The GOAL

[popsthebuilder]

Paul speaks about the struggles of being in the sinful body and being faithful in the book of Romans.

Romans 8:4 The Holy Spirit should control the way we live.

But he wouldn't have mentioned any struggle of we didn't have to do anything.

We have the capacity to turn from the directing of the Spirit.

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[Lamb]

But he wouldn't have mentioned any struggle of we didn't have to do anything.

We have the capacity to turn from the directing of the Spirit.

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The struggle is because we remain in these sinful bodies. The comfort is from knowing we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to keep us faithful to Him.

 

[Michael]

The struggle is because we remain in these sinful bodies. The comfort is from knowing we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to keep us faithful to Him.

The Holy Spirit cannot be faithful for us.

Honestly, that doesn't even make any sense; plus it would negate almost everything Paul wrote in His letters warning the saints to remain faithful.

Let me ask... Is Jesus speaking here in Revelation to the Holy Spirit, or to those who have been saved? -

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of Life." (Rev 2:10)




.

 

[Lamb]

The Holy Spirit cannot be faithful for us.

Honestly, that doesn't even make any sense; plus it would negate almost everything Paul wrote in His letters warning the saints to remain faithful.

Let me ask... Is Jesus speaking here in Revelation to the Holy Spirit, or to those who have been saved? -

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of Life." (Rev 2:10)




.

The Holy Spirit KEEPS gives us faith and strengthens our faith. Continue with that bible study and you'll see it loud and clear in scriptures. He does it by God's Word.

 

[Michael]

The Holy Spirit KEEPS gives us faith and strengthens our faith. Continue with that bible study and you'll see it loud and clear in scriptures. He does it by God's Word.

I love being in the Word! Studying and teaching the Bible over these past couple decades has been a tremendous blessing in my life. :ange06:

As we see in Jesus' Parables, it is to those who are "faithful" that the promises of God come. And that "faithfulness" is shown by what we do. Truthfully, it always comes down to what we do: our behavior and obedience to God's charge upon our lives.

In the parable of the talents, in which the Lord gave to each of His "servants" (not to those who weren't 'believers"), we find that those who "entered into the joy of the Lord' and received an inheritance, were those servants who proved themselves faithful by what they did with what He gave them. For if it had been the Spirit keeping them faithful, why did He not help the servant who had been given "one talent"?

It is vitally important for us to understand that the Father requires those who will be united to His Son to "walk worthy", "purify themselves", "obey", "endure til the end" and be "faithful."
The good news is... if you are doing these thing, even if you believe the Spirit is doing them in you, you are pleasing in God's sight! For it's what we do, not what we simply believe, that will determine our place in Eternity.

Looking here Jesus' teaching on the "talents" and what is required of those who will be found "faithful" in that Day.

https://youtu.be/ep95zPHfG2A

 

[Lamb]

As we see in the bible the shepherd goes after the sheep who goes astray. Just like us when we falter, God comes after us. It's always God doing to save His children (we are His sheep of the pasture).

You will never find yourself worthy. Christ is worthy and died on the cross for your sins. Not just your past ones as you claim because the verse you use doesn't say ONLY your past sins. Other verses outright say He died for the sins of the world, not just SOME sins as you claim.

You keep saying you can please God. Only by grace through faith is God pleased because Jesus has redeemed us. Do you see how it's about Jesus?

 

[Michael]

As we see in the bible the shepherd goes after the sheep who goes astray. Just like us when we falter, God comes after us. It's always God doing to save His children (we are His sheep of the pasture).

You will never find yourself worthy. Christ is worthy and died on the cross for your sins. Not just your past ones as you claim because the verse you use doesn't say ONLY your past sins. Other verses outright say He died for the sins of the world, not just SOME sins as you claim.

You keep saying you can please God. Only by grace through faith is God pleased because Jesus has redeemed us. Do you see how it's about Jesus?

Oh, friend, I only keep saying these things, because the Bible stresses them!

I love Paul's prayer for the saints, "For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God." - Col 1:9-10

And I've shared many times how the Scripture tells us we must "walk worthy" of our calling, the Gospel, the Kingdom, of Christ and of God. These we must do if we are to inherit the promises of God in Rev 2 & 3.

