Why was Mary necessary?

[George]

Unfortunately Nestorianism is present in this thread, as well as Arianism.

 

[visionary]

Mary's contribution .... the flesh

 

[pinacled]

Pinacled, could you explain your posts since they don't really seem to relate to the topic?

Which one? The three from Deuteronomy are a response to the op.

 

[pinacled]

I have no clue how Pharaoh relates to this.

You asked why was Mary necessary. Did you read the 3 chapters of Deuteronomy?

 

[TurtleHare]

You asked why was Mary necessary. Did you read the 3 chapters of Deuteronomy?

HOW in the world does that connect to Mary?

 

[Lamb]

Mary's contribution .... the flesh

This is true since Mary didn't just carry our Lord, but her egg was used in conception.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Mary's contribution .... the flesh

How many mothers would accept the words in your post applied to their children?

 

[pinacled]

HOW in the world does that connect to Mary?

I had hoped George would respond so that the opening question of the thread can be addressed. Whether not it is apparent All the scripture I posted is relative.

 

[Lamb]

Could you share with us on how you are connecting the verses in Deuteronomy with how Mary is necessary please?

 

[Josiah]

Unfortunately Nestorianism is present in this thread, as well as Arianism.

Shocking, isn't it? But it's not just echoed, it's defended and promoted - knowingly.

 

[pinacled]

If it is so shocking. Then cease the promotion.

 

[Josiah]

Unfortunately Nestorianism is present in this thread, as well as Arianism.

Those heresies are not only "present" but promoted and defended.

It IS disturbing.



A blessed Lent to you and yours...


- Josiah

 

[Tigger]

I agree. Mother's are highly influential to their children on many different levels. Plus IMHO I prefer to let Tradition fill in a lot of the details, where it doesn't over ride or infringe on scripture in anyway. I believe the BVM was chosen before all creation through God's foreknowledge 'like the rest of us into our own callings', to be the mother of our Lord. With that I'd like to add that is it was highly possible her parents being barren until late in life, in that Jewish culture, could have dedicated her to the temple through her early years, as an oath of gratitude to the Lord. And later her husband Joseph being of like mind and of older years, to take her into his home. Into a celibate relationship, that would benefit both of them being Joseph loosing the wife of his youth, needed help raising his own children.

P.S. Not intending to derail the thread much beyond my personal summary.

How many mothers would accept the words in your post applied to their children?

 

[pinacled]

I have no clue how Pharaoh relates to this.

Like I said Language barrier. Pay close attention to detail. And allow the Holy Spirit to guide.
3 sons of Noah
Ham, Shem, Japheth.
The School Master Leads to Christ. And Christ is the Teacher.
13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.


1 All the commandment which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which HaShem swore unto your fathers.
2 And thou shalt remember all the way which HaShem thy G-d hath led thee these forty years in the wilderness, that He might afflict thee, to prove thee, to know what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep His commandments, or no.
3 And He afflicted thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that He might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every thing that proceedeth out of the mouth of HaShem doth man live.


4 Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years.

5 And thou shalt consider in thy heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so HaShem thy G-d chasteneth thee.
6 And thou shalt keep the commandments of HaShem thy G-d, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.
7 For HaShem thy G-d bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths, springing forth in valleys and hills;
8 a land of wheat and barley, and vines and fig-trees and pomegranates; a land of olive-trees and honey;
9 a land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, thou shalt not lack any thing in it; a land whose stones are iron, and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass.
10 And thou shalt eat and be satisfied, and bless HaShem thy G-d for the good land which He hath given thee.

Beware: What happened to Ramses when he set his heart up as ten diadems like a beast coming up out of the Sea, purposing in his heart that by wealth he would rule.

11 Beware lest thou forget HaShem thy G-d, in not keeping His commandments, and His ordinances, and His statutes, which I command thee this day;
12 lest when thou hast eaten and art satisfied, and hast built goodly houses, and dwelt therein;
13 and when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied;
14 then thy heart be lifted up, and thou forget HaShem thy G-d, who brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage;
and thou say in thy heart: 'My power and the might of my hand hath gotten me this wealth.'

