deny that we have received grace.—ch. 8.​

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But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week].—ch. 9.​

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It is absurd to speak of Jesus Christ with the tongue, and to cherish in the mind a Judaism which has now come to an end. For where there is Christianity there cannot be Judaism.—ch. 10.​

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These things [I address to you], my beloved, not that I know any of you to be in such a state; but, as less than any of you, I desire to guard you beforehand, that ye fall not upon the hooks of vain doctrine, but that you may rather attain to a full assurance in Christ . . . .—ch. 11. ..." - Philip Schaff: ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library​

Let's examine the longer form first, with which the reader will immediately notice a severe problem. The very quote that is supposed to prove that "Christians . . . never [worshipped] on the Sabbath" actually commands "every" Christian to "keep the Sabbath"! Moreover, since the quote also forbids Judaizing, it follows that the writer of the long form of this epistle believed that Sabbath keeping transcended Judiaism. In other words, a Christian could tell people that they needed to keep the Sabbath without being guilty of Judaizing!

The words "and after the observance of the Sabbath" were intentionally deleted from the quote by those who normally cite this. Another example of fraud?

Now to the other shorter form. The epistles of Ignatius are spurious or forgeries - The Ignatian Forgeries: They claim to be written by Ignatius in 110 AD, but were forged by another in about 250 AD that deceptively claimed to be Ignatius. or https://depts.drew.edu/jhc/KillenIgnatius.pdf

Amazing, having to rely upon spurious writings, pseudo-works, which are forgeries.

The original Greek (Didache 14:1) does not have the word for "day" anywhere in that sentence and secondly, neither is the word "Sunday" present.

"... 1. Κατὰ κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου συναχθέντες κλάσατε ἄρτον καὶ εὐχαριστήσατε, προεξομολογησάμενοι τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν, ὅπως καθαρὰ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν ᾐ. ..." - The Twelve Apostles-Didache​

Where is the word for "day" (hemera)?

Where is the word for "Sunday"?

Where is the word "first"?

It literally reads, "κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου" (Lord of Lord).

The translation that most propose to prove Sunday sacredness or that it is the 'Lord's day' is imaginary.

Two points can be made:

1. The Greek word for "day" does not even appear in the passage. It has been 'added' by the translators (usually 'catholics')
2. Even if the addition of the word "day" is correct, the passage does not specifically say which day is meant by the Lord's day. It could just as well refer to the Sabbath, the 7th day, since that is the only day the Bible says belongs to the Lord.

So far, we have spurious and imaginary.

Then they attempt Pseudo Barnabas:

According to pseudo-Barnabas (ought we to really trust a letter that claims to be from another, didn't Paul warn about such letters being circulated? 2 Thessalonians 2:2), we are too wicked (Christians are too wicked???) at present to keep the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD, and will not be able to keep it until we are sanctified when Christ returns (so we are going to keep Sabbath again in the New Heavens and New Earth, that doesn't sound like what people normally use this quote for at all). Because we are too wicked to keep the Sabbath now, we must keep Sunday instead. What good does this reasoning do for the cause of Sunday sacredness or holiness if we are too wicked?

Pseudo Barnabas also teaches the earth ends in the 7,000th year from creation. Do they accept this also?, No, as they believe in the false philosophy of evolutionism and long-agism. Amazing, they complain of Protestants rejecting portions of the 'ecf', when they themselves do the very thing Protestants are accused of. Uneven scales. Unequal judgment. Unbalanced measurements of weights.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

Here is a listing of 'reasons' (all contradictory to one another) given for not Honouring the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) of God:

Calendar has been Changed​

Christ is the End of the Law ...​

Early Church Fathers Citations​

Every Day is Holy​

History of the Church​

International Dateline (Dayline)​

Jesus Broke the Sabbath​

Jesus Fulfilled the Law​

Jesus Kept the Sabbath for me, so I do not now have to​

Jesus Nailed the Sabbath to the Cross​

Jesus is my Sabbath​

Jesus Rose from the Dead on the First Day of the Week, Ending the Sabbath​

Jesus Rose from the Dead on the First Day of the Week, Making it the New Sabbath​

Livelihood - gotta keep my job to put food on the table​

Lunar sabbaths​

Nine Commandments Found in the New Testament, but not Sabbath​

No Commandment in Genesis to keep the Sabbath​

No Commandment in the New Testament to keep the Sabbath​

No Commandment to Keep the Sabbath until Exodus 20​

No Evening and Morning on the 7th Day in Genesis​

No Man Kept Sabbath until Moses​

No Word Sabbath in Genesis​

Not to Judge about Sabbath Keeping​

Not Under the Law but Under Grace​

Not Under the Old Covenant (which they say is the Ten Commandments)​

One Day in Seven Is Holy​

Only Two Commandments to Keep Now​

Sabbath was Changed to the LORD's Day (which they say is the first day)​

Sabbath was only for the Hebrews​

Sabbath was only for the Israelites​

Sabbath was only for the Jews​

Sabbath was only temporary​

Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on the International Space Station​

Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on the Poles (North & South)​

Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on a Submarine​

Seventh Day Sabbath was a Shadow of Things to Come​

Stone the Sabbath Breaker​

Sunday is the LORD's Day​

Sunday is the New Order of Sabbaths (Mat. 28:1)​

Sunday is the Sabbath​

Time has been Lost​

Tradition of the Churches​

Under the New Covenant (which they say does not include the Ten Commandments)​

We are in the New Creation, the 8th Day (Ogdoad)​

What is your personal 'reason' as listed above (or if not listed, please list it so it may be added) for rejecting God's explicit words?

