Under investigation

[Cassia]

As long as "saint Justin" is PM Canada will remain free

You may be a Canadian citizen having a right to an opinion but as time goes on less and less are as optimistic. But do be careful as to what your opinion is because you may be jailed for expressing it inside of these borders.

 

[Cassia]

They need to find the facts not just something to find just to impeach him.

Back to topic I completely agree. Sorry for the link that thru it off.

 

[tango]

The USA west coast and north east cost ought to secede from the the USA and either join Canada - a bastion of true democracy - or form a new nation.

Given the split in voting in the US where coastal states tend to lean Democrat while those in the middle tend to lean Republican, that might actually be a good thing for everybody. The people who want a Democrat government can have a Democrat government while the people who want a Republican government can have a Republican government. Those who make offhand comments about moving if the wrong candidate wins need only move to a different state to live under the government of their choosing. Admittedly that means more of a move for a Democrat living in Nebraska than it does for a Republican living in New Jersey but it's a more viable option than moving to Europe.

At present it's little more than a split that's 50-50, give or take, where a tiny majority shifts the balance of power so that those who end up in the (however slim) majority claim a mandate to govern their way while those in the (however slim) minority are expected to deal with it. Since it's unlikely we're ever going to see the powers of government rolled back in a way that protects the minority from the government they didn't want, maybe splitting nations isn't such a bad idea.

Of course given that the pro-Democrat leanings are strongest in areas of high population density (the map of how counties voted is truly remarkable to see, with small pockets of blue in a sea of red) so it's a bit of a blow if you're a Republican in rural California and end up stuck with the government elected by LA and San Francisco, but at least moving to Nevada to escape it is easier than leaving the country.

 

[tango]

Speaking of "under investigation", if an investigation alone is enough to impeach a sitting President doesn't the same logic mean that Hillary Clinton should have been disqualified from her presidential campaign because she was "under investigation" over the email server issue?

 

[Saucy]

The USA west coast and north east cost ought to secede from the the USA and either join Canada - a bastion of true democracy - or form a new nation.

Um, the beauty of a true democracy is that sometimes someone gets into power you don't like. This is exactly what happened. By pulling only the liberal aspects of this country away from the rest, you're not intending true democracy or to hear the thoughts and opinions of those who oppose you, but only those who agree with you, to create some perfect liberal haven?

 

[psalms 91]

I rather like the idea of Canada

 

[tango]

Um, the beauty of a true democracy is that sometimes someone gets into power you don't like. This is exactly what happened. By pulling only the liberal aspects of this country away from the rest, you're not intending true democracy or to hear the thoughts and opinions of those who oppose you, but only those who agree with you, to create some perfect liberal haven?

Since part of the problem is that democracy often turns into little more than two wolves and a sheep voting on who is for dinner, and given that the chances of winding the reach of government waaaaay back to protect whoever the sheep might be in this particular electoral cycle, there is perhaps some merit in looking to form a "liberal haven" or "conservative haven" so you're not subjected to being ruled by people you can't agree with.

In a nation where nearly 50% of voters voted against whoever is in power (and sometimes it's more than 50% in nations that aren't strictly democracies in the truest sense of the word) it makes sense to roll back the reach of government for the benefit of everyone. Sadly what usually happens is that people cheer Their Guy when he's in power even if he is overreaching what he should be doing, then complain when The Other Guy gets in and does the exact same thing.

 

[Saucy]

I think there would be big benefits in taking independent candidates more seriously. Some of the greatest grass roots campaign have come from center. I'm personally more of a Ron Paul conservative. Bernie should've been the democratic candidate and would've been better than Hillary by a long shot.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I rather like the idea of Canada

Me too and I am already a Canadian citizen

 

[IACOBVS]

Not how things are done in the USA...

My Australian friend, what IS this obsession and this hatred you have for the president of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? It's not your country, he's not your president, he's not your concern. And no one in the USA is subject to what one Australian may think or feel or suggest. NO ONE here is go on and on, with thread after thread, about how the PM and the Queen of Australia were not chosen by majority popular vote of the Australians, no non-Australian is going on and on, with thread after thread, about YOUR Prime Minister or Queen and whether they should or should not be serving in their respective offices. Curious. Very curious. Oh, well.....

In the 241 years of the USA, there have been two cases of impeachment with one of them resulting in removal from office.



- Josiah (a citizen of the USA, a resident of the USA, a registered voter in the USA)

Until the US learns to stop trying to manipulate the rest of the world, Trump or any other US president is the concern of everyone who lives on this planet.

 

[IACOBVS]

You may be a Canadian citizen having a right to an opinion but as time goes on less and less are as optimistic. But do be careful as to what your opinion is because you may be jailed for expressing it inside of these borders.

St Justin is polling higher than he did at the last election, so I don't know where your assertion of less optimism is coming from. And jailed? What is that based upon?

