The Triune God.

[Andrew]

Take another look at the Athanasian Creed if you want a good statement of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Yes but the bible says that Jesus is the way to the father and that Jesus is the Godhead, accepting Jesus is automatically accepting the one who sent him, the Father. The important thing to remember is that Jesus came in the flesh to redeem mankind, the flesh is sin and he became sin who knew no sin, but we must experience the rebirth and live holy lives in the same Spirit that Jesus had and the same spirit that is God, that Holy spirit should abide and dwell in our bodies.
We should be like Jesus (Spirit of God in the flesh) he is the Godhead, he is the only way.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Okay well I did hear a Catholic one time say that the trinity is like water ice and vaper all being the same element

Yes, people use analogies but they all fail to do justice to the doctrine. In a way they are a bad idea. Best to stick with the Athanasian Creed. It is not hard to understand. But like many things about God it is hard to grasp and believe because we're not God and his "existence" is always going to be something of a mystery to us because we are created and he is not..

 

[Albion]

Yes but the bible says that Jesus is the way to the father and that Jesus is the Godhead, accepting Jesus is automatically accepting the one who sent him, the Father.

Jesus is OUR way to the Father. Of course. We understand that.

But I don't know any verse that says that Jesus 'is the Godhead.' God, yes, but not Godhead.

 

[Andrew]

Jesus is OUR way to the Father. Of course. We understand that.

But I don't know any verse that says that Jesus 'is the Godhead.' God, yes, but not Godhead.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:8-9

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes but the bible says that Jesus is the way to the father and that Jesus is the Godhead, accepting Jesus is automatically accepting the one who sent him, the Father. The important thing to remember is that Jesus came in the flesh to redeem mankind, the flesh is sin and he became sin who knew no sin, but we must experience the rebirth and live holy lives in the same Spirit that Jesus had and the same spirit that is God, that Holy spirit should abide and dwell in our bodies.
We should be like Jesus (Spirit of God in the flesh) he is the Godhead, he is the only way.

Human flesh is not sin. Adam and Eve were created with flesh and knew no sin until the Devil tempted Eve and she followed his lead. Equating matter, the flesh and so forth, with sin is Gnostic thinking not Christian thinking.

 

[Albion]

Yes, people use analogies but they all fail to do justice to the doctrine. In a way they are a bad idea. Best to stick with the Athanasian Creed. It is not hard to understand. But like many things about God it is hard to grasp and believe because we're not God and his "existence" is always going to be something of a mystery to us because we are created and he is not..

I think this is a good idea, DH. It will not win you over by arguing details, BUT it will should be able to do something that I have noticed in your posts as a problem.

I'm speaking of getting clear what the Trinitarian belief actually is...or calls for you to accept.

Whether or not you agree with Trinitarian belief, you want to know what constitutes that belief. As you recall, you have several times said, in effect "Then that means ___" after one of our explanations, only to be told that what you thought was being said by us is not just what you thought after all.

The Athanasian Creed does lay it out for the reader along with a number of similar ideas that are rejected. I think you will find it interesting.

 

[Andrew]

Human flesh is not sin. Adam and Eve were created with flesh and knew no sin until the Devil tempted Eve and she followed his lead. Equating matter, the flesh and so forth, with sin is Gnostic thinking not Christian thinking.

Okay, flesh is sinful then. No one is sinless and sin dwells in the flesh until you receive the Holy Spirit to control the fleshy desires and walk with Christ.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

 

[Albion]

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:8-9

Ah. But that doesn't mean that he is the Godhead (that is to say, all the persons of the Trinity together).

What it is saying is that all the fullness of God is present in Jesus. He's not just some divine offshoot or demigod, a lesser deity, or something like that. It was necessary to teach this to the people who were first hearing of the Savior because many of them naturally were having a hard time grasping that Jesus was Man, a real Man, but also fully God. It was a lot easier for many of them to think he was sent by God but was something more like an angel in human form or a prophet who had a special knowledge OF God.

 

[Imalive]

Yes but the bible says that Jesus is the way to the father and that Jesus is the Godhead, accepting Jesus is automatically accepting the one who sent him, the Father. The important thing to remember is that Jesus came in the flesh to redeem mankind, the flesh is sin and he became sin who knew no sin, but we must experience the rebirth and live holy lives in the same Spirit that Jesus had and the same spirit that is God, that Holy spirit should abide and dwell in our bodies.
We should be like Jesus (Spirit of God in the flesh) he is the Godhead, he is the only way.

Not only the Holy Spirit. I have been to churches where they said: the Holy Spirit is on earth, Jesus and the Father are in heaven, but in John Jesus says He and the Father and the Holy Spirit would live in us. To be honest, I've never noticed the difference.

 

[Andrew]

Not only the Holy Spirit. I have been to churches where they said: the Holy Spirit is on earth, Jesus and the Father are in heaven, but in John Jesus says He and the Father and the Holy Spirit would live in us. To be honest, I've never noticed the difference.

Well let this be an answer for Albion who highlighted "that IN him is the fullness of Godhead bodily"

 

[Albion]

But IN HIM wasn't the real problem. It was thinking that Jesus WAS HIMSELF all the persons of the Trinity rolled into one. That is what saying Jesus is the Godhead would imply.

And the line, as you originally quoted it, is IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULLNESS, not IN HIM IS THE FULLNESS.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Okay, flesh is sinful then.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. Jesus had flesh and did not sin. For our sake God made Jesus Christ to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Jesus Christ we might become the righteousness of God.

No one is sinless and sin dwells in the flesh until you receive the Holy Spirit to control the fleshy desires and walk with Christ.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

 

[Imalive]

Flesh tends to sin. Even Jesus was tempted because He had flesh and He (His human nature) didn't want to die.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Flesh tends to sin. Even Jesus was tempted because He had flesh and He (His human nature) didn't want to die.

Jesus did not sin. That is a fact.

 

[psalms 91]

Jesus did not sin. That is a fact.

Did not sin but was tempted, as in the wilderness or as she said in the garden

 

[Lamb]

He was tempted but never gave into temptation which is something that at times we could do but we cannot succeed 100% of the time as Jesus did. Jesus is God so of course he would never give into temptation.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Did not sin but was tempted, as in the wilderness or as she said in the garden

Temptation is not sin. In Jesus' case "tempted in every like we are" need be taken to mean no more than that Jesus was exposed to the same external conditions that we are and did not sin. ... For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

 

[psalms 91]

Temptation is not sin. In Jesus' case "tempted in every like we are" need be taken to mean no more than that Jesus was exposed to the same external conditions that we are and did not sin. ... For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Agreed I think I said did not sin

 

[Andrew]

Gods manifestation is biblical

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

 

[MennoSota]

Gods manifestation is biblical

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

1 Timothy 3
[16]Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body *** and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels *** and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world *** and taken to heaven in glory.

Yes, God shed his glory to be made in the likeness of man. God the Son is fully God and fully man.

What does that have to do with your rejection of the Triune God?