Feel free to begin to see the errors of all of these (See Episodes 201-243 by Jeff Dowell) - Jeff Dowell - 201 A Response to Dale Ratzlaff Facing the Critics

 

[pinacled]

You should know better tha than to mimic ben 10

Life is about fellowship

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

Let's compare Paul to Jesus in regards the Sabbath:

Jesus:

Luk_4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.​

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Luk 4:16 και ηλθεν εις την ναζαρεθ ου ην τεθραμμενος και εισηλθεν κατα το ειωθος αυτω εν τη ημερα των σαββατων εις την συναγωγην και ανεστη αναγνωναι​

Paul:

Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,​

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Act 17:2 κατα δε το ειωθος τω παυλω εισηλθεν προς αυτους και επι σαββατα τρια διελεγετο αυτοις απο των γραφων​

What did Paul do that Jesus didn't do? Or what did Paul not do that Jesus did do? In other words, since Jesus is keeping the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD, the Lord's day, by being filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit (see context of Luke 4) and reading from the word of God (scripture), and speaking of the Gospel, what of these things is Paul not doing also, or doing differently than Jesus?

Some attempt to say that Paul only went into a Synagogue on Sabbath to preach the Gospel to the Jews, and that he (Paul) wasn't actually sabbath keeping. Oh really? And what practicing Jew would have allowed Paul to enter a Synagogue (gathering of believers) while not actually keeping the sabbath, or merely in pretense? Paul is merely a pretender? A faker? A deciever? Or is it rather, they are the deceivers, and seek to thrust their own character upon righteous Paul who actually kept the commandment of God (the Sabbath)? Do these people that make such asinine claims, without evidence, and of their own a priori not consider the rest of scripture in which the religious persons would have stoned Paul for such, even as they attempted to do to Jesus, when they falsely accused Him (Jesus) of sabbath breaking? Ask these self-made religionists if Jesus was keeping the sabbath in truth while doing what He (Jesus) was doing in Luke 4, and 9.9/10 will say "Yes." (there is always that .1/10 that will say that Jesus actually transgressed the 4th commandment, and broke the sabbath of God (His Father), contrary to all scripture which clearly states otherwise (demonstrable upon request); for you see they would blasphemously make Jesus out to be the sinner while preserving themselves in their own sin and yet claiming sinlessness, by saying that they are the ones not sinning by transgressing the commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)), and yet turn around having just said, "Yes.", to say that Paul was not keeping Sabbath, but was simply using the day to evangelize. Scripture says, "Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22) Who wrote that under inspiration of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Paul. Hmmm. Then why do these persons have Paul faking something, which to them is evil? What really happens, is that they continually justify their own false position, and dig themselves deeper and deeper into their own self-made pit, just as scripture says that they would do.

Jesus:

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Mat_12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.​

Paul:

Act_16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.​

Walking together out in nature on the sabbath. Sharing the truth with others. Yeah, sounds just like in Genesis, with God and Adam/Eve.

 

[MrW]

Saturday for the Jews; Sunday for most Christians, but if a Christian prefers Saturday, that's fine. Romans 14.

 

[Albion]

If the Sabbath was abolished, there would be many verses and much text to show it, yet there is none. The apostles would have had many discussions and the councils at Jerusalem would have written at least one with a determination of it being abolished and yet there is nothing.

But the Sabbath has not been abolished. Or moved. And Sunday worship was not an invention of the Roman Catholic Church.

So...there appears to be nothing more to report on this particular thread.

 

[NathanH83]

Sabbath is Saturday.
But Sunday is the day Jesus rose from the Dead.

 

[rstrats]

Sabbath is Saturday.
But Sunday is the day Jesus rose from the Dead.

What is your point?

 

[rstrats]

Saturday for the Jews; Sunday for most Christians, but if a Christian prefers Saturday, that's fine. Romans 14.

I don't see where Romans 14 says anything about the Sabbath.

 

[MrW]

It’s there. I checked it before I posted to be sure I had the address correct.

 

[MrW]

But the Sabbath has not been abolished. Or moved. And Sunday worship was not an invention of the Roman Catholic Church.

So...there appears to be nothing more to report on this particular thread.

Not abolished. It’s a sign between God and Israel and is still observed in Israel today, as it should be. It’s not sign between God and the Christian church.

 

[rstrats]

It’s there. I checked it before I posted to be sure I had the address correct.

Please provide the verse which mentions it.

 

[Albion]

Not abolished. It’s a sign between God and Israel and is still observed in Israel today, as it should be. It’s not sign between God and the Christian church.

Yours is a reply that is saying (best I can tell) that the Sabbath cannot be abolished. But my reply was given in response to a post that was claiming that the early Christians wrongly abolished the Sabbath as far as they were concerned. That is a false charge.

 

[MrW]

The sabbath commandment is not repeated in the New Testament, by the Lord Jesus nor any disciple.

 

[MrW]

Read verses 1-13.

 

[rstrats]

Read verses 1-13.

To whom is your post directed, and verses 1-13 of what?

 

[rstrats]

The sabbath commandment is not repeated in the New Testament, by the Lord Jesus nor any disciple.

Hebrews 4:9 - “It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.”

 

[MrW]

The Sabbath is not abolished. It's a sign between God and Israel, not God and the Church. It exists, but is not applicable to the Church. You can still rest on the Sabbath (it was a rest day, not a worship day) and you then you can go to church services on Sunday. End of story.

 

[MrW]

Romans 1:13. Maybe I posted it on the wrong thread. Sorry, if I did.