Sinless Mary

[MennoSota]

So do you refuse to call her Blessed?

Gosh, Menno - I thought you were a Bible Believing Christian...

Do you not believe the Bible?


Arsenios

LOL, your conflation is funny.

 

[Arsenios]

LOL, your conflation is funny.

So you are NOT one of the generations of Christians?

OR...

Do you call her Blessed?


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

So you are NOT one of the generations of Christians?

OR...

Do you call her Blessed?


Arsenios

LOL, you conflate being a Christian with whether or not a person gives Jesus mother the title of "Blessed Mary?"
What other stupid rules does your church teach you?
Mary received a blessing from God. This is biblical and I believe it.
I do not have any obligation, command or requirement from God saying I must address Mary by the title "Blessed Mary." That is your silly denominational tradition requiring such nonsense.
Second, to state that one who doesn't call Jesus mother "Blessed Mary" means they are not a Christian is one of the dumbest statements I have heard. What bizarre thinking you display.

 

[Lamb]

There are, haven't you bothered to do a search?

I preferred to ask the members here what they know about it. I guess there isn't much to know then.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I preferred to ask the members here what they know about it. I guess there isn't much to know then.

Do a search and find out for yourself. The early church fathers were prolific writers. It would be an adventure for you. For me it is "old news" so to speak.

 

[Lamb]

Do a search and find out for yourself. The early church fathers were prolific writers. It would be an adventure for you. For me it is "old news" so to speak.

I started this thread to get information because this is a message board. Telling me to do my own search means that you have no other information to provide. Thank you.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I started this thread to get information because this is a message board. Telling me to do my own search means that you have no other information to provide. Thank you.

Your conclusion is incorrect. All it means is that I think you ought to find the information for yourself because it is so easy to find. That you appear to be unwilling speaks to your lack of genuine interest in seeing the quotes from the early church fathers. The quote I already supplied ought to be sufficient to attract your interest if you genuinely have any. A search on the phrase "Church fathers on Blessed Mary's sinlessness" will likely yield many web pages, some hostile some friendly to the doctrine.

Below is the search result page I received for that phrase:

• The Patristic Praise of Mary - John A. Hammes - EWTN
  www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FR90203.HTM
  
  As we have seen, the early Church Fathers called Mary the new Eve, in that as Eve was our mother by physical generation, so Mary is our mother by spiritual regeneration, in virtue of her Divine Son's redemption of humanity. In the second century, St. Irenaeus commented that "the Word will become flesh, and the Son of God the son of man—the Pure One opening purely that pure womb, which ...
• Church “fathers” on Mary - PeaceByJesus
  www.peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ancients_on_Mary.html
  
  Church “fathers” on Mary. The following compilations and commentary below are from the work of Jason Engwer (who is not me, though I supplement his work at the bottom of this page), and is offered here for non-commercial “fair use.”
• Not all the Church Fathers said Mary was sinless ...
  www.christianforums.com › Forums › Theology (Christians only)
  
  25/06/2015 · The evidence for Mary's sinlessness is that she does not appear in the Gospels dressed in red and wearing a golden crown. She does not demand special treatment, or special titles. When she visits her son she waits outside until he asks to see her.
• Was Saint Mary, Mother of God, sinless? – Orthodox ...
  https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2015/06/23/was-saint-mary...
  
  Mary’s sinlessness (or sinfulness) is not a matter of salvation for the Protestant, as we believe we are saved by Christ alone as the Church has always taught. Hence, I can like Chrysostom speculate that Mary has done things worthy of rebuke without meaning any disrespect towards her.
• Marys sinlessness - Let Us Reason
  www.letusreason.org/RC1.htm
  
  In Lk.1:42 Elizabeth's words were “you are most blessed of all women” Does not mean Mary was the holiest of all women, but blessed because she carried the savior. Luke 1:30 Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor (grace) with God.
• Mary Without Sin (Scripture and Tradition) - Called to ...
  www.calledtocommunion.com/.../mary-without-sin-scripture-and-tradition
  
