Ye are gods

[Can't think of a name]

So, @Can't think of a name, who do you think Jesus was, a mere man or God? I think he was both. He was fully human and fully God. John said it this way:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

The Father and the Person who became a man when he took on human flesh are two Persons but one God, an unfathomable Mystery. He was fully human so that he could die in our place for our forgiveness and fully divine so that he rise from the dead to give us new life.

Obviously I believe Jesus had the Divine nature. So he wasn't just a "mere man". But neither are people mere men when God saves them. "To all who received him, they became the sons of God". This doesn't mean humans become God but that they can unite with Him. This is also known as union with Christ in Theology. We don't become the same as God or His essence, but we partake of Him, we become one with Him. Jesus referred to this at the last supper. Another way of stating this is what is known as Theosis. It has nothing in common with modern charismatic wackos like Kenneth Copeland or anything "New Age". It's as old as Christianity itself. Irenaeus, who was a disciple of Polycarp who in turn knew the apostle John, said "God became man so that man could become God".


Nothing I just wrote is a whit controversial or new. Let me repeat - this has nothing to do with the New Age movement or modern charismatics. I am not a charismatic. I think most of those types are demonized and outright frauds, deluded or simply stupid.

 

[Frankj]

God's Word will ALWAYS... agree with itself.

So if what you are shown DISAGREES with God's Word, then you are being approached by ANOTHER SPIRIT, and not by GOD. And how that can happen is by whom... one listens to and heeds. If you invite those who preach by 'another spirit', like the ones Apostle Paul pointed to in 2 Corinthians 11, then you set yourself up to be misled and deceived.




Right now, your wrong attitude towards the matter reveals that you may not actually care about who is right or wrong, but that your real goal is just to create chaos here, which of course is from another spirit. If you were interested in the Truth, then you would do your best with relying on what the written Word of God says.

You judge me harshly, is that wise?

 

[SetFree]

Obviously I believe Jesus had the Divine nature. So he wasn't just a "mere man". But neither are people mere men when God saves them. "To all who received him, they became the sons of God". This doesn't mean humans become God but that they can unite with Him. This is also known as union with Christ in Theology. We don't become the same as God or His essence, but we partake of Him, we become one with Him. Jesus referred to this at the last supper. Another way of stating this is what is known as Theosis. It has nothing in common with modern charismatic wackos like Kenneth Copeland or anything "New Age". It's as old as Christianity itself. Irenaeus, who was a disciple of Polycarp who in turn knew the apostle John, said "God became man so that man could become God".


Nothing I just wrote is a whit controversial or new. Let me repeat - this has nothing to do with the New Age movement or modern charismatics. I am not a charismatic. I think most of those types are demonized and outright frauds, deluded or simply stupid.

I'm not a Charismatic or New Age follower either. I'm a Protestant Christian. But I keep what The Bible says, not men's traditions.

Yet this matter is still very simple, because God's Word tells us how He made us, and we are not just flesh and blood. We also have a spirit and a soul that dwells inside our flesh which is not made of material matter.


I started a Thread using the word 'science' about the Hebrews 11:3 verse... and it set off materialists here ... when it should not have...

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That above phrase in red is stating that the material things of this world that we see, i.e., material matter, were not created by those things that appear.

In other words, material matter did not create itself.

What did create matter then? Can't be something else made of matter.

In John 4:24, he said GOD is a Spirit. That means our Heavenly Father in Heaven is not made up of earthly material matter. He is not dwelling on some far away planet or solar system. He dwells in another dimension that we cannot see with our naked eye.

That also means, since GOD is The Creator of all things, that this earthly material world of matter was created from that other dimension of Spirit where He is.

Likewise Lord Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) In 1 Corinthians 15:50, Apostle Paul said, "... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."


Now just because those parts of God's written Word are seldom taught on Sundays does not mean they are not written, and that we are not to understand them. Those pointers to that other dimension of Spirit exist throughout The Word of God, so to just omit them, or act like they do not exist, is like telling our Heavenly Father we don't really care about His Promised Salvation, which is to our 'spirit/soul', and not to our flesh.

 

[SetFree]

You judge me harshly, is that wise?

You never did answer my question...


So... do you believe those Scriptures that I point to above as written? or not. And if not, then why not?

And also referring the Scripture I covered at the following link?

