Communion of the Saints

[Josiah]

I was at a confirmation today, just wondering because growing up Catholic I was never properly explained to why we should pray to Saints so they in return pray for us. Why not just pray directly to God?

Serious question btw, I just never got an explanation and have never recognized any particular scripture that addresses it.

As has been shown, there is nothing in Scripture that remotely indicates we are to send prayer request to those in heaven.... or that those in heaven hear our requests.... or that those in heaven answer/supply our requests. Nothing. My thanks to Arsenios and MoreCoffee for so powerfully proving this.


As a Catholic, here's how it was explained to us: While all CAN (and should) pray to GOD, realize that the "answer" may well be no. BUT.... read in the Bible about Jesus' first miracle, the changing of water into wine at the wedding at Cana! Ah, Jesus had no intention or desire to intervene in this need at all, He expressly said that "my time has not yet come." BUT, Mary indicated her desire (she didn't even have to explicity express it!!!!). And Jesus obediently did so (as Mary knew He would - and told the host so). WHY? Because Jesus was sinless! Jesus kept the 4th Commandment (Honor your Mom), He really had no choice here. Get it? So..... yeah..... you can go directly to Jesus but all you have is you and Jesus may well dismiss your request. AH, but get MARY to intervene! And you've got the Fourth Commandment going for you, Jesus obeys Mary!!!! Make sense? Another thing: Mary - being a woman and a mom - "gets it." She tends to be sympathetic and understanding. At the Wedding of Cana, SHE saw the need and cared (it seems Jesus did not). So you likely will find that MARY will care about your request, understand your situation, more readily.


Now, IMO, there's nothing wrong with asking those in heaven to pass on a prayer request; to pray FOR you. But we have NOTHING that remotely suggests any in heaven knows about our request to them.... and NOTHING to suggest their prayers are answered when ours would not be.... and of course, ALL those in heaven can do is - at most - pray for us, they can't counsel us, comfort us, direct us, minister to us, or ANY of the things a loved one HERE can do. I don't suppose it could HURT but you may be largely wasting your time (although God hears those prayers, too.... perhaps wondering why we are bypassing Him.



- Josiah



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[RichWh1]

God tells me not to worry about the opinions of folk who do not invoke the saints and angels in their prayers.

Personal revelation? Careful who you listen to!


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[MennoSota]

God tells me not to worry about the opinions of folk who do not invoke the saints and angels in their prayers.

LOL, that's just indigestion, not God.

 

[MennoSota]

God is Glorified in His Saints...

To live - Christ!
To die - Gain!

God wants us to work His works one toward the other...
That work does not stop at one's final breath...
The life we receive is eternal...
We walk in the presence of a "Great cloud of witnesses..."

The Church Triumphant is not a dead church...
Not even in Old Testament times...
Moses and Elijah met with the Disciples and Christ...
Abel's blood cried from the ground...

Turning your backs on the dead...
Is not a Christian teaching...


Arsenios

You have taken unsupportable leaps in thought here. You are interpreting the Bible like Muslims interpret the Bible. No context, no concept of connection, purposeful mischaracterization of the text for selfish and premeditated reasons. Arsenios, no one should take you seriously on this matter.

 

[psalms 91]

Neither is praying to dead people rather than God

 

[RichWh1]

Yes...

Death is the middle wall...

Christians have been praying to God in His departed Saints for 2000 years...

God prefers to work through His Holy Ones...


Arsenios

Paul's death was his gain, not ours.
Gain doesn't equate to being more efficient in praying Paul's death (gain) was our loss.


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[MoreCoffee]

Personal revelation? Careful who you listen to!


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LOL, that's just indigestion, not God.

God says not to listen to people who reject the invocation of the holy angels and saints.

 

[RichWh1]

God says not to listen to people who reject the invocation of the holy angels and saints.

God says that? Where?



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[MoreCoffee]

God says that? Where?



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In the minds and hearts of the faithful and in the holy scriptures and in the teaching of Christ but only those who are faithful learn these things while the mockers and doubters refuse the invocation of the holy angels and saints of God because they prefer the traditions of men and they prefer the fables told to them by their worldly teachers.

 

[MennoSota]

God says not to listen to people who reject the invocation of the holy angels and saints.

No God doesn't. You lookin at the apopealacrafa again?

 

[RichWh1]

MC
You couldn't be more wrong. If God said it, I would be the first to acknowledge that.
I checked the Bible both Old and New Testament and could not find where God talks about His angels and saints.

I will trust the Word of God over the words of man any day.



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[MoreCoffee]

No God doesn't. You lookin at the apopealacrafa again?

MC
You couldn't be more wrong. If God said it, I would be the first to acknowledge that.
I checked the Bible both Old and New Testament and could not find where God talks about His angels and saints.

I will trust the Word of God over the words of man any day.



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God tells me that bad associations corrupt good habits so it is better not to associate with people who mock what is holy and good.

 

[RichWh1]

God tells me that bad associations corrupt good habits so it is better not to associate with people who mock what is holy and good.

Are other Christians bad associations? Please don't say yes.
Nobody is mocking what is holy.


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[MoreCoffee]

Are other Christians bad associations? Please don't say yes.
Nobody is mocking what is holy.


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Brothers and sisters falsely so called are bad associations and are best avoided because what they say and do leads to bad practises and away from what is holy and good.

 

[RichWh1]

Brothers and sisters falsely so called are bad associations and are best avoided because what they say and do leads to bad practises and away from what is holy and good.

Nobody here fits that description.




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[MoreCoffee]

Nobody here fits that description.




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A person's heart is revealed by what they say and do.

 

[RichWh1]

A person's heart is revealed by what they say and do.

Well your words reveal your heart.


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[MennoSota]

God tells me that bad associations corrupt good habits so it is better not to associate with people who mock what is holy and good.

Bad company corrupts good morals. Run from Rome my man!!!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well your words reveal your heart.


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I hope so.

Bad company corrupts good morals. Run from Rome my man!!!

The holy scriptures warn that fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

[MennoSota]

I hope so.



The holy scriptures warn that fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Okay...then why do you despise wisdom and instruction? You receive wise counsel here and you despise it. Run from Rome, MC.