Was the blood moon experience a disappointment?

[Hammster]

You know not scripture..."before" the great and terrible day... is not instantaneous right after.

I never claimed it was.

 

[visionary]

Funny how Jesus disagrees with you in the passage that was referenced.

Jesus can disagree with what the Pharisee were leading to but your understanding of the conversation misses the details and is at a level that goes way over your head.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus can disagree with what the Pharisee were leading to but your understanding of the conversation misses the details and is at a level that goes way over your head.

I'm sure it does.

 

[pinacled]

It cannot mean what it never meant. Jesus said if you saw a sign, you'd know what it was for and it would come to pass. He never indicated that you would have to figure it out later.

Brother the very scripture I provided was a sign of Baptism. Would you like me to continue?

 

[Brighten04]

I'm not convinced that what we saw was what Joel had in mind. But let's say that it is. We've had a blood moon. We've had many. It says

The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. - Joel 2:31

So if this is true, nothing else needs to happen before Christ comes.

Would you say a solar eclipse was the sun turning to darkness?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Would you say a solar eclipse was the sun turning to darkness?

From the perspective of a very limited region on Earth it is "dark" but most of the people on Earth do not see a total eclipse when there's a solar eclipse so the idea that "The sun shall be turned into darkness" cannot be a solar eclipse if it is expected to be world wide.

 

[tango]

Since when has "I don't know" been an invalid answer to a question brother? I did say I don't know if this blood moon is significant to Israel. I think it possibly could be, there is a lot going on over there. We are here hopefully to share and edify each other in this forum. At least this is my purpose for being here. And no, I don't deal in mysticism. I, in faith, watch the Word of God for fulfillment of His prophecies . I realize people do not want to see prophecies fulfilled. Some say they have already been fulfilled. Now those people really have itching ears. And what part of watch don't you understand?

I rather get the impression there's mixed ideas going on here.

If we start from the original premise that the blood moon was significant it's not unreasonable to expect the person making the claim to demonstrate why they believe it to be significant. In that context "I don't know" is pretty lame - the two statements combine to form "this event is significant but I can't say how or why", which is clearly a lame position that has nothing to defend against the counter-claim that "this event is not significant".

When other people join in the discussion it's not as unreasonable for them to say "I believe it may be significant but as yet don't know how or why, but based on historical precedence signs in the heavens like this have usually been significant so it's not unreasonable to believe this one may also be significant". There may still be no particular substance to the claim that this specific event is significant but at least there is some evidence of thought, a previous pattern, etc.

Watching is good but without an idea of what we are watching for it just becomes another vague spiritual-sounding meme that has no substance. Are we watching for angels in the sky, demons emerging from the ground, churches to be filled, churches to be abandoned, Christians to be persecuted by governments, Christians to be sidelined by businesses, some other faith to rise suddenly in power, what exactly? The watchman on the city wall would be watching for specific threats - they would know not to sound the alarm because a jackal walked past or the clouds drifted in front of the moon. Unless we know what we are watching for all that's going to happen is that we're going to get very jumpy, justifying it all under the banner of "we're watching".

 

[tango]

It is hard to explain if the person doesn't want to hear it. Second, giving the explanations doesn't help when the source is ridiculed like "hebrew mindset".

Even if the person asking the question doesn't want to hear the answer (which is itself something of an assumption) you never know when answering a question with a straight answer will help another reader. If the only response to a question is something along the lines of "you won't listen anyway" then it's really hard to figure out whether you actually have an answer to the question at all or if you're just using bluff and bluster to avoid the question. (To be clear I'm using "you" in a generic sense, not you as an individual)

There is s much study that goes into the value of "signs and seasons". It is like explaining the woman in Revelation with the crown of stars is not symbolic as it is a time when that is the sign of in the heavens happens. It is like explaining that in synagogues they use to have the Mazzaroth. Mazzaroth is the Hebrew word for constellations. The primary use of the astronomical bodies is for calculating times and seasons and to serve as signs. The menorah consisted of seven candles, corresponding to the seven “moving stars” [from our earthly perspective]– the sun, the moon, and the five planets closest to the earth. Arranged upon the Table were twelve loaves of showbread, corresponding to the twelve constellations used as astrological signs of the Mazzaroth. Do not confuse this with astrology which makes it personal. It is not. It is the story of redemption written in the signs and seasons [pattern in which the stars, sun, and moon follow of the course of time]. What is God's purpose for the heavenly planets, alignments, sun, moon and stars? Season ....You can find all of the feasts of the Lord in Lev 23 and they are all cyclic around the Sun, Stars, and Moon. God planted all the cycles of planets, stars, and our sun and moon with precision, purpose, and appointed times to teach us about His appointed times. There is much more to understand.Notice that the heavens and the earth are witnesses against us by declaring His righteousness and we are suppose to see what the heavens are declaring as it is to His Glory. Proclaim This doesn't mean we are to worship the messenger. Only God gets this honor.In this verse there is also a warning. The “heavenly array” could also be translated the “heavenly army”. This is a military term! Think about Revelation and the things of heaven thrown down upon the wicked.Constellation The Hebrew mindset considers all this like another book to learn and know the will of God. The Hebrew word Mazal, which literally means the astrological sign which comes from the stars, has been said to really be composed of three words: makom, z’man, limmud, being in the right place at the right time and knowing how to utilize those opportunities. Constellation order, birth order, numerical order, and alphabet order are all part of understanding the connection. There is one tribe in particular that made it their study to know the stars.And we know that there were three "wise" men from the east who obviously knew how to read the stars and what it meant.

