The GOAL

[Michael]

The "Goal" is any of us being restored to God, the redemption made available through Christ for this is to bring us out and away from life of sin, that is rebellion against God's will for our life, to have relationship with God ongoing in this restoration. It will certainly be forever, through Christ, with our response for it.

The goal in Paul's analogy to a race is our persistence in our living for Christ to not compromise to sinful ways in living.

I agree with what you're saying here, on the surface level of our walk with Jesus. Indeed we are to run our race well and walk in repentance and obedience. But what is our ultimate Goal? What is God's Eternal Goal for His Elect?
In the video I touch on what Jesus taught in John 17, and Paul's ultimate goal which he describes in Phil 3; as well as many other portions of Scripture.
Honestly, what is presented in the video, and is in absolute accordance with the canon of Scripture, especially what Jesus taught, is far beyond what the church at large has known. This is about "Tabernacles", where Jesus is leading those who will go.
For more insight on what I'm saying here, you can watch the video. And I would encourage all who do to study the multitude of Bible passages I mention and see what the Lord would say to you through them.
Peace & Blessings.

 

[Michael]

The "goal" for Christians is to reflect God's heart and will to all around us.... to love as He first loved us, to forgive as He first forgave us, to serve as He first served us, to be holy and morally perfect so that we reflect His nature. And to make disciples of all 7.5 billion people by baptizing and teaching them. All this NOT so that we will be justified or loved but because we are.

Will we achieve this? No. But we press on to make it our own, because He has made us His own.

I agree that we are to 'reflect God's heart and will to all around us' and to love as He loved us. Amen.
And I know from the Word that God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1Tim 2:4) Amen. God's desire is to restore Life back to all creation. HOW He is accomplishing that through Christ is what I speak on in the teaching. It will sound different than what most have heard in their churches, especially those with an evangelical emphasis, but it is in complete accordance with Scripture and what the Spirit is saying to the churches today.

But as I responded to another brother above... what is our ultimate Goal? What is God's Eternal Goal for His Elect?
In the video I touch on what Jesus taught in John 17, and Paul's ultimate goal which he describes in Phil 3; as well as many other portions of Scripture.
Honestly, what is presented in the video, and is in absolute accordance with the canon of Scripture, especially what Jesus taught, is far beyond what the church at large has known. This is about "Tabernacles", where Jesus is leading those who will go.
For more insight on what I'm saying here, you can watch the video. And I would encourage all who do to study the multitude of Bible passages I mention and see what the Lord would say to you through them.
Peace & Blessings.

 

[NewCreation435]

Part of the problem of having a works based salvation is that you never know when you have been good enough. There is no sense of safety or security in that. I would constanly be wondering if I was good enough.

 

[Michael]

Part of the problem of having a works based salvation is that you never know when you have been good enough. There is no sense of safety or security in that. I would constanly be wondering if I was good enough.

Amen. We indeed have been saved by God's grace and the atonement of Jesus Christ alone.

But then we begin the Journey. Ahead is the Inheritance and our Eternal lot. And of that we must walk worthy and overcome. (the basis and foundation of my website is Rev 21:7)

If "being saved" were the end goal, then 95% of the New Testament would not need to have been written. And if fact, that 95% needs to be ignored if we are to embrace the modern traditions and human understanding of "salvation."


Based on the majority of the comments I've received in this thread, it seems that most folks have not even watched the video. And that's fine if they don't. But to present an argument properly, one would need to actually know what they are arguing against.

 

[Lamb]

Amen. We indeed have been saved by God's grace and the atonement of Jesus Christ alone.

But then we begin the Journey. Ahead is the Inheritance and our Eternal lot. And of that we must walk worthy and overcome. (the basis and foundation of my website is Rev 21:7)

If "being saved" were the end goal, then 95% of the New Testament would not need to have been written. And if fact, that 95% needs to be ignored if we are to embrace the modern traditions and human understanding of "salvation."


Based on the majority of the comments I've received in this thread, it seems that most folks have not even watched the video. And that's fine if they don't. But to present an argument properly, one would need to actually know what they are arguing against.

