Salvation - Part 2

[Arsenios]

First, baptism immerses us into Christ.

Baptism ENTERS us INTO Christ...

Read 1 Corinthians 12:13 and say otherwise.

13 For we were all baptized IN one Spirit so as to form one body

The text does NOT say that we are baptized BY the Holy Spirit, but instead says that our Baptism is IN one Spirit so as to form ONE Body... Most translations in the West translate EN here as BY, yet

The Spirit immerses us into Christ. That is what the scriptures tell us

They do NOT tell us BY - They tell us IN...

And Scripture tells us that it is CHRIST Who Baptizes, as you have been shown...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Baptism ENTERS us INTO Christ...



13 For we were all baptized IN one Spirit so as to form one body

The text does NOT say that we are baptized BY the Holy Spirit, but instead says that our Baptism is IN one Spirit so as to form ONE Body... Most translations in the West translate EN here as BY, yet



They do NOT tell us BY - They tell us IN...

And Scripture tells us that it is CHRIST Who Baptizes, as you have been shown...


Arsenios

Baptism means "to immerse." We are one in Christ by the Holy Spirit's action, not by your priests sprinkling techniques.
Water is not associated with baptism in every passage in the Bible. When water is associated, it is always after a person has been saved...never as a means of salvation. Never. Not once.

 

[Albion]

Baptism means "to immerse."

...among other things (which describe how baptisms are performed in most Protestant churches).

 

[MennoSota]

...among other things (which describe how baptisms are performed in most Protestant churches).

Scripture please.

 

[Albion]

Acts 22:16

 

[MennoSota]

Acts 22:16

7*I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me,*‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’

8*“‘Who are you, lord?’ I asked.

“And the voice replied,*‘I am Jesus the Nazarene,*the one you are persecuting.’*9*The people with me saw the light but didn’t understand the voice speaking to me.

10*“I asked, ‘What should I do, Lord?’

“And the Lord told me,*‘Get up and go into Damascus, and there you will be told everything you are to do.’

11*“I was blinded by the intense light and had to be led by the hand to Damascus by my companions.*12*A man named Ananias lived there. He was a godly man, deeply devoted to the law, and well regarded by all the Jews of Damascus.*13*He came and stood beside me and said, ‘Brother Saul, regain your sight.’ And that very moment I could see him!

14*“Then he told me, ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and hear him speak.*15*For you are to be his witness, telling everyone what you have seen and heard.16*What are you waiting for? Get up and be baptized. Have your sins washed away by calling on the name of the Lord.’

It looks like Paul was already chosen and saved at that point. It seems that [MENTION=334]atpollard[/MENTION] is correct. Water baptism comes after salvation.
Thanks, you have supported both Calvinism and my position on baptism in one verse.

 

[Josiah]

When water is associated, it is always after a person has been saved...

.... you know this is false, but.....


Acts 16:15. Prove that every member of the household 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) had first publicly and adequately chanted the sinner's prayer or gave other proof of their preexisting faith in Christ, 3) that adequate water was used to entirely cover all the members of the household.

First Corinthians 1:16 Prove that every member of the household 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) had first publicly and adequately chanted the sinner's prayer or gave other public proof of their preexisting faith in Christ, 3) that adequate water was used to entirely cover all the members of the household.

Can't? Then you foundational CLAIM is a lie.... this has been pointed out to you by several, over and over again, but you just keep parroting your denomination's tradition without concern for it being false.



AND.... you are just parroting your denomination's ABSURD rubric that we can't do anything unless it is illustrated as having been done in the Bible. You make this point by posting on the internet (proving you yourself reject your argument). I'd guess 90% of what your church does on a typical Sunday morning is NOWHERE illustrated as having been done in the Bible but..... your denomination rejects its own argument, as do you. So since you reject the premise (the foundation of the apologetic for these new Baptism dogmas) why should others accept it? This has been pointed out to you by several, over and over again, but you keep parroting your denomination's tradition without any concern for it being false and you yourself rejecting it.




- Josiah




.

 

[MennoSota]

.... you know this is false, but.....


Acts 16:15. Prove that every member of the household 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) had first publicly and adequately chanted the sinner's prayer or gave other proof of their preexisting faith in Christ, 3) that adequate water was used to entirely cover all the members of the household.