  Below are three common arguments used by the early Church Fathers, the Popes, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church to justify Mary’s title as the Panagia or “All-Holy.” The first is straight-forward, the latter two rely on typology.
• The Immaculate Conception, the Bible and the Church Fathers
  www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/a115.htm
  
  The more compelling argument comes from the Fathers and early ecclesiastical writers who universally affirmed Mary's holiness and sinlessness (with few exceptions). The evidence for the doctrine of the IC (or Mary's personal sinlessness) in the Fathers and Doctors is not just good, but great. Mariologist Juniper Carol sums it up:
• Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
  
  The Immaculate Conception is the conception of the Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus. The Catholic Church teaches that God acted upon Mary in the first moment of her conception keeping her "immaculate".
  
  Feast: December 8 (Roman Rite), December 9 (Byzantine Rite)
  
  Definition · History · Patronages · Feast day · Other churches
  
• Mary's sinlessness | Page 5 | Christian Forums
  www.christianforums.com › … › The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox
  
  5/10/2017 · The Church, also inspired by the Holy Spirit to proclaim, that Mary is the New Eve born with the Grace never to commit sin because She is the Immaculate Conception, and by God this was done, for She would carry His Son, As the Angel Gabriel stated: "Hail Full of Grace..", Mary's New Name.
• Mary - catholicfidelity.com
  https://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/mary
  
  The Church Fathers and Mary as Theotokos by Joe Gallegos. Perpetual Virginity . Defense of the Perpetual Virginity of Our Lady by Phil Porvaznik. Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginty of Mary by Dave Armstrong. In Defense of the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Mother By John of Ecclesia Militans. Jesus' Brothers and Mary's Perpetual Virginity by Mark J. Bonocore. Mary's Other Children ...

Typing the search took me less than 15 seconds. Reproducing the search page for you in this post took several minutes. You could easily have done the search for yourself. If you are interested you can look at the pages in the results page.

 

[Josiah]

Your conclusion is incorrect. All it means is that I think you ought to find the information for yourself because it is so easy to find. That you appear to be unwilling speaks to your lack of genuine interest in seeing the quotes from the early church fathers. The quote I already supplied ought to be sufficient to attract your interest if you genuinely have any. A search on the phrase "Church fathers on Blessed Mary's sinlessness" will likely yield many web pages, some hostile some friendly to the doctrine.

Below is the search result page I received for that phrase:

• The Patristic Praise of Mary - John A. Hammes - EWTN
  www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FR90203.HTM
  
  As we have seen, the early Church Fathers called Mary the new Eve, in that as Eve was our mother by physical generation, so Mary is our mother by spiritual regeneration, in virtue of her Divine Son's redemption of humanity. In the second century, St. Irenaeus commented that "the Word will become flesh, and the Son of God the son of man—the Pure One opening purely that pure womb, which ...
• Church “fathers” on Mary - PeaceByJesus
  www.peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ancients_on_Mary.html
  
  Church “fathers” on Mary. The following compilations and commentary below are from the work of Jason Engwer (who is not me, though I supplement his work at the bottom of this page), and is offered here for non-commercial “fair use.”
• Not all the Church Fathers said Mary was sinless ...
  www.christianforums.com › Forums › Theology (Christians only)
  
  25/06/2015 · The evidence for Mary's sinlessness is that she does not appear in the Gospels dressed in red and wearing a golden crown. She does not demand special treatment, or special titles. When she visits her son she waits outside until he asks to see her.
• Was Saint Mary, Mother of God, sinless? – Orthodox ...
  https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2015/06/23/was-saint-mary...
  
  Mary’s sinlessness (or sinfulness) is not a matter of salvation for the Protestant, as we believe we are saved by Christ alone as the Church has always taught. Hence, I can like Chrysostom speculate that Mary has done things worthy of rebuke without meaning any disrespect towards her.
• Marys sinlessness - Let Us Reason
  www.letusreason.org/RC1.htm
  
  In Lk.1:42 Elizabeth's words were “you are most blessed of all women” Does not mean Mary was the holiest of all women, but blessed because she carried the savior. Luke 1:30 Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor (grace) with God.
• Mary Without Sin (Scripture and Tradition) - Called to ...
  www.calledtocommunion.com/.../mary-without-sin-scripture-and-tradition
  