 

[IACOBVS]

Um, the beauty of a true democracy is that sometimes someone gets into power you don't like. This is exactly what happened. By pulling only the liberal aspects of this country away from the rest, you're not intending true democracy or to hear the thoughts and opinions of those who oppose you, but only those who agree with you, to create some perfect liberal haven?

I would love a perfect liberal heaven ... and earth. I will get that when Jesus returns. And in case your forgot, over a million more people voted for Hillary than for the Donald. There was no democracy in the final result.

 

[tango]

I would love a perfect liberal heaven ... and earth. I will get that when Jesus returns. And in case your forgot, over a million more people voted for Hillary than for the Donald. There was no democracy in the final result.

The US isn't a democracy, so that's what you might expect. Hillary won a small share of the counties across the country, she just won the most densely populated areas. More evidence, if it were needed, that scaling down central government and focusing on local government is a good thing.

 

[IACOBVS]

The US isn't a democracy, so that's what you might expect. Hillary won a small share of the counties across the country, she just won the most densely populated areas. More evidence, if it were needed, that scaling down central government and focusing on local government is a good thing.

It doesn't matter how many counties she won. She won a YUGE number of more votes than the Trump ... over a million more.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It doesn't matter how many counties she won. She won a YUGE number of more votes than the Trump ... over a million more.

3 mill

 

[Josiah]

It doesn't matter how many counties she won. She won a YUGE number of more votes than the Trump ... over a million more.

Totally irrelevant.....

For approaching 250 years, the USA has chosen our president via the Elector College. FULLY accepting this and fully understanding this, both Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump ran their campaigns solely, only to win the ELECTOR COLLEGE vote, no candidate for president in American history has ran a campaign designed to win the popular vote regardless of how the elector college would therefore vote - none has been SO incredibly stupid or ignorant to do that, EVERY SINGLE ONE has run to win the only vote that matters - that of the electoral college. It's the ONLY vote that matters - which EVERY candidate in American history has realized (and every voter who remembers their 8th grade civics class). Yup, It's why there was virtually no campaign in California last year - the Dem would win here if such was Satan Incarnate, and it just doesn't matter by how much since the one who got the most votes got ALL the elector votes..... it's also why no one bothered to campaign in Alaska or other states with too few electors to bother with.

Now.... there are SOME Americans who think our Constitution should be amended to eliminate the elector college and chose our president by majority popular vote. But NONE have ever tried to actually do that. Three times a candidate has won the popular vote but not the electoral vote - and NONE of them did a THING to change our constitution and method of electing our president. NO political party has attempted to do so - not ever. Yes, the margin of this was bigger this third time than the previous two, but NO ONE has done ANYTHING to even attempt to change the constitution on this point: the Democrat Party likes how we do it now (although it meant Hilary Clinton and Al Gore thus lost), the Republican Party likes it the way we do it now. You'd think big states like California and Texas would support a change..... and small states like Alaska and Utah would fight it, but in reality, NO STATE has EVER done ANYTHING to bring out some change in the US Constitution. Fact is: All that states and all the political parties and all the candidates LIKE the way we do it and support it. It's not going to change anytime soon. What is, is.

And unless a candidate is STUPID or IGNORANT, they accept that what is is..... operate their campaign accordingly..... and accept the results. Just as Al Gore and Hilary Clinton did. Going on to SUPPORT this process (which meant they lost) and to reject any calls to change our constitution.




- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Impeaching Donald ought to be the USA national pastime

 

[hotrhymez]

Impeaching Donald ought to be the USA national pastime

Nope, sorry. That's baseball.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nope, sorry. That's baseball.

baseball is boring compared to a good impeachment process!

:smirk:

 

[tango]

It doesn't matter how many counties she won. She won a YUGE number of more votes than the Trump ... over a million more.

Actually it does, because it shows the electoral college is doing exactly what the electoral college is supposed to do, namely protecting the populations of the less densely populated central areas from being overruled by a few major cities.

It's also evidence, as I stated, that more central government is a bad thing, for that very reason. When cities tend to vote Democrat and rural areas tend to vote Republican it's clearly a suboptimal situation for one to be overruled by the other, regardless of relative populations. If cities want Democrat rule let them have Democrat rule; if rural areas want Republican rule let them have Republican rule. But it's silly for cities that wanted Democrat rule to be stuck with Republican rule, and it's still for small towns that wanted Republican rule to be stuck with Democrat rule, simply because the balance shifted in some totally unrelated area.

If central government is gradually unwound as far as possible and power transferred to the states then if you want to live under more liberal rule you are free to move to California; if you want to live under more conservative rule you are free to move to Texas. It might also overcome a lot of the silliness with celebrities jostling for the limelight making grandiose claims that they'll move to Canada if the wrong candidate is elected, only to quietly forget their great fanfare when it actually happens.