First Corinthians 1:16 Prove that every member of the household 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) had first publicly and adequately chanted the sinner's prayer or gave other public proof of their preexisting faith in Christ, 3) that adequate water was used to entirely cover all the members of the household.

Can't? Then you foundational CLAIM is a lie.... this has been pointed out to you by several, over and over again, but you just keep parroting your denomination's tradition without concern for it being false.



AND.... you are just parroting your denomination's ABSURD rubric that we can't do anything unless it is illustrated as having been done in the Bible. You make this point by posting on the internet (proving you yourself reject your argument). I'd guess 90% of what your church does on a typical Sunday morning is NOWHERE illustrated as having been done in the Bible but..... your denomination rejects its own argument, as do you. So since you reject the premise (the foundation of the apologetic for these new Baptism dogmas) why should others accept it? This has been pointed out to you by several, over and over again, but you keep parroting your denomination's tradition without any concern for it being false and you yourself rejecting it.




- Josiah




.

I don't need to prove the age of individuals. I also don't need to argue from silence as you are doing.
All we know is people in the household were also baptized. We have no indication about age. We cannot imply infants just because your church dogma implies it.
So, you have two silent passages where age in the household is not given and thus you force your church dogma/tradition into the silence.
Josiah, do you need consent to baptize people or can you merely baptize as you desire? If consent is not needed, why do you not walk down a street and perform baptisms on all those within sprinkling distance to you? If being redeemed is irrelevant, and that's what you are inferring, then be consistent and baptize all humanity so that perhaps by a miracle someone will be extended grace in that baptism. I'm waiting for you to stop being a hypocrite on this issue. How long must I wait?

 

[Arsenios]

I don't need to prove the age of individuals...
We have no indication about age.
We cannot imply infants...

Then you must prove by Scripture,
according to YOUR false tradition...
That INFANTS are NOT members of a Household...

Do you need consent to baptize people
or
Can you merely baptize as you desire?

In YOUR Household [Ekon(omia) - Strong's number 3423]
In THOSE days...
YOU decide who is and is not Baptized...

In THESE days...
In YOUR household...
YOU determine it as well...

Why would you deny your children the Kingdom of God?

How long must I wait?

As long as necessary...

Do not deny your children Baptism INTO Christ Who IS the Heavenly Kingdom AND its King and Lord...


Arsenios

 

[Josiah]

.... you know this is false, but.....


Acts 16:15. Prove that every member of the household 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) had first publicly and adequately chanted the sinner's prayer or gave other proof of their preexisting faith in Christ, 3) that adequate water was used to entirely cover all the members of the household.

First Corinthians 1:16 Prove that every member of the household 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) had first publicly and adequately chanted the sinner's prayer or gave other public proof of their preexisting faith in Christ, 3) that adequate water was used to entirely cover all the members of the household.

Can't? Then you foundational CLAIM is a lie.... this has been pointed out to you by several, over and over again, but you just keep parroting your denomination's tradition without concern for it being false.



AND.... you are just parroting your denomination's ABSURD rubric that we can't do anything unless it is illustrated as having been done in the Bible. You make this point by posting on the internet (proving you yourself reject your argument). I'd guess 90% of what your church does on a typical Sunday morning is NOWHERE illustrated as having been done in the Bible but..... your denomination rejects its own argument, as do you. So since you reject the premise (the foundation of the apologetic for these new Baptism dogmas) why should others accept it? This has been pointed out to you by several, over and over again, but you keep parroting your denomination's tradition without any concern for it being false and you yourself rejecting it.




- Josiah


.

I don't need to prove the age of individuals.

You either need to prove it - or drop your dogmatic claim that ALL those whose baptism is mentioned in the Bible were over the age of X.

ll we know is people in the household were also baptized. We have no indication about age.

THINK ABOUT THAT....

... so when you post that "EVERY BAPTISM in the Bible was ___________" then you need to show that those in 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15 substantiate that. And you admit, you can't. Thus, your claim is false. Baseless.


Not only is your whole premise SILLY (and one YOU YOURSELF and the Anabaptists reject and don't follow), but it's not even true! You can't show that "EVERY BAPTISM IN THE BIBLE" was of those who 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) Had first publicly and adquately proclaimed their faith in Jesus, 3) Had requested to be baptized, 4) were fully immersed so that no body part was not fully covered by water. Your whole premise is silly.... and isn't true anyway. THINK ABOUT THAT.