Once the Lord has called us to follow Him, if we begin the Journey, and turn away, God does not keep coming after us. Contrary to some silly songs on the Christian radio, Jesus does not 'break down every door and climb every mountain in pursuit of us. Jesus' Parable of the lost sheep is twisted badly in much preaching today, telling the church goer that whenever they fall away, Jesus will keep coming after them. Rather Jesus plainly taught "“No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.” (Luke 9:62) Yet this message is to the Elect, not the bulk of mankind.

When the prodigal son left the father and went about doing his own thing, the father did not go after him. Yes, the father was waiting, but he did not pursue the son who fell away. Only when the son decided to return, repent and humble himself - "come to his senses" - did his father welcome him.

As an old time preacher correctly declared often - "it's not how you start that matters, but how you finish." Yet again, I believe this message is primarily to the Elect, those who will be Christ's "co-heirs."

Most often, I've found over the years, that those in the greatest defense of a belief that Jesus does it all in us once we've made any sort of profession of faith, or even raised our hand in youth group, comes from those who have loved ones who are not serving the Lord or have fallen into a sinful lifestyle or perhaps even died with great bitterness toward God. So comfort is brought to us if we believe that our loved ones will still 'go to heaven' because at one point in their lives they said a prayer or made a confession of Christ.

If you notice, I often mention Rev 2 & 3 in my teaching. The group who will attain to these promises are very few. BUT these who do, because they have proved themselves worthy, will inherit the bulk of mankind in Eternity, and minster healing and Life to them on the new earth, including many of these loved ones for whom our heart grieves now. This IS the message of the Scripture. And it is a infinitely greater message that is commonly preached today. For it is Truth.

Peace & Blessings.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Oh, friend, I only keep saying these things, because the Bible stresses them!

I love Paul's prayer for the saints, "For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God." - Col 1:9-10

And I've shared many times how the Scripture tells us we must "walk worthy" of our calling, the Gospel, the Kingdom, of Christ and of God. These we must do if we are to inherit the promises of God in Rev 2 & 3.

Once the Lord has called us to follow Him, if we begin the Journey, and turn away, God does not keep coming after us. Contrary to some silly songs on the Christian radio, Jesus does not 'break down every door and climb every mountain in pursuit of us. Jesus' Parable of the lost sheep is twisted badly in much preaching today, telling the church goer that whenever they fall away, Jesus will keep coming after them. Rather Jesus plainly taught "“No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.” (Luke 9:62) Yet this message is to the Elect, not the bulk of mankind.

When the prodigal son left the father and went about doing his own thing, the father did not go after him. Yes, the father was waiting, but he did not pursue the son who fell away. Only when the son decided to return, repent and humble himself - "come to his senses" - did his father welcome him.

As an old time preacher correctly declared often - "it's not how you start that matters, but how you finish." Yet again, I believe this message is primarily to the Elect, those who will be Christ's "co-heirs."

Most often, I've found over the years, that those in the greatest defense of a belief that Jesus does it all in us once we've made any sort of profession of faith, or even raised our hand in youth group, comes from those who have loved ones who are not serving the Lord or have fallen into a sinful lifestyle or perhaps even died with great bitterness toward God. So comfort is brought to us if we believe that our loved ones will still 'go to heaven' because at one point in their lives they said a prayer or made a confession of Christ.

If you notice, I often mention Rev 2 & 3 in my teaching. The group who will attain to these promises are very few. BUT these who do, because they have proved themselves worthy, will inherit the bulk of mankind in Eternity, and minster healing and Life to them on the new earth, including many of these loved ones for whom our heart grieves now. This IS the message of the Scripture. And it is a infinitely greater message that is commonly preached today. For it is Truth.

Peace & Blessings.

You make reference to the new earth...is it not that HIS kingdom will be gathered here, on this Earth?

You seem to have very sound teachings. Of course I'm only going off of what I have read.


peace

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[Lamb]

Oh, friend, I only keep saying these things, because the Bible stresses them!

The Bible has Law and Gospel. Mingling the two corrupts God's grace and mercy, reducing it to man's work righteousness that isn't what the bible states at all. Turn back to Jesus and the cross for your forgiveness, not to your own efforts to try to win over God.

 

[Michael]

The Bible has Law and Gospel. Mingling the two corrupts God's grace and mercy, reducing it to man's work righteousness that isn't what the bible states at all. Turn back to Jesus and the cross for your forgiveness, not to your own efforts to try to win over God.