  Below are three common arguments used by the early Church Fathers, the Popes, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church to justify Mary’s title as the Panagia or “All-Holy.” The first is straight-forward, the latter two rely on typology.
• The Immaculate Conception, the Bible and the Church Fathers
  www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/a115.htm
  
  The more compelling argument comes from the Fathers and early ecclesiastical writers who universally affirmed Mary's holiness and sinlessness (with few exceptions). The evidence for the doctrine of the IC (or Mary's personal sinlessness) in the Fathers and Doctors is not just good, but great. Mariologist Juniper Carol sums it up:
• Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
  
  The Immaculate Conception is the conception of the Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus. The Catholic Church teaches that God acted upon Mary in the first moment of her conception keeping her "immaculate".
  
  Feast: December 8 (Roman Rite), December 9 (Byzantine Rite)
  
  Definition · History · Patronages · Feast day · Other churches
  
• Mary's sinlessness | Page 5 | Christian Forums
  www.christianforums.com › … › The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox
  
  5/10/2017 · The Church, also inspired by the Holy Spirit to proclaim, that Mary is the New Eve born with the Grace never to commit sin because She is the Immaculate Conception, and by God this was done, for She would carry His Son, As the Angel Gabriel stated: "Hail Full of Grace..", Mary's New Name.
• Mary - catholicfidelity.com
  https://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/mary
  
  The Church Fathers and Mary as Theotokos by Joe Gallegos. Perpetual Virginity . Defense of the Perpetual Virginity of Our Lady by Phil Porvaznik. Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginty of Mary by Dave Armstrong. In Defense of the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Mother By John of Ecclesia Militans. Jesus' Brothers and Mary's Perpetual Virginity by Mark J. Bonocore. Mary's Other Children ...

Typing the search took me less than 15 seconds. Reproducing the search page for you in this post took several minutes. You could easily have done the search for yourself. If you are interested you can look at the pages in the results page.

Correct. There is nothing in Scripture that indicates that Mary was sinless. Nothing that remotely teaches the unique, new dogma of "The Immaculate Conception."

Correct. This is a new, unique dogma of the singular, individual RC denomination that has no support from Apostolic Tradition. It wasn't even a person opinion of any until the 5th Century and not taught by even the singular RCC until the 12th Century and has never been taught by any other denomination.

Correct. It eventually was taught by one denomination (dogmatically since 1870). And good/real/true Catholics docilicly swallow it whole because that's what the RC denomination instructs them to do; accept it BECAUSE the RCC alone now teaches it. And real Catholics thus do. That's it.




.

 

[Lamb]

Your conclusion is incorrect. All it means is that I think you ought to find the information for yourself because it is so easy to find. That you appear to be unwilling speaks to your lack of genuine interest in seeing the quotes from the early church fathers.

Actually, I'm unwilling to search because 1) I asked here and 2) I have absolutely no time to invest in it because of Christmas preparations. It's why I'm not participating much on the site at this time.

 

[Arsenios]

Mary received a blessing from God.
This is biblical and I believe it.

Congratulations,

You have made a beginning...

Now for the sincerity quiz:

And the Bible also says that ALL generations SHALL CALL Her Blessed...

So DO you CALL Her Blessed?

Yes and No are good answers:

O - Yes

O - No

You can then make your mark with an X and two witnesses...

I mean, c'mon, Menno -

What is so hard about calling her blessed when the Bible tells you that ALL generations SHALL call her blessed?

Do you DENY that the Bible foretells that ALL shall call her blessed?

I mean, stand up like a big dog, and stop Weiner-dogging around like a little miscreant truant!

Is calling her blessed Biblical or non-Biblical or Anti-Biblical?

0 - Biblical

0 - Un-Biblical

0 - Anti-Biblical

Man up and do what the Bible tells you to do!

Call Jesus Mom Blessed!


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Congratulations, you have made a beginning...

And the Bible also says that ALL generations SHALL CALL Her Blessed...

So DO you CALL Her Blessed?

Yes and No are good answers:

O - Yes

O - No

You can then make your mark with an X and two witnesses...