 

[MennoSota]

Then you must prove by Scripture,
according to YOUR false tradition...
That INFANTS are NOT members of a Household...



In YOUR Household [Ekon(omia) - Strong's number 3423]
In THOSE days...
YOU decide who is and is not Baptized...

In THESE days...
In YOUR household...
YOU determine it as well...

Why would you deny your children the Kingdom of God?



As long as necessary...

Do not deny your children Baptism INTO Christ Who IS the Heavenly Kingdom AND its King and Lord...


Arsenios

I have no need to prove that that specific household had babies which were baptized. The Bible is completely silent. Since it is you who are reading infants into a silent text, you must prove that infants were indeed baptized in those two passages. Good luck with that.
Silence does not doctrine make.

 

[MennoSota]

You either need to prove it - or drop your dogmatic claim that ALL those whose baptism is mentioned in the Bible were over the age of X.







THINK ABOUT THAT....

... so when you post that "EVERY BAPTISM in the Bible was ___________" then you need to show that those in 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15 substantiate that. And you admit, you can't. Thus, your claim is false. Baseless.


Not only is your whole premise SILLY (and one YOU YOURSELF and the Anabaptists reject and don't follow), but it's not even true! You can't show that "EVERY BAPTISM IN THE BIBLE" was of those who 1) Had first celebrated their Xth birthday, 2) Had first publicly and adquately proclaimed their faith in Jesus, 3) Had requested to be baptized, 4) were fully immersed so that no body part was not fully covered by water. Your whole premise is silly.... and isn't true anyway. THINK ABOUT THAT.

Read my response to Arsenios. You have to prove that the text says infants were baptized with water and it resulted in their salvation. Good luck with that.

 

[Josiah]

When water is associated, it is always after a person has been saved

You have to prove that the text says infants were baptized with water.

No.


#1 Like you and like Baptists, I reject your SILLY rubric that we can only do what is clearly illustrated as having been done as recorded in the NT. You can't impose the SILLY idea you yourself reject on others.


#2 YOU are the one who foundationally claims - over and over and over and over - that EVERY BAPTISM that just happens to be recorded in the NT is of those who first celebrated their Xth birthday and first publicly proved their faith in Jesus. That's YOUR never-ended, constantly parroted claim, not mine! So, substantiate it. Start with 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15. Prove to us that all in those households had 1) First celebrated their Xth Birthday (to support the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma) and 2) first gave adequate public proof of already being a Christian (to support the Credobaptism dogma). Remember: it's YOUR claim (just obviously wrong) flowing from YOUR rubric (silly as it is and obviously denies by you yourself). YOU keep parroting that "EVERY BAPTISM in the Bible is of one who FIRST had attained their Xth birthday and ALREADY were believers. So, prove that: Start with 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15.




.

 

[MennoSota]

No.


#1 Like you and like Baptists, I reject your SILLY rubric that we can only do what is clearly illustrated as having been done as recorded in the NT. You can't impose the SILLY idea you yourself reject on others.


#2 YOU are the one who foundationally claims - over and over and over and over - that EVERY BAPTISM that just happens to be recorded in the NT is of those who first celebrated their Xth birthday and first publicly proved their faith in Jesus. That's YOUR never-ended, constantly parroted claim, not mine! So, substantiate it. Start with 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15. Prove to us that all in those households had 1) First celebrated their Xth Birthday (to support the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma) and 2) first gave adequate public proof of already being a Christian (to support the Credobaptism dogma). Remember: it's YOUR claim (just obviously wrong) flowing from YOUR rubric (silly as it is and obviously denies by you yourself). YOU keep parroting that "EVERY BAPTISM in the Bible is of one who FIRST had attained their Xth birthday and ALREADY were believers. So, prove that: Start with 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15.




.

I read no and stopped.
Josiah, please never claim you support Sola Scriptura because this dialogues proves that claim is false.
I find the disingenuous inability to observe scripture over tradition to be an act of cowardice.

 

[Josiah]

When water is associated, it is always after a person has been saved

I find the disingenuous inability to observe scripture over tradition to be an act of cowardice.

Here's what I find disingenuous....