This sounds reasonable, the sun and moon clearly divide the day from the night, the Jewish calendar is based on lunar cycles so it makes sense that the stars and the moon should be used as signs. But none of that gives anything specific as to why one blood moon is more or less significant than another. The notion that "the heavens declare the glory of God" doesn't translate to whether or not one particular lunar event is significant. This is the bit that still appears to be missing. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen the moon turn anything from yellow to orange to blood red, and on precisely none of those occasions has it proven to be a sign pointing to anything of any consequence. This most recent one also appears to have come and gone without incident. So I guess I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it meant anything at all, and how they came to that specific conclusion.

I don't dispute that "signs in the heavens" may be relevant but that general principle doesn't mean that any one incident that may be considered "a sign" actually points to anything of interest.

 

[Hammster]

Would you say a solar eclipse was the sun turning to darkness?

Maybe. The sun turned dark during the crucifixion, and that wasn't an eclipse. Even if it is an eclipse, the prophecy is clear. It says nothing of Israel, or wars or whatever you guys are trying to make it say.

 

[tango]

It was a proof text to those whos Hearts have been spoken for.

You're going to have to do better than make vague implications that some people are somehow lesser Christians.

 

[MoreCoffee]

From the perspective of a very limited region on Earth it is "dark" but most of the people on Earth do not see a total eclipse when there's a solar eclipse so the idea that "The sun shall be turned into darkness" cannot be a solar eclipse if it is expected to be world wide.

Maybe. The sun turned dark during the crucifixion, and that wasn't an eclipse. Even if it is an eclipse, the prophecy is clear. It says nothing of Israel, or wars or whatever you guys are trying to make it say.

For the sun to be darkened world wide implies something much more serious than the moon's shadow being cast over a small area on Earth's surface.

 

[tango]

Maybe. The sun turned dark during the crucifixion, and that wasn't an eclipse. Even if it is an eclipse, the prophecy is clear. It says nothing of Israel, or wars or whatever you guys are trying to make it say.

The sun was recorded as having turned dark although whether that was a local or global phenomenon isn't clear.

Whatever all this means, the gospel was something that could be understood and relayed by first century fishermen who probably weren't the intellectual types. If that same gospel was supposed to be spread across the entire world, chances are it's supposed to be something that the less intellectual can still grasp without having to figure out what significance should be attributed to a blood moon being visible from Jerusalem during a specific Jewish feast.

 

[Hammster]

The sun was recorded as having turned dark although whether that was a local or global phenomenon isn't clear.

Whatever all this means, the gospel was something that could be understood and relayed by first century fishermen who probably weren't the intellectual types. If that same gospel was supposed to be spread across the entire world, chances are it's supposed to be something that the less intellectual can still grasp without having to figure out what significance should be attributed to a blood moon being visible from Jerusalem during a specific Jewish feast.

Agreed.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The sun was recorded as having turned dark although whether that was a local or global phenomenon isn't clear.

Whatever all this means, the gospel was something that could be understood and relayed by first century fishermen who probably weren't the intellectual types. If that same gospel was supposed to be spread across the entire world, chances are it's supposed to be something that the less intellectual can still grasp without having to figure out what significance should be attributed to a blood moon being visible from Jerusalem during a specific Jewish feast.

Agreed.

Seems to me that John Hagee's references to blood moons and the sun turning dark entirely skips over where solar eclipses are seen and where lunar eclipses are seen; in Perth the most recent lunar eclipse was not visible. In fact for 1/2 of the Earth surface the most recent lunar eclipse was not visible and solar total eclipses are visible only for very few people because the area of totality is so small. If one assumes that all this is about visibility from Israel then the blood moons of the past 4 years and the most recent solar eclipse would all have to be visible in Jerusalem and they were not. I think this whole scheme of interpretation is concocted nonsense.

 

[pinacled]

For the sun to be darkened world wide implies something much more serious than the moon's shadow being cast over a small area on Earth's surface.

Remember Our Lord Chose a people place and time to Reveal himself. According to a Promise. Depending on a call of choice.

 

[visionary]

Seems to me that John Hagee's references to blood moons and the sun turning dark entirely skips over where solar eclipses are seen and where lunar eclipses are seen; in Perth the most recent lunar eclipse was not visible. In fact for 1/2 of the Earth surface the most recent lunar eclipse was not visible and solar total eclipses are visible only for very few people because the area of totality is so small. If one assumes that all this is about visibility from Israel then the blood moons of the past 4 years and the most recent solar eclipse would all have to be visible in Jerusalem and they were not. I think this whole scheme of interpretation is concocted nonsense.

Jewish scholars thing sun eclipses are for those other nations, while moon eclipse involve them, especially this last one which was over Jerusalem on one of the three feasts all Jews are to be in Jerusalem for. They take that personally as significant. From past experiences, they look for war, and do everything in their power to prevent it.

 

[visionary]

For the sun to be darkened world wide implies something much more serious than the moon's shadow being cast over a small area on Earth's surface.

Who said it is world wide? All you need is an event that effect the way of the world. For example, the seven day war was in Israel, not the world, but does it effect the world we know,YES.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who said it is world wide? All you need is an event that effect the way of the world. For example, the seven day war was in Israel, not the world, but does it effect the world we know,YES.

If you keep lowering the bar soon any moon and any day will fit the prophecy :lol:

 

[visionary]

Another fascinating event in the heavens... http://www.timesofisrael.com/as-planets-align-some-see-return-of-jesus-star-of-bethlehem/

 

[psalms 91]

Interesting