Josiah,I am presenting a biblical view of God's sovereignty as expressed in scripture
... and no one disagrees with a single verse you choose to quote or reference. And I'M certainly not disagreeing with you on why some are saved. I'm disagreeing with both Calvin and Arminius' conjectures as to why some are NOT saved, and thus with you as you parrot the uber, radical "take" on Calvins' conjecture. THAT, in my view, clearly contradicts Scripture and presents a not only unbiblical but horrible, terrifying theology.
Either God is Sovereign or he isn't
It seems to me that I accept His soverignty FAR more than you. He is NOT subject to your corrections, your conjectures, your "spins" to make what He declared "mean" the exact opposite. My acceptance of His sovereignty means I accept what He has chosen to say - fully - and if I don't understand it, I submit to His sovereignty rather than insist that God submits to mine. IMO, if you actually accepted God's sovereignty, you would not be SO persistent in correcting Him, in "answering" things for Him, in trying to make Him "logical"
It seems FAR more than you, I accept HIS sovereignty...
and I accept His love. Scripture flatly states, "God is love" (although I don't think there is a verse that says "God is sovereign"). I do not insist these qualities MUST be contradictions because they seem so to ME and God must submit to ME. I do not make all choose between the two as if one is wrong. YOU may demand that these two qualities "work" in a way that seems 'logical' to your own individual, fallen, sinful, limited, human brain (because God is subject to such) but I'm okay accepting both just as God as declared. Accepting His sovereignty means accepting He does not need my corrections, my spins, my brain, my answers, my limitations.
You may hate God and call him a tyrant.
Where?
Of course, God has declared "God is love." "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him will not parish but will have life everlasting." Just as Arminius must circumvent SO many Scriptures to make his theory seem 'logical' so in exactly the same way and to exactly the same degree, uber-Calvinists must do the very same thing. Both are equally "smart" and both do exactly the same things - they just must circumvent different Scriptures, they both must replace God's sovereignty with their own, they both must subject God to their own tiny, puny, fallen, sinful, human brains and conjectures because self is just smarter than God.
I find it curious - all these debates between uber Calvinists and Arminianists for nearly 500 years - all doing EXACTLY the same things to EXACTLY the same degree - each so clearly seeing that error in each other but not in themselves. Both equally rejecting God's sovereignty, both simply circumventing the Scriptures the other notes as "meaning" the exact opposite of what they declare, both insisting that God just isn't as smart as self, both appointing self as the designated Corrector of God. I find it.... well..... ironic that the Calvin side speaks of sovereignty when they seems to so clearly circumvent it. Their own brain is what they regard as sovereign... even God is declared subject to such. And ironic, too, from a history perspective: Protestantism began, in part, as a rejection of Catholicisms abandonment of mystery and its obsession with subjecting Scripture and ancient Tradition to the brain of itself, making theology "jibe" with the philosophy, "science" and theories of the RCC rather than allowing Scripture (and the earliest Tradition, called "Mysteries") stand. Yet, quickly, Calvin and Arminius return to the very thing they condemned - WORSE than the RCC ever did; at this point, all they did is replace THEIR conjectures (that violate Scripture) for the RCC and ITS medieval conjectures (that violate Scripture).
Well, I'm sure He does as fallen, sinful individuals declare themselves smarter than He in divine matters....
But when some fallen, sinful man declares self to be the Corrector of God.... declare that often God misspoke... declare that God was very often misleading in a very important matter..... when mere sinful mortals appoint self as the Answerer for God.... then I doubt He laughs.
Scripture calls on us to be "Stewards of the Mysteries of God." Nowhere does Scripture state, "Some fallen, sinful, mortal human must designate himself as The Corrector of God, The Answerer for God in order to make God seem 'logical' to them, in order to make God jibe with the pop ideas of the day, in order to get God out of error." Protestantism was born out of rejecting that.... and yet many Protestants QUICKLY returned to it - more radically than Catholicism ever did. Luther said, "Humility is the foundation of all God theology" (sounds like ACCEPTING the sovereignty of God!) whereas other Protestants quickly returned to "Submission to my brain and logic and philosophy and theories is the definition of smart theology." Christians miss out on God's blessing when they assert that they are rulers over their own life and that God is merely an advisor in their own little kingdom. They fail to realize that being a lowly servant in the house of God is a million times better than being a pauper ruling his homeless cardboard hut.
A blessed New Year to all....
- Josiah
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Hey, that rhymes, I gotta remember that)...