Salvation is of course what happens at our deaths and at Judgment Day. It's always been salvation by grace through faith and not by works. We have eternal life with God because of what HE has done. Not what we do.

 

[Michael]

Salvation is of course what happens at our deaths and at Judgment Day. It's always been salvation by grace through faith and not by works. We have eternal life with God because of what HE has done. Not what we do.

Man, it always come back around to "being saved" doesn't it, as if that is the goal and the whole of our faith.
I know that is what is taught in probably 95% of churches today. But is it Bible?

The letter of Hebrews alone, if it were taught on a regular basis would demolish the Statement of Faith in every denomination, including the one I'm a part of.

Teaching the Truth of even just the following passage of Scripture from Hebrews has brought me much heat over the years (and banned from some forums!), for it tells us that Jesus became something that He was not, that He had to be perfected here on the earth (meaning He wasn't prior), and that without obedience, although we've been "saved", we will not inherit "eternal salvation."

"though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." - Heb 5:8-9

I truly am curious if you've watched the video? It's one of my shorter ones (about 24 minutes). I would love to hear from someone who actually heard what I've shared, and see what portion of the Scripture they have an issue with, for my teaching in all Bible.
Again, it's obvious from the responses I've received that those replying are not aware of what I even said.

As I've said before, I'd love to sit and chat and have fellowship with many of you on this site. When I teach at church I give ample time throughout for questions & comments and other points of view. And most of our home meetings last 2-3, even up to 8 hours! It's hard to set aside the Word anymore. Most everything else only distracts and takes away precious time learning as the Spirit leads me into all Truth.

Peace & Blessings as you walk faithfully with Jesus.
:ange06:

 

[popsthebuilder]

What is the Goal of our walk with Christ?

Is it heaven? The Kingdom of God?

Or something else?

What does the Scripture define as the GOAL?

https://youtu.be/-a-7UJkPhSE

Our goal? Is it not to be found doing upon the return of our Lord?

Seems GOD desires one flock of believers and peace; though there will surely be much blood....by the hands of man.

I don't know that our goal has to do with our own security or attainment so much as the sake of the world. Of course; that's only my opinion....but there is scripture that seems to suggest such.

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

Why is the term saved, always in quotes with you? I, also don't believe you know what is taught in 95% of churches. Before you ask, no, I didn't watch your video.

 

[Michael]

Why is the term saved, always in quotes with you? I, also don't believe you know what is taught in 95% of churches. Before you ask, no, I didn't watch your video.

I know you haven't watched. Hence your opinion means nothing, for you are ignorant of the Scriptures which confirm what I teach.

:ange06:

 

[Michael]

Our goal? Is it not to be found doing upon the return of our Lord?

Seems GOD desires one flock of believers and peace; though there will surely be much blood....by the hands of man.

I don't know that our goal has to do with our own security or attainment so much as the sake of the world. Of course; that's only my opinion....but there is scripture that seems to suggest such.

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk

Just curious if you've watched the teaching? It's about "tabernacles."

Not saying you have to. But so many others on here have offered rebuttals without having any idea what I even said, or the multitude of passages of Scripture which confirm what I present.

Peace & Blessings.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Just curious if you've watched the teaching? It's about "tabernacles."

Not saying you have to. But so many others on here have offered rebuttals without having any idea what I even said, or the multitude of passages of Scripture which confirm what I present.

Peace & Blessings.

Don't know that I would offer a rebuttal according to what I read of the op and some snippets of your posts in the thread. But to answer your question; I haven't watched the video. I much prefer to read.

peace to you as well friend; may GOD continually bless you and yours.

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

I asked you a question. Can you answer it or not?

 

[Michael]

Don't know that I would offer a rebuttal according to what I read of the op and some snippets of your posts in the thread. But to answer your question; I haven't watched the video. I much prefer to read.

peace to you as well friend; may GOD continually bless you and yours.