You insist... over and over and over....."Baptism is ALWAYS AFTER the person has been saved." But when you are asked to substantiate such is the case in 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15, you just whine about how OTHERS are making false claims.


Your endlessly parroting the Anabaptist point that we can only do what is clearly illustrated as done in the NT (a claim you make posting on the internet, go figure!) is disingenuous since you yourself don't accept or follow that... I reject your SILLY premise. But I find it even more disingenuous is that you demand all others accept what you yourself reject and don't accept or follow.


YOU are the one who foundationally claims - over and over and over and over - that EVERY BAPTISM that just happens to be recorded in the NT is of those who first celebrated their Xth birthday and first publicly proved their faith in Jesus. That's YOUR never-ended, constantly parroted claim, not mine! You keep parroting these Anabaptist traditions. So, substantiate it. Start with 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15.

Prove to us that all in those households had 1) First celebrated their Xth Birthday (to support the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma) and 2) first gave adequate public proof of already being a Christian (to support the Credobaptism dogma). Remember: it's YOUR claim (just obviously wrong) flowing from YOUR rubric (silly as it is and obviously denies by you yourself).




.

 

[MennoSota]

Here's what I find disingenuous....


You insist... over and over and over....."Baptism is ALWAYS AFTER the person has been saved." But when you are asked to substantiate such is the case in 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15, you just whine about how OTHERS are making false claims.


Your parroting the Anabaptist point that we can only do what is clearly illustrated as done in the NT (a claim you make posting on the internet, go figure!!!!) is disingenuous since you yourself don't accept or follow that... Like you and like Baptists, I reject your SILLY premise. But I find it even more disingenuous is that you demand all others accept what you yourself reject and don't accept or follow.


YOU are the one who foundationally claims - over and over and over and over - that EVERY BAPTISM that just happens to be recorded in the NT is of those who first celebrated their Xth birthday and first publicly proved their faith in Jesus. That's YOUR never-ended, constantly parroted claim, not mine! You keep parroting these Anabaptist traditions. So, substantiate it. Start with 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15.

Prove to us that all in those households had 1) First celebrated their Xth Birthday (to support the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma) and 2) first gave adequate public proof of already being a Christian (to support the Credobaptism dogma). Remember: it's YOUR claim (just obviously wrong) flowing from YOUR rubric (silly as it is and obviously denies by you yourself).




.

Let us go through each verse on baptism and see. Shall we?

 

[Josiah]

When water is associated, it is always after a person has been saved

Let us go through each verse on baptism and see. Shall we?

Sure. Start with 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15. Substantiate for us your endlessly parroted claim that "EVERY PERSON ever baptized as recorded in the NT had FIRST celebrated their Xth birthday and FIRST made an adequate public proof of their faith in Christ. That's the claim you make - endlessly - now substantiate it.

Then prove to us that YOU YOURSELF accept your foundational premise: that we can only do what we read was recorded as being done in the NT and not otherwise. Start with posting on the internet since you make this claim by posting on the internet. Then you might go through everything your church does - everything - and showing where it is stated in the NT that people then did the same thing.

 

[MennoSota]

Here you go.
Mark 1:8*

I have*baptized you with water, but he will*baptize*you with the Holy Spirit.”

Bible search results

Matthew 3:6

and they were*baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Matthew 3:11

“I*baptize*you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will*baptizeyou with the Holy Spirit and fire.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Matthew 3:13

[*The Baptism of Jesus*] Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be*baptized by him.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Matthew 3:14

John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be*baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Matthew 3:16

And when Jesus was*baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Mark 1:5

And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being*baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Mark 1:8

I have*baptized you with water, but he will*baptize*you with the Holy Spirit.”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Mark 1:9

[*The Baptism of Jesus*] In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was*baptized by John in the Jordan.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Mark 10:38

Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be*baptized with the baptism with which I am*baptized?”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Mark 10:39

And they said to him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you will drink, and with the baptism with which I am*baptized, you will be*baptized,

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is*baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Luke 3:7

He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be*baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Luke 3:12

Tax collectors also came to be*baptized and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Luke 3:16

John answered them all, saying, “I*baptize*you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will*baptize*you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Luke 3:21

Now when all the people were*baptized, and when Jesus also had been*baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened,

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Luke 7:29

(When all the people heard this, and the tax collectors too, they declared God just, having been*baptized with the baptism of John,

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Luke 7:30

but the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the purpose of God for themselves, not having been*baptized by him.)