1 Corinthians 10
…3and all ate the same spiritual food;4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.…
15 who led thee through the great and dreadful wilderness, wherein were serpents, fiery serpents, and scorpions, and thirsty ground where was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;
16 who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that He might afflict thee, and that He might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;

Zeru; Son of Tamar and?
Zechariah 4

4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.4:2 And said unto me,
What seest thou?
And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.4:4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying,
What are these, my lord? 4:5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me,
Knowest thou not what these be?
And I said, No, my lord.4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying,

This is the word of the LORD unto Zeru,bbabel, saying,
Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Genealogy?
ZeruCord, Staff and Seal

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal;21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
18 But thou shalt remember HaShem thy G-d, for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
19 And it shall be, if thou shalt forget HaShem thy G-d, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I forewarn you this day that ye shall surely perish.

 

[TurtleHare]

Umm. What? Not sure how Language barrier is the problem when you haven't made clear how this in any way shape or form deals with the topic? Are you in the right thread?

 

[pinacled]

Umm. What? Not sure how Language barrier is the problem when you haven't made clear how this in any way shape or form deals with the topic? Are you in the right thread?

Sorry there just isnt enough room to layout in entirety what I wish to show. There is limited text space. So I have to improvise. Take a closer look at the genealogy accounts of Messiah.
Matthew 1New International Version (NIV)

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,

3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,

Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,

5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,

Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.

David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,

7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

Is anyone paying attention to time frames.

 

[pinacled]

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/zerah/

44"The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

 

[Josiah]

Sorry.... I've NOT A CLUE what any of this has to do with Mary.... or how it affirms the heresy of Nestorianism.

Mary is mentioned rarely in the Bible but one of those places is Matthew 1:18 that specifically, precisely, verbatim calls Mary the "MOTHER OF JESUS." And of course, Titus 3:13 (etc.) specifically, precisely, verbatim calls that very same Jesus "GOD". Thus, the Bible teaches that Mary is the "Mother" of "God". NOT the mother of the Trinity or the mother of the Father or the Source of the Divine but rather - specifically, precisely, verbatim - the "Mother" of "God." You can put as little or as much importance on that as you please, but it is what it is.



.

 

[visionary]

Titus 3:13 Do everything you can to help Zena the lawyer and Apollos on their way and see that they have everything they need.

I am looking for "God" in this verse.

 

[Josiah]

.


Matthew 1:18, "This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His MOTHER, Mary, was....." So, what precisely, verbatim, exactly is Mary called here?


Titus 2:13, "While we wait for the glorious appearing of our GOD and Savior - Jesus Christ." So, Jesus (the one whom Mary bore.... the one who came from the womb of Mary.... is verbatim, precisely, exactly called what?


For some 70 pages (!!!), some of us have argued that it is biblical and permissible to state that Mary is the mother of Jesus who is God, and thus the title is theologically and biblically correct - Matthew 1:18 and Titus 2:13 are not wrong, are not heretical, are not "false, wrong and blasphemy" as several "Evangelicals" here at CH have insisted (for SEVENTY PAGES!!!!).

Now, we've agreed that several "titles" that do not exist, that have never existed, that no one on the planet Earth professes or believes, that no one besides a few "Evangelicals" here at CH have even had the WILD imagination to invent.... "titles" such as "Mary - Mother of the Triinity" or "Mary - the God of God" or "Mary - The Source of God" or "Mary - Mother of the Father" - of course, those absurd, unthinkable "titles" that NO ONE ON THE PLANET believes or affirms or states (no one but a few here even has THOUGHT of them) - sure, those are "false, wrong and blasphemy" but then no one here is discussing those titles for one very simple reason: they don't exist. They never have. They spring from the wild, incredible imagination of a few "Evangelicals" here at CH.

But we've found, the rejection of Matthew 1:18 and Titus 2:13 springs from their affirmation of Nestorianism - one of the worse, most destructive heresies in the history of Christianity. It seems these "Evangelicals" are Nestorians, promoters of this ancient, condemned, horrible, destructive heresy. They reject the title for EXACTLY the same reasons Nestorius did - even verbatim echoing his heretical words. I think that shocked us all. I did not know that full-brown, radical Nestorianism still existed - much less seems popular in modern American "Evangelicalism." I think several of us here at CH were shocked to see this!!!! And when we repeatedy pointed out the heresy, what we got was either "I don't care" or okay, I'm promoting a universally condemned horrible heresy that nearly destroyed Christianity.




Thank you.



- Josiah




.