Fleshy Thinking About Jesus as GOD

We are given Bible Scripture evidence revealing that Lord Jesus Christ is GOD The Son, and not just 'a God'. Jesus Christ is part of The GODHEAD of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. That is three Persons in The Godhead manifest as One. Thing is, the flesh cannot understand this, even...

christianityhaven.com

 

[Oseas]

I'm not a Charismatic or New Age follower either. I'm a Protestant Christian. But I keep what The Bible says, not men's traditions.

Yet this matter is still very simple, because God's Word tells us how He made us, and we are not just flesh and blood. We also have a spirit and a soul that dwells inside our flesh which is not made of material matter.


I started a Thread using the word 'science' about the Hebrews 11:3 verse... and it set off materialists here ... when it should not have...

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That above phrase in red is stating that the material things of this world that we see, i.e., material matter, were not created by those things that appear.

In other words, material matter did not create itself.

What did create matter then? Can't be something else made of matter.

In John 4:24, he said GOD is a Spirit. That means our Heavenly Father in Heaven is not made up of earthly material matter. He is not dwelling on some far away planet or solar system. He dwells in another dimension that we cannot see with our naked eye.

That also means, since GOD is The Creator of all things, that this earthly material world of matter was created from that other dimension of Spirit where He is.

Likewise Lord Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) In 1 Corinthians 15:50, Apostle Paul said, "... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."


Now just because those parts of God's written Word are seldom taught on Sundays does not mean they are not written, and that we are not to understand them. Those pointers to that other dimension of Spirit exist throughout The Word of God, so to just omit them, or act like they do not exist, is like telling our Heavenly Father we don't really care about His Promised Salvation, which is to our 'spirit/soul', and not to our flesh.

Yes, GOD created four heavens by His Word ->(Isaiah 51:16), i.e. the 1st, 2nd and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens, but He sat upon the circle of the Earth.

GOD created four heavens, but He sat upon the circle of the earth

Yes, GOD created four heavens by His Word(Isaiah 51:16), i.e. the 1st, 2nd and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens, but He sat upon the circle of the Earth - Isaiah 40:22KJV also Nevi'im (Prophets) Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 40:22 - Hebrew Bible - : "It is He Who sits above the circle of the...

purebibleforum.com

 

[SetFree]

Yes, GOD created four heavens by His Word ->(Isaiah 51:16), i.e. the 1st, 2nd and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens, but He sat upon the circle of the Earth.

Isa 51:16
16 And I have put My words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of Mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, "Thou art My people."
KJV

That does not say God created 4 heavens. It's the foundations of the earth that have 4 corners. God only created 2 heavens per Genesis 1, the sky around the earth, and the Heavenly abode where He and the angels dwell, which is in an invisible dimension.

I have to think that English is not your primary language, and you might want to study it more.

 

[Oseas]

Isa 51:16
16 And I have put My words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of Mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, "Thou art My people."
KJV

That does not say God created 4 heavens. It's the foundations of the earth that have 4 corners. God only created 2 heavens per Genesis 1, the sky around the earth, and the Heavenly abode where He and the angels dwell, which is in an invisible dimension.

Brother, remember that Moses wrote the Torah: Deuteronomy 10:14 says:-> 14 Behold, to the Lord, your God, belong the heavens and the heavens of the heavens, the earth, and all that is on it.

And Paul Apostle wrote: 2Corinthians 12:2-4:-> 2->2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knowethsuch an one caught up to the third heaven.

So, once there is 3rd heaven,then there are also the 1st and 2nd heavens. And Peter Apostle wrote:->2Peter 3:7:-> The heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW->(the 1st and 2nd heavens, the 3rd will be established from now on->Luke 20:35-36 combined with Revelation 11:15-18, take a look), by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against the Day of judgment->(the Lord's Day) and perdition of ungodly men. I work with the Word of GOD.

I have to think that English is not your primary language, and you might want to study it more.

You are right, English is not my native language. I'm from Brazil. I live in the city called Joinville, in the state of Santa Catarina, southern Brazil, and near Argentina.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Ecclesiastes indicates all spirits return to God, not simply that some of them do.

Is this what you are intending to say? That the spiritual part of men returns to God and only that part and that makes all men the sons of God?

What parts of Ecclesiastes are you talking about, Frankj?

 

[Frankj]

What parts of Ecclesiastes are you talking about, Frankj?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 specifically.