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk

Amen. I appreciate the honesty.
I do have an essay, in which I share some of what I present in the video; that began as a Bible Study teaching I did at church, called "the Greatest Gift" in which I look at the Goal of the Elect becoming One with Christ, His "co-heirs" who will inherit the nations and minister Life and healing to them in Eternity, as the Scripture teaches.
If you're interested... it's about 14 pages, but the font is 12 pt and it is loaded with Scripture to confirm what I share - https://to-him-who-overcomes.com/greatest-gift

God's wisdom & understanding to us all.

 

[Bluezone777]

I don't really believe you can really put down specifics for goals for a Christian because each has been given their own place to be found and their own ministry which may differ from person to person. I would refrain from trying to compare yourself to others as it can lead you to believing all sorts of wrong things about yourself. To use an analogy, it would be like comparing a hammer to a screwdriver and judging the screwdriver by how well it can bang a nail in when it has been given a different job to do that while different is in no way inferior to the job that a hammer has. Each of the five forms of ministry while being different are in no way inferior to any of the others even if they are very different in how the ministry is carried out and the results it gets.

 

[Lamb]

Man, it always come back around to "being saved" doesn't it, as if that is the goal and the whole of our faith.
I know that is what is taught in probably 95% of churches today. But is it Bible?

The letter of Hebrews alone, if it were taught on a regular basis would demolish the Statement of Faith in every denomination, including the one I'm a part of.

Teaching the Truth of even just the following passage of Scripture from Hebrews has brought me much heat over the years (and banned from some forums!), for it tells us that Jesus became something that He was not, that He had to be perfected here on the earth (meaning He wasn't prior), and that without obedience, although we've been "saved", we will not inherit "eternal salvation."

"though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." - Heb 5:8-9

I truly am curious if you've watched the video? It's one of my shorter ones (about 24 minutes). I would love to hear from someone who actually heard what I've shared, and see what portion of the Scripture they have an issue with, for my teaching in all Bible.
Again, it's obvious from the responses I've received that those replying are not aware of what I even said.

As I've said before, I'd love to sit and chat and have fellowship with many of you on this site. When I teach at church I give ample time throughout for questions & comments and other points of view. And most of our home meetings last 2-3, even up to 8 hours! It's hard to set aside the Word anymore. Most everything else only distracts and takes away precious time learning as the Spirit leads me into all Truth.

Peace & Blessings as you walk faithfully with Jesus.
:ange06:

Eternal salvation is the Goal. You haven't paid attention to what the Lutherans on this site have explained to you so I will tell you again that Lutherans don't believe that we "get saved" in a one time event where we accept Jesus into our hearts or whatever other decision theology claim there is to getting saved.

Eternal salvation is all about GOD saving us and it starts in the book of Genesis and ends in Revelation. It's always Him saving us.

 

[Michael]

I don't really believe you can really put down specifics for goals for a Christian because each has been given their own place to be found and their own ministry which may differ from person to person. I would refrain from trying to compare yourself to others as it can lead you to believing all sorts of wrong things about yourself. To use an analogy, it would be like comparing a hammer to a screwdriver and judging the screwdriver by how well it can bang a nail in when it has been given a different job to do that while different is in no way inferior to the job that a hammer has. Each of the five forms of ministry while being different are in no way inferior to any of the others even if they are very different in how the ministry is carried out and the results it gets.

I agree with what you're saying here, if we're looking at our individual walk and calling in this life.
But what I'm looking at in the video (which I'm guessing you haven't watched, which is fine) is the ultimate Eternal Goal that God has called His Elect to in Jesus Christ.

The message of the teaching is not for all, or even most. God's plan is to have a remnant united to Christ, His "co-heirs" who will "sit with Him on His Throne" ruling over the saved nations of the earth in Eternity. My message is to those who feel that calling far beyond "being saved"; who desire, as Paul, to "know Christ, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from among the dead" (Phil 3:10-11); who will truly "deny themselves, pick up their cross daily and follow Jesus" (Luke 9:23), "presenting their body a living sacrifice" (Rom 12:1), that they might actually become "One with Him as He is One with the Father" (John 17:21), and be counted among "those who overcome" and receive the promises of God in Revelation 2 & 3.