To ease your mind friend, I KNOW, without a doubt, that I have been saved! And that ONLY because of what JESUS has done, and the Grace and Mercy of God.

I did nothing to earn or receive this "salvation" except to believe. :ange06:

And then I began my walk, journeying toward the Goal set before me by God. For truly, "being saved" in not the end, but the very first step: as one entering Kindergarten, with a Master's Degree being the end goal.

What the great bulk of the New Testament contains, and what God has given me to share, is what happens after we've been "saved." My 1Corinthians 10 Study which I just began sharing in the Bible Study section of this site, is a wonderful look at how the Apostle Paul shows how the experiences of Israel in the wilderness is a type of our "salvation" and "walk."

And I know well how you feel concerning this, as I've heard such belief before; again from many who are concerned about their loved ones who are not following Jesus. As I've stated many times, the great bulk of folks will be the inheritance of the "those who overcome" when God's Eternal Kingdom is established.

So, what you & I believe really do not contradict. You are looking at the very beginning of our Christian walk, while I am looking at the end. And according to all that Jesus taught, and every book of the New Testament confirms... to receive the promises of that end - again from Rev 2 & 3 - we must "overcome", "walk worthy", "endure til the end" and "prove that we are His disciples", by what we do. If that wasn't the clear message of the Bible I wouldn't dare to speak such a word. But as it is, and God has commissioned me, I teach and speak "as the oracle of God."

God's peace & blessings, wisdom & understanding to us all.

 

[Lamb]

To ease your mind friend, I KNOW, without a doubt, that I have been saved! And that ONLY because of what JESUS has done, and the Grace and Mercy of God.

I did nothing to earn or receive this "salvation" except to believe. :ange06:

And then I began my walk, journeying toward the Goal set before me by God. For truly, "being saved" in not the end, but the very first step: as one entering Kindergarten, with a Master's Degree being the end goal.

What the great bulk of the New Testament contains, and what God has given me to share, is what happens after we've been "saved." My 1Corinthians 10 Study which I just began sharing in the Bible Study section of this site, is a wonderful look at how the Apostle Paul shows how the experiences of Israel in the wilderness is a type of our "salvation" and "walk."

And I know well how you feel concerning this, as I've heard such belief before; again from many who are concerned about their loved ones who are not following Jesus. As I've stated many times, the great bulk of folks will be the inheritance of the "those who overcome" when God's Eternal Kingdom is established.

So, what you & I believe really do not contradict. You are looking at the very beginning of our Christian walk, while I am looking at the end. And according to all that Jesus taught, and every book of the New Testament confirms... to receive the promises of that end - again from Rev 2 & 3 - we must "overcome", "walk worthy", "endure til the end" and "prove that we are His disciples", by what we do. If that wasn't the clear message of the Bible I wouldn't dare to speak such a word. But as it is, and God has commissioned me, I teach and speak "as the oracle of God."

God's peace & blessings, wisdom & understanding to us all.

I could have sworn I attempted to explain to you how Lutherans don't talk about "getting saved" so I suppose you aren't really listening?

It seems you think you can redeem yourself before the Lord. You will fail. The Goal is about eternal life and you will never be able to win that all because eternal life comes from believing in the Savior who died for your sins.

If you think you can obey God without your sins forgiven then you are mistaken. Your sin gets in the way of being perfectly obedient. Yet you keep trying to persuade the world to do something they cannot and to deny the Savior of what He has already accomplished. That's a sin.

 

[Michael]

I could have sworn I attempted to explain to you how Lutherans don't talk about "getting saved" so I suppose you aren't really listening?

It seems you think you can redeem yourself before the Lord. You will fail. The Goal is about eternal life and you will never be able to win that all because eternal life comes from believing in the Savior who died for your sins.

If you think you can obey God without your sins forgiven then you are mistaken. Your sin gets in the way of being perfectly obedient. Yet you keep trying to persuade the world to do something they cannot and to deny the Savior of what He has already accomplished. That's a sin.