I find it interesting to note that the word used for spirit is also translatable as wind or breath. This would make sense in that god formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed life into him and on death the body goes back to being earth and the breath, the animator of the body, returns to God from which it came.

(My thoughts, not necessarily correct ones but ones that help me contemplate the nature of death, is that it is like electricity that leaves a battery, powers a device then returning to the battery after it has done its work.)

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[FredVB]

Jesus wanted people to know God like he did. This is why Jesus prayed. God does not pray to Himself.

If it is possible for you to explain God praying to Himself, I would like to know what that is and what that means. I can understand how a human can be in union with God but not how that human can be God and how there are intricacies of thought in that whole deal. Yet, why would Jesus tell other human beings that they can be one with God like he was if there exists an interpretation that says Jesus was God almighty that appears to refute that?

There is this dilemma for any who do not understand the meaning of statements for the triunity of God. There is only one God, one being that is the only savior. Isaiah said it that clearly. The Word was with God and is God, and came in the flesh to dwell among humanity. There are several more passages showing the unity of the Father in heaven, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and ones showing any one of them is truly God. Of course the right understanding is with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit being in full unity. There is communication in full agreement between them, it still is not God talking to himself. Each has distinct roles of the one Supreme Being, God, the one revealed in the Bible as Yahweh.

 

[Can't think of a name]

There is this dilemma for any who do not understand the meaning of statements for the triunity of God. There is only one God, one being that is the only savior. Isaiah said it that clearly. The Word was with God and is God, and came in the flesh to dwell among humanity. There are several more passages showing the unity of the Father in heaven, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and ones showing any one of them is truly God. Of course the right understanding is with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit being in full unity. There is communication in full agreement between them, it still is not God talking to himself. Each has distinct roles of the one Supreme Being, God, the one revealed in the Bible as Yahweh.

It's a dilemma for everybody because nobody can understand it.

 

[FredVB]

It's a dilemma for everybody because nobody can understand it.

How do you know that? Is there a scripture passage you would point out that says that?

 

[BruceLeiter]

Obviously, Jesus appealed to the Old Testament scriptures to condone his own usage of the words "son of God". That was the point of his argument. He equated his status as a son of God to the Pharisees' as being also sons of God like him. This is why Jesus is seen as dining with Pharisees and speaking face to face with them in a guest house and why he said to them, "The Kingdom of God is within you".

In other words, Jesus wanted people to know God like he did. This is why Jesus prayed. God does not pray to Himself.

If it is possible for you to explain God praying to Himself, I would like to know what that is and what that means. I can understand how a human can be in union with God but not how that human can be God and how there are intricacies of thought in that whole deal. Yet, why would Jesus tell other human beings that they can be one with God like he was if there exists an interpretation that says Jesus was God almighty that appears to refute that?

Irenaeus was the disciple of Polycarp who was the disciple of John who was the disciple of Jesus. Irenaeus said "God became man that man might become God". This is a 1st century apostle telling you that Jesus taught the idea of Theosis or deification. Certainly we can find this type of language in the Bible. But the problem is that Christians of very orthodox bent are making a trinity doctrine out of Jesus and they refuse to admit facts in historical theology and metaphysical realities by elevating Christ in ways he himself did not intend.

The Bible says that when the Jews heard that Jesus was making himself equal to God by calling himself the son of God and they picked up stones to stone him to death, this does not mean "The Jews understood Jesus made himself out to be God incarnate". Most people seem to miss that simple difference.

@Can't think of a name, do you know the other passages in which Jesus claims to be God? The solution is that the Father and Jesus have both fully divine status, but they have different roles. As a result, the second Person of God somehow limited himself to add a human nature to his deity. Check out these verses:

All of Jesus’ “I am” claims are metaphors, that is, figurative words that relate everyday things and people to spiritual reality. He said the following to claim that he is God with the Father and the Holy Spirit:

Joh 6:32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Joh 6:34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”
Joh 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Jhn_8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Jhn_10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.
Jhn_10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Jhn_10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

Jhn_11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

Jhn_14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jhn_15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
Jhn_15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

With these “I ams,” Jesus identifies himself with the God of Moses’ burning bush:

Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Exo 3:15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

And Jesus’ claim to be the good Shepherd says that he is King David’s divine Shepherd:

Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.