I mean, c'mon, Menno -

What is so hard about calling her blessed when the Bible tells you that ALL generations SHALL call her blessed?

Do you DENY that the Bible foretells that ALL shall call her blessed?

I mean, stand up like a big dog, and stop Weiner-dogging around like a little miscreant truant!

Is calling her blessed Biblical or non-Biblical or Anti-Biblical?

0 - Biblical

0 - Un-Biblical

0 - Anti-Biblical

Man up and do what the Bible tells you to do!

Call Jesus Mom Blessed!


Arsenios

Arsenios, your questioning is comical. Let me join in.
Why do you and MC worship Mary as a god?

 

[Arsenios]

I guess there isn't much to know then.

This came up on a quick search: An answer to almost your exact question:
https://christianity.stackexchange....-first-taught-the-perpetual-virginity-of-mary
I am not all that sure the answer is from an Orthodox Christian, but likely it is...
____________________________________________________
As with many doctrines in the first few hundred years of the church,
they tended not to be explicitly defined
until heretics arose
forcing the church to define doctrine.

This is why history is scarce on people speaking of this doctrine
until the Antidicomarites show up in the mid to late 300s.

With that said, here's the records we have:

~100 AD: Ignatius of Antioch
~150 AD: Polycarp (disciple of John the Apostle)
~160 AD: Justin Martyr
~200 AD: Irenaeus

In the year AD 383, Jerome writes that Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and Irenaeus
all “held these same views” of Mary’s perpetual virginity and “wrote volumes replete with wisdom”
(in his The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary: Against Helvidius, section 19).
No writings from these 4 men survived that unambiguously identifies their belief in this doctrine,
but we assume Jerome had access to some of their many works that did not survive until the modern day.

248 AD: Origen
"Mary, as those declare who with sound mind extol her, had no other son but Jesus" [Origen's Commentary on the Gospel of John (Book I), Section 6]
Then as the Antidicomarites show up, we see an explosion in references to the doctrine (after the council of Nicea in 325 AD, as your source noted):

354 AD: Hilary of Poitiers
"If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary's sons and not those taken from Joseph's former marriage,
she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother,
the Lord saying to each, 'Woman, behold your son,' and to John, 'Behold your mother' [John 19:26-27],
as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate"
[Hilary's Commentary on Matthew 1:4]

360 AD: Athanasius
Identifies Mary as "Mary Ever-Virgin" in his Discourse 2 Against the Arians, Section 70

373 AD: Ephrem
"Because there are those who dare to say that Mary cohabited with Joseph after she bore the Redeemer, we reply,
'How would it have been possible for her who was the home of the indwelling of the Spirit,
whom the divine power overshadowed,
that she be joined by a mortal being,
and gave birth filled with birthpangs,
in the image of the primeval curse?'"
[Ephrem's Commentary on Tatian's Diatessaron]

~375 AD: Basil of Caesarea
"...the lovers of Christ do not allow themselves to hear that the Mother of God
ceased at a given moment to be a virgin..."
[Basil’s Homily: On the holy generation of Christ 5; PG 31, 1468 B]

375 AD: Epiphanius
"For I have heard from someone that certain persons are venturing to say
that [Mary] had marital relations after the Savior’s birth.
And I am not surprised.
The ignorance of persons who do not know the sacred scriptures well
and have not consulted histories,
always turn them to one thing after another,
and distracts anyone who wants to track down something about the truth out of his own head.”
[The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis: De fide. Books II and III, page 620, 7.1]

383 AD: Jerome
In his The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary: Against Helvidius
he gives a long, full biblical defense of Mary's perpetual virginity,
noted in earlier sections in this answer.

386 AD: Didymus the Blind
"Mary... remained always and forever an immaculate virgin"
[Didymus's The Trinity 3:4]

388 AD: Ambrose of Milan
Identified prophecy of Ezekiel 44:2
as proof of Mary's perpetual virginity
in his De Institutione Virginum 8.52

401 AD: Augustine
"A Virgin conceiving,
a Virgin bearing,
a Virgin pregnant,
a Virgin bringing forth,
a Virgin perpetual.
Why do you wonder at this, O man?"
[Augustine, Sermons 186:1]

 

[Arsenios]

Arsenios, your questioning is comical. Let me join in.
Why do you and MC worship Mary as a god?