Peace & Blessings as you walk with Jesus.

 

[Lamb]

I agree with what you're saying here, if we're looking at our individual walk and calling in this life.
But what I'm looking at in the video (which I'm guessing you haven't watched, which is fine) is the ultimate Eternal Goal that God has called His Elect to in Jesus Christ.

The message of the teaching is not for all, or even most. God's plan is to have a remnant united to Christ, His "co-heirs" who will "sit with Him on His Throne" ruling over the saved nations of the earth in Eternity. My message is to those who feel that calling far beyond "being saved"; who desire, as Paul, to "know Christ, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from among the dead" (Phil 3:10-11); who will truly "deny themselves, pick up their cross daily and follow Jesus" (Luke 9:23), "presenting their body a living sacrifice" (Rom 12:1), that they might actually become "One with Him as He is One with the Father" (John 17:21), and be counted among "those who overcome" and receive the promises of God in Revelation 2 & 3.

Peace & Blessings as you walk with Jesus.

The "Remnant" of believers who will have eternal life are there because of "by grace through faith" which it has been since Genesis. God is always the one who keeps a remnant and He is the one who grows His children. It is entirely because of God that you will have eternal life, you can't work your way into it because scriptures have stated thus.

 

[Michael]

Eternal salvation is the Goal. You haven't paid attention to what the Lutherans on this site have explained to you so I will tell you again that Lutherans don't believe that we "get saved" in a one time event where we accept Jesus into our hearts or whatever other decision theology claim there is to getting saved.

Eternal salvation is all about GOD saving us and it starts in the book of Genesis and ends in Revelation. It's always Him saving us.

Dear friend, I have listened, and even considered. And I've heard that understanding from many denominations over the years.

Let me ask you... we know from the Scripture that "Eternal salvation" comes to those who are obedient. (Heb 5:9). Can we agree on that?
What must we be obedient to? There is no command to just 'believe' or 'have faith' or 'accept Jesus' as I've heard some preach from pulpits. Other than a elementary isolated glance at 1John 3:23, there is no Bible for that. So what must we obey. I contend that we must obey God's commands given through Jesus & His Apostles, if we are to truly receive "eternal salvation."

Again, Jesus cannot be obedient for us. I know some believe that, but the Bible doesn't' teach that. Jesus is obedient to God and remains in His love, we must be obedient to Jesus if we are to remain in His love. (John 15:10). We are Jesus' friends if we "obey Him" (John 15:14). We are "sons & daughters" of God if we repent and obey (2Cor 6:17-18). I swear that word "if" is missed sometimes because it is so short!

I know these verses are not taught, or are glossed over in most churches, but they are just as True as such verses as John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10 and Eph 2:8-9, which themselves are True, but do not cancel out or supersede the great multitude of passages & entire chapters of Scripture which I've quoted from extensively to confirm what I teach.


the bottom line is... The Truth of God is not contained in any denomination. Every single denomination I have been involved with or participated in - Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Foursquare, Calvary, AoG, and even couple 'non-denominational' fellowships - have their "statement of faith" or rules by which they abide. None of them have all Truth. And neither do I; I only know what the Holy Spirit reveals to me. In the end, only what the Scripture declares will stand. All I present in the videos, essays and Bible Studies I share on here and teach in churches, is in accordance with the Bible. And much of what I present seems to be seldom taught in any church or denomination. Most every church, save one, that I've attended, has a couple dozen verses which they emphasize greatly: usually the ones that appear to tell the congregation that "faith alone", without a single drop of effort on their part, will grant them the promises of God. Again, if that were True, then 95% of the New Testament, which stresses the need for Repentance (an actual turning from sin, not just a mental attitude), Obedience, Denial of self. and Faithfulness... to prove (to God, not to man) that we are indeed "Worthy" (not because He is worthy, but by what we have done with what He gave us) to enter into "Tabernacles" with God.

The video, which most of the good folks on here haven't' watched, touches on these things.