That may be with the Lutheran denomination believes. But what does the BIBLE say?
The particular denomination of which I am a part, and even teach in, has many declarations in their "Statement of Faith" which are contrary to the Scripture. I do not hold to these.
A plethora of man-made traditions have entered into the various denominations over the centuries.
I am not interested so much in what any particular denomination or group believes or teaches; only in what the Scriptures says.
And again, what I am presenting seems to be far beyond what most of the denominations understand, but definitely what the Bible teaches.
All that I share and present is by the guidance of God's Holy Spirit. I introduce nothing new, only what has been written for thousands of years.
God is lifting the veil in our time. Are we willing to set aside our traditions, our wishful thinking and mans understanding, and lay hold of the Truth of God's Word?

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Amen.

 

[Michael]

You make reference to the new earth...is it not that HIS kingdom will be gathered here, on this Earth?

You seem to have very sound teachings. Of course I'm only going off of what I have read.


peace

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Thank you brother, I appreciate the encouragement and fellowship.

Regarding your question...

“Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. “ - Rev 21:1

Indeed, the Scripture tells of a “new earth” which God shall create, and upon which New Jerusalem shall be established, having come from Heaven to the earth. (Rev 21:10)

“Then I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.” – Rev 21:2-3

This “new earth” shall be very similar to the old, but without the curse and without the tempter. The Scripture speaks in many places concerning what the new earth shall be like. I mention several of them at the beginning of an essay I wrote on my Eternal Hope - https://pressingintomaturity.blogspot.com/2019/03/a-disciples-hope.html

And we see in the visions that God gave Isaiah -

“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.”
- Isaiah 65:17-19

This “Jerusalem” being that “New Jerusalem” that we read about in Revelation. Indeed, there is a period of time when Jesus returns to the physical Jerusalem on this earth and reigns with the Elect over the nations of the earth. That is a time of cleansing and preparation. This occurs after the "Great Distress", which precedes the Resurrection of the Elect (not all church-goers. But that is another topic of study)

This "new earth" and "New Jerusalem" is after the 1000 year Kingdom reign, the great end-time battle, and the Judgment of the nations. As Peter writes, “by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.” – 2Pet 3:7

Indeed, at that time, “the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.” - 2Pet 3:10b-13

Interestingly, we see that our behavior is a vital part of this. Contrary to much modern preaching, our "works" and "deeds" and "conduct" effect even when the Lord Jesus will return. (again, another area of study!)

So now here we see in these passages the Eternal Kingdom, in which God is dwelling with men on the earth. There is a lot more to this which time & space do not permit; but this is “the city which is to come” (Heb 13:14) that the writer of Hebrews exhorted us to walk worthy of, and which Abraham looked forward to (Heb 11:10,).

Oh Glory! This is a True picture of eternity, and a portion of that great GOAL which God has desired for His Elect and all Creation.
May we attain to what God has called us for, and settle for nothing less.

“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.”
- Isaiah 66:22-23

Amen.

Peace & Blessings to you as you walk with Jesus.

 

[Lamb]

That may be with the Lutheran denomination believes. But what does the BIBLE say?
The particular denomination of which I am a part, and even teach in, has many declarations in their "Statement of Faith" which are contrary to the Scripture. I do not hold to these.
A plethora of man-made traditions have entered into the various denominations over the centuries.
I am not interested so much in what any particular denomination or group believes or teaches; only in what the Scriptures says.
And again, what I am presenting seems to be far beyond what most of the denominations understand, but definitely what the Bible teaches.
All that I share and present is by the guidance of God's Holy Spirit. I introduce nothing new, only what has been written for thousands of years.
God is lifting the veil in our time. Are we willing to set aside our traditions, our wishful thinking and mans understanding, and lay hold of the Truth of God's Word?

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Amen.

You teach against Jesus' blood for having eternal life and teach instead me theology. You are law driven instead of Christ driven and the bible is all about Christ bringing us to eternity with God...that's the good news, not the burden that the Law you spout brings to us. The Law is holy and good and God wants us to be Holy and Good and yet we are only Holy and Good because of Jesus who died for us on the cross...HE has reconciled us to God. HE is our redeemer. We are not our own redeemers.

 

[Michael]

You teach against Jesus' blood for having eternal life and teach instead me theology. You are law driven instead of Christ driven and the bible is all about Christ bringing us to eternity with God...that's the good news, not the burden that the Law you spout brings to us. The Law is holy and good and God wants us to be Holy and Good and yet we are only Holy and Good because of Jesus who died for us on the cross...HE has reconciled us to God. HE is our redeemer. We are not our own redeemers.