We do not...

Why do you falsely claim to believe the Bible?


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

We do not...

Why do you falsely claim to believe the Bible?


Arsenios

Arsenios, I have stated that God's choice to come to earth as a human via Mary's womb was a blessing to her. For some odd reason (likely your denominational tradition) you image she has been given a supreme title called "Blessed Mary." You are welcome to call her that. I won't complain.
Just don't imagine she was sinless. The latter is a silly claim that goes against scripture regarding all humanity.

 

[Josiah]

"All generations shall call you Blessed."


I don't think it's wrong to do that. But that does NOT mean that ERGO it is a dogmatic fact what Mary uniquely was conceived without original sin. The Bible says no such thing. Apostolic Tradition say no such thing. A few individuals began to express that opinion in the 5th Century. One denomination (the RCC) began to officially teach it in the 12th century. One denomination has made it doctrine, not until 1870 (the RCC). But while Mary can and should be called Blessed, that does not affirm that she was conceived without original sin (much less as dogma).

 

[MoreCoffee]

"All generations shall call you Blessed."


I don't think it's wrong to do that.

It pleases me to see you acknowledge the rightness of calling the mother of our Lord, Jesus Christ, Blessed Mary - albeit by way of a double negative statement about it not being wrong to obey what holy scripture teaches Christians to do.

But that does NOT mean that ERGO it is a dogmatic fact what Mary uniquely was conceived without original sin.

Blessed Mary was not conceived without original sin. That is an error in thinking on your part. Blessed Mary was conceived without stain of original sin. The former is an absurdity the latter is what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary says. "We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which asserts that the Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God, and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from every stain of original sin is a doctrine revealed by God and, for this reason, must be firmly and constantly believed by all the faithful"

The Bible says no such thing.

This thread is about what the early church fathers had to say about Blessed Mary's sinlessness. The bible implies this doctrine just as the bible implies the dogma of the Blessed and Most Holy Trinity without stating it. But this thread is not about what the bible says on the matter it is about what the Church Fathers say.

Mary's Sinlessness
Early Christian belief always associated Mary with Jesus in the divine plan. The Patristic writers referred to Mary as the "new Eve," who cooperated with Christ, the "new Adam." In the writings of Justin the Martyr (165 A.D.), Irenaeus (202 A.D.), Ephraem of Syria (403 A.D.), Cyril of Jerusalem (348 A.D.), Jerome (420 A.D.), Augustine (430 A.D.), Epiphanius of Salamis (403 A.D.), and John Chrysostom (407 A.D.), Mary is portrayed as bringing life (Christ) into the world, whereas Eve brought death, and Mary's humility and obedience is contrasted with Eve's pride and disobedience.

Mary's sinlessness in general was undisputed by early Christian writers. St. Ambrose (430 A.D.) wrote, ". . . Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain." Concerning Our Blessed Lady, St. Augustine declared, "I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sin." St. Ephraem, in a poem addressed to Christ, penned "Thou and thy mother are alone in this—you are wholly beautiful in every respect. There is in thee, Lord, no stain, nor any spot in thy Mother." In praise of Mary, he wrote, "My Lady most holy, all-pure, all-immaculate, all-stainless, all-undefiled, all-incorrupt, all-inviolate . . . spotless robe of Him who clothes himself with light as with a garment . . . flower unfading, purple woven by God, alone most immaculate!"

St. Proclus (446 A.D.), Patriarch of Constantinople, wrote, "Mary is the heavenly orb of a new creation, in whom the Sun of justice, ever shining, has vanished from her soul all the night of sin." St. John Damascene spoke of Mary as "preserved without stain." Although agreeing that Mary was sinless in her behavior, the Church Fathers were divided on the question of her inheritance of original sin. Even the great Thomas Aquinas (1274 A.D.) could not resolve the issue; it remained for John Duns Scotus (1308 A.D.) to propose a "preservative redemption" rather than a "restorative redemption" for Mary. The Church took the decisive step on December 8, 1854, when Peter's successor, the venerable Pope Pius IX, infallibly defined the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. It was by this title that, four years later, Mary identified herself to St. Bernadette at Lourdes. And, in 1954, the first Marian Year was occasioned by the 100th anniversary of the proclamation of this beautiful truth. (See http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/FR90203.htm )​

Apostolic Tradition say no such thing.