I wonder how many film critics write columns about movies they never saw? Hmm... would that really be fair? Wouldn't it be better if they actually commented on something they had seen and heard? op2:

Peace & Blessings :ange06:

 

[Lamb]

Dear friend, I have listened, and even considered. And I've heard that understanding from many denominations over the years.

Let me ask you... we know from the Scripture that "Eternal salvation" comes to those who are obedient. (Heb 5:9). Can we agree on that?
What must we be obedient to? There is no command to just 'believe' or 'have faith' or 'accept Jesus' as I've heard some preach from pulpits. Other than a elementary isolated glance at 1John 3:23, there is no Bible for that. So what must we obey. I contend that we must obey God's commands given through Jesus & His Apostles, if we are to truly receive "eternal salvation."

Again, Jesus cannot be obedient for us. I know some believe that, but the Bible doesn't' teach that. Jesus is obedient to God and remains in His love, we must be obedient to Jesus if we are to remain in His love. (John 15:10). We are Jesus' friends if we "obey Him" (John 15:14). We are "sons & daughters" of God if we repent and obey (2Cor 6:17-18). I swear that word "if" is missed sometimes because it is so short!

I know these verses are not taught, or are glossed over in most churches, but they are just as True as such verses as John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10 and Eph 2:8-9, which themselves are True, but do not cancel out or supersede the great multitude of passages & entire chapters of Scripture which I've quoted from extensively to confirm what I teach.


the bottom line is... The Truth of God is not contained in any denomination. Every single denomination I have been involved with or participated in - Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Foursquare, Calvary, AoG, and even couple 'non-denominational' fellowships - have their "statement of faith" or rules by which they abide. None of them have all Truth. And neither do I; I only know what the Holy Spirit reveals to me. In the end, only what the Scripture declares will stand. All I present in the videos, essays and Bible Studies I share on here and teach in churches, is in accordance with the Bible. And much of what I present seems to be seldom taught in any church or denomination. Most every church, save one, that I've attended, has a couple dozen verses which they emphasize greatly: usually the ones that appear to tell the congregation that "faith alone", without a single drop of effort on their part, will grant them the promises of God. Again, if that were True, then 95% of the New Testament, which stresses the need for Repentance (an actual turning from sin, not just a mental attitude), Obedience, Denial of self. and Faithfulness... to prove (to God, not to man) that we are indeed "Worthy" (not because He is worthy, but by what we have done with what He gave us) to enter into "Tabernacles" with God.

The video, which most of the good folks on here haven't' watched, touches on these things.

I wonder how many film critics write columns about movies they never saw? Hmm... would that really be fair? Wouldn't it be better if they actually commented on something they had seen and heard? op2:

Peace & Blessings :ange06:

Your obedience is to be faithful to God. If you knew the original languages you'd see that.

You can't remove your sins since Christ died on the cross already for your sins. He is the only one who could die for the sin of the world...you can't even come close.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

Lambie,

Plus, any works we do, were created by God for us to do before the foundation of the world.

10*For we are His workmanship,*created in*Christ Jesus for*good works, which God*prepared beforehand so that we would*walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10, NASB)

They are a fruit of faith, not a cause of it.

16*You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and*bear fruit, and*that*your fruit would remain, so that*whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.*17*This*I command you, that you love one another. (John 15:16, NASB)

3*Remind them*to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be*ready for every good deed,*2*to malign no one,*to be peaceable,*gentle,*showing every consideration for all men.*3*For we also once were foolish ourselves,*disobedient,*deceived,*enslaved to*various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in*malice and*envy, hateful, hating one another.*4*But when the*kindness of*God our Savior and*His*love for mankind*appeared,*5*He saved us,*not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but*according to His mercy, by the*washing of regeneration and*renewing by the Holy Spirit,*6*whom He poured out upon us*richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,*7*so that being justified by His grace we would be made*heirs*[a]according to*the*hope of eternal life. (John 3:1-7, NASB)

Some people want to be glorified for doing what God prepared for them to do before the foundation of the world and after God saved them. They're easy to spot. They always point you to their teachings, and then to Scripture when questioned.