I teach the Law of Moses? Not sure how anyone could possibly derive that from anything which I've presented in this forum or on my website. :dunno:

That shows me that you actually haven't watched any of the videos :eatpopcorn:, or read the in-depth Bible Studies I've shared :read:. You don't have to, I know. :no: But I have found it interesting that so many people are so quick to refute me while they remain in total ignorance of what I say; and even when my written posts are loaded with Scripture, many still refuse to receive God's Eternal Word. If the hundreds of passages I've quoted directly from the Scripture are suspect, then we cannot trust that John 3:16 is True either.

In many churches today, that Eternal Word of God has been replaced with man-made theology and phrases such as "covered with the Blood", "under the Blood", "plead the Blood", "God sees me through Christ", "we are worthy because He is worthy", "Jesus did it all", "go to heaven", and many others along that line that are not not in the canon of Scripture. They have been preached for so long that many think they are in the Bible, but they are not. They are simply not Bible, and therefore not True. And in many cases the Scripture teaches the exact opposite of what the preacher-man says. I always remember that the Apostles never went to Bible college. Man, it would have ruined them! I have gleaned much from real men of God over the years, but my Teacher has been the Holy Spirit, whom the Father sent to "guide us into all Truth."
:bible: And He has been showing me wonderful things! Thank You Lord!

"To You, O Lord, I lift up my soul.
2 O my God, I trust in You;
Let me not be ashamed;
Let not my enemies triumph over me.
3 Indeed, let no one who waits on You be ashamed;
Let those be ashamed who deal treacherously without cause.

4 Show me Your ways, O Lord;
Teach me Your paths.
5 Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
For You are the God of my salvation;
On You I wait all the day.

6 Remember, O Lord, Your tender mercies and Your lovingkindnesses,
For they are from of old.
7 Do not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions;
According to Your mercy remember me,
For Your goodness’ sake, O Lord.

8 Good and upright is the Lord;
Therefore He teaches sinners in the way.
9 The humble He guides in justice,
And the humble He teaches His way.
10 All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth,
To such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.
11 For Your name’s sake, O Lord,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great."
- Psalm 25:1-11

Amen.

God's Wisdom and Understanding to us all.

Peace! :ange06:

 

[Lamb]

If you say something in your video that is different on the forum, then maybe you should just write it in the forum.

So far on this site you refuse to believe that all your sins are forgiven by Jesus' blood and death on the cross and that YOU have to work your way to have eternal life. Is that an accurate synopsis of your beliefs?

 

[Michael]

Unless God opens our minds...

If you say something in your video that is different on the forum, then maybe you should just write it in the forum.

So far on this site you refuse to believe that all your sins are forgiven by Jesus' blood and death on the cross and that YOU have to work your way to have eternal life. Is that an accurate synopsis of your beliefs?

I've written out quite a bit in my 17 part Romans 8 Study here in the Bible Study section of this site. You can find much of what I believe there. On my website as well, I have several essays and teaching, in writing, which describe what the Spirit has revealed.

A couple of the passages I often mention when discussing any denominations "Statement of Faith" are Hebrews 5:5-11, John 20:17, and Acts 2:36, for they stand in opposition to much of the religious traditions we have constructed over the centuries, especially the understanding of who Jesus is, was, became, and will be in Eternity.

If one can prove that these following passages don't mean what they say, then I will stand to be corrected.

"So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.”
6 As He also says in another place:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”;
7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing." - Heb 5:5-11

"Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ” - John 20:17 (Eph 1:17, Rom 15:6, 1Cor 15:20-28 and Rev 3:12, among literally hundreds of other verses, confirm Jesus' declaration concerning His relationship to God.)

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” - Acts 2:36

Amen

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of Truth." - 2Tim 2:15

God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.

 

[Lamb]

Do you know what it means to be "the Christ"? It's in one of the verses you quoted above.

 

[Michael]

Do you know what it means to be "the Christ"? It's in one of the verses you quoted above.

Yes I do. I speak of it in much of my teaching, including my Psalm 132 video which got me expelled from a couple other "Christian" forums.
It's posted here in your "Speculative Theology" section; even though it IS sound Biblical teaching.

 

[Michael]

Blessed this morning by brother Zac here, as his teaching further confirms what the Lord gave me.

May this Word be an encouragement to you as well.

Peace & Blessings.

https://youtu.be/2SgXetu4MbI