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Luke 12:50

I have a baptism to be*baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished!

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

John 1:26

John answered them, “I*baptize*with water, but among you stands one you do not know,

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

John 1:33

I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to*baptize*with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who*baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

John 3:23

John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being*baptized

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

John 4:2

(although Jesus himself did not*baptize, but only his disciples),

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 1:5

for John*baptized with water, but you will be*baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be*baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 2:41

So those who received his word were*baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 8:12

But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were*baptized, both men and women.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 8:13

Even Simon himself believed, and after being*baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 8:16

for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been*baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 8:36

And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being*baptized?”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 8:38

And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he*baptized him.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 9:18

And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was*baptized;

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 10:48

And he commanded them to be*baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 11:16

And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John*baptized with water, but you will be*baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 16:15

And after she was*baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 16:33

And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was*baptized at once, he and all his family.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 18:8

Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were*baptized.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 19:3

And he said, “Into what then were you*baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 19:4

And Paul said, “John*baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 19:5

On hearing this, they were*baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Acts 22:16

And now why do you wait? Rise and be*baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Romans 6:3

Do you not know that all of us who have been*baptized into Christ Jesus were*baptized into his death?

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 1:13

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you*baptized in the name of Paul?

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 1:14

I thank God that I*baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 1:15

so that no one may say that you were*baptized in my name.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 1:16

(I did*baptize*also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I*baptized anyone else.)

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to*baptizebut to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 10:2

and all were*baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 12:13

For in one Spirit we were all*baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

1 Corinthians 15:29

Otherwise, what do people mean by being*baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people*baptized on their behalf?

In Context*|*Full Chapter*|*Other Translations

Galatians 3:27

For as many of you as were*baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Josiah]

Mennosota,

Now, remove all the Jewish ones done years before Christian baptism begun....

Show:

1. EVERY baptism was done to those who FIRST attained the magical age of X (supporting your anti-Paedobaptism dogma invented by the Anabaptists in the 16th Century)
2. EVERY baptism was done to those who FIRST gave adequate public proof of their being saved BEFORE the prohibition on baptism could be removed (to support your Credobaptism dogma invented by the Anabaptist denomination 500 years ago)
3. EVERY baptism did nothing, nothing was accomplished by it
4. EVERY baptism was done with sufficient water to entirely cover all the cells of the one being baptized

You know, what you've been parroting since you came to this site.... INSISTING you are just echoing the words of the Bible.... insisting all reject the arguments of any denomination (including yours but ONLY quoting Scripture to substantiate each).

Then prove your premise with the words of Scripture: That we cannot do what is not clearly recorded as having been done in the NT (such as posting on the internet), where does the words of Scripture state that (about baptism or anything for that matter)?

When water is associated, it is always after a person has been saved

Prove that in 1 Corinthians 1:16 and Acts 16:15. Substantiate for us your endlessly parroted claim that "EVERY PERSON ever baptized as recorded in the NT had FIRST celebrated their Xth birthday and FIRST made an adequate public proof of their faith in Christ. That's the claim you make - endlessly - now substantiate it.

Then prove to us that YOU YOURSELF accept your foundational premise: that we can only do what we read was recorded as being done in the NT and not otherwise. Start with posting on the internet since you make this claim by posting on the internet. Then you might go through everything your church does - everything - and showing where it is stated in the NT that people then did the same thing.




.

 

[Arsenios]

I have no need to prove that that specific household had babies which were baptized. The Bible is completely silent. Since it is you who are reading infants into a silent text, you must prove that infants were indeed baptized in those two passages. Good luck with that.
Silence does not doctrine make.

Actually, my Brother, no...

YOU have to PROVE that a HOUSEHOLD EXCLUDES INFANTS...

I have shown that a man's household was baptized...

A household includes all those who are members of that household...

YOU have DENIED that a man's CHILDREN are MEMBERS of his HOUSEHOLD...

It is pretty straight-forward...

Scripture is clear that the household was baptized,
with nothing added saying
"Except infants and children under 14 or so..."

To say that a man's son is not a part of his household is...
Well...
I mean...
YOU know...
Just kinda...
Er...
WRONG!!

Arsenios