In this claim "Apostolic Tradition say no such thing." you err. The quotes shown above are sufficient to show that you err in your claim.

A few individuals began to express that opinion in the 5th Century.

These early church fathers asserted Blessed Mary's sinlessness.

1. Ambrose
2. Augustine
3. Basil
4. Clement of Alexandria
5. Cyril of Alexandria
6. Cyril of Jerusalem
7. Ephraim
8. Gregory Nazianzen
9. Hilary of Poitiers
10. Jerome
11. John Chrysostom
12. Justin Martyr
13. Leo I
14. Origen
15. Tertullian
16. Theodoret

Several wrote in the third century AD, some in the second century AD, some in the fourth century AD, and some in the fifth century AD.

One denomination (the RCC) began to officially teach it in the 12th century. One denomination has made it doctrine, not until 1870 (the RCC). But while Mary can and should be called Blessed, that does not affirm that she was conceived without original sin (much less as dogma).

In the Catholic Church it is a dogma of the faith. In your Lutheran denomination it may not be. Many things that are true are not believed as doctrines of the faith in your Lutheran denomination.

 

[MennoSota]

MC wrote:
This thread is about what the early church fathers had to say about Blessed Mary's sinlessness. The bible implies this doctrine just as the bible implies the dogma of the Blessed and Most Holy Trinity without stating it.

The Bible never implies that Mary the mother of Jesus was sinless. Your assertion is entirely from silence and is invalid.
The teaching of Mary's sinlessness is a dogma created after the Apostles died. It has no strength of argument in comparison to the Trinity. The Trinity actually has many passages in scripture to prove itself. Mary's sinlessness is a made-up fairy tale from a later era.
Mary, like all humanity, was sinful and naturally in rebellion to God. Yet, God graciously chose to Redeem her and bless her by coming to earth as a human.

 

[Arsenios]

Arsenios, I have stated that God's choice to come to earth as a human via Mary's womb was a blessing to her.
For some odd reason (likely your denominational tradition) you image she has been given a supreme title called "Blessed Mary."
You are welcome to call her that.
I won't complain.

The only question is "Do YOU call her Blessed?"

The Bible states you are to call her Blessed...

Yet you refuse to do so...

Because you hate the Latins so much?

Man up, Menno!

Don't be a sissy...

Call her Blessed as the Bible affirms you will do...

But only IF you are one of the generations of Christians...

Are you going to ignore the Bible because of your resentment of those who you think use it wrongly?

Can you not simply call her Blessed?

Just don't imagine she was sinless. The latter is a silly claim that goes against scripture regarding all humanity.

So is it your claim that because Apostolic Churches teach that she was sinless, you therefore refuse to comply with Scripture and call her Blessed?

Because if YOU REFUSE to call her Blessed for any reason, then you scorn the Bible...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

"All generations shall call you Blessed."

That is not the quote from the Bible... The pronoun is not "you" but "me"...

I don't think it's wrong to do that.

Do YOU call her Blessed?

But that does NOT mean that ERGO it is a dogmatic fact what Mary uniquely was conceived without original sin.

Exactly - These are two issues, not one...

The Bible says no such thing. Apostolic Tradition say no such thing. A few individuals began to express that opinion in the 5th Century. One denomination (the RCC) began to officially teach it in the 12th century. One denomination has made it doctrine, not until 1870 (the RCC). But while Mary can and should be called Blessed, that does not affirm that she was conceived without original sin (much less as dogma).

Yup...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Blessed Mary was not conceived without original sin.

What does it mean to be conceived with original sin?

Blessed Mary was conceived without stain of original sin.

What is the stain of original sin that we are all conceived with that the Blessed Virgin was not...??


Arsenios