Salvation

[Lamb]

We are talking about garbage and dung coming out of your mouth
And from your mouth onto the printed pages of this discussion...

You injected this poison onto this discussion...
You are refusing moderation rebuke...
You continue to use the words garbage and dung in castigating others...

I am simply calling you out on your spoiled bully-brat behavior...
I have been banned on other forums for doing this...
When moderators will not enforce civil behavior...

You need to man up, and not be a potty mouthed little name-calling brat...
This is a place where adults want to discuss theology...

Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios

Yikes. I know you don't want him to insult anyone but did you realize you flamed him in your post? "spoiled bully-brat behavior" "potty mouthed little name-calling brat"

 

[RichWh1]

Christians are not like Muslims because Christians do not believe that the holy scriptures descended from heaven to be recited by an angel in the hearing of a scribe who wrote as he heard nor do Christians believe that the holy scriptures are a perfect book of everlasting value preserved in their original manuscript in the heavens. So when you look for things that are not man made you're looking in the wrong place if you look to the holy scriptures. As the scriptures say of themselves 2Peter 1:20 Know this well: no prophecy of Scripture can be handed over to private interpretation, 21 since no prophecy comes from human decision, for it was men of God, moved by the Holy Spirit, who spoke.

Salvation was based on grace through faith before the NT had a Roman Catholic Church! So it should still be based on the Bible not man!

Men were inspired yes! Men did not determine doctrines!!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Salvation was based on grace through faith before the NT had a Roman Catholic Church! So it should still be based on the Bible not man!

Men were inspired yes! Men did not determine doctrines!!

Salvation was and is not based on the bible it always is and always was by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Yet the holy scriptures are so important that no Christian can safely reject them nor treat them as worthless traditions.

 

[RichWh1]

Salvation was and is not based on the bible it always is and always was by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Yet the holy scriptures are so important that no Christian can safely reject them nor treat them as worthless traditions.

What about the OT? Genesis 15 "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness ". Salvation in the Old Testament

 

[MoreCoffee]

What about the OT? Genesis 15 "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness ". Salvation in the Old Testament

Abraham too was saved by Jesus Christ. Genesis chapter three explains the matter. The promised "seed" is Jesus Christ.

 

[RichWh1]

Abraham too was saved by Jesus Christ. Genesis chapter three explains the matter. The promised "seed" is Jesus Christ.

All salvation is through Christ (Messiah) who is eternal.

 

[MoreCoffee]

All salvation is through Christ (Messiah) who is eternal.

Yes, that is the truth, all salvation is in Jesus Christ and the Word is eternal.

So salvation was and is not based on the bible it always is and always was by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Yet the holy scriptures are so important that no Christian can safely reject them nor treat them as worthless traditions.

 

[RichWh1]

Yes, that is the truth, all salvation is in Jesus Christ and the Word is eternal.

So salvation was and is not based on the bible it always is and always was by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Yet the holy scriptures are so important that no Christian can safely reject them nor treat them as worthless traditions.

Why do you think the Bible was put down on papyrus? Was it not so others who had not heard the Word of God could believe and be saved?
Answer is obvious.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why do you think the Bible was put down on papyrus? Was it not so others who had not heard the Word of God could believe and be saved?
Answer is obvious.

The holy scriptures themselves explain why they were written. 2Timothy 3:14 As for you, continue with what you have learned, and what has been entrusted to you, knowing from whom you received it. 15 Besides, you have known the Scriptures from childhood; they will give you the wisdom that leads to salvation, through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God, and is useful for teaching, refuting error, for correcting and training in Christian life. 17 Through Scripture, the man of God is made expert and thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[RichWh1]

So we agree that Scripture was given to lead one to salvation.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So we agree that Scripture was given to lead one to salvation.

That is not what is written in the passage. It says

2Timothy 3:14 As for you, continue with what you have learned, and what has been entrusted to you, knowing from whom you received it. 15 Besides, you have known the Scriptures from childhood; they will give you the wisdom that leads to salvation, through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God, and is useful for teaching, refuting error, for correcting and training in Christian life. 17 Through Scripture, the man of God is made expert and thoroughly equipped for every good work.​

The holy scriptures are useful for teaching, refuting error, for correcting and training in Christian life. It is preaching and hearing the word of Christ that is instrumental in saving souls. The word of Christ is what Jesus Christ taught. The holy scriptures record much of what Jesus taught but not all of it. Nevertheless the holy scriptures are inspired by God, and is useful for teaching, refuting error, for correcting and training in Christian life.

Romans 10:14 But how can they call upon the name of the Lord without having believed in him? And how can they believe in him, without having first heard about him? And how will they hear about him, if no one preaches about him? 15 And how will they preach about him, if no one sends them? As Scripture says: How beautiful are the feet of the messenger of good news. 16 Although, not everyone obeyed the good news, as Isaiah said: Lord, who has believed in our preaching? 17 So, faith comes from preaching, and preaching is rooted in the word of Christ​

 

[RichWh1]

Scripture also says that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ (the spoken word) Gk rhema

 

[MoreCoffee]

Scripture also says that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ (the spoken word) Gk rhema

Yes, you are right. That passage was in my previous post.

Romans 10:14 But how can they call upon the name of the Lord without having believed in him? And how can they believe in him, without having first heard about him? And how will they hear about him, if no one preaches about him? 15 And how will they preach about him, if no one sends them? As Scripture says: How beautiful are the feet of the messenger of good news. 16 Although, not everyone obeyed the good news, as Isaiah said: Lord, who has believed in our preaching? 17 So, faith comes from preaching, and preaching is rooted in the word of Christ

The passage in Greek says "ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ." and you are right the word "ῥήματος" (Rematos) does mean a spoken (preached) word. Logos also means a spoken word.

 

[RichWh1]

Yes, you are right. That passage was in my previous post.

Romans 10:14 But how can they call upon the name of the Lord without having believed in him? And how can they believe in him, without having first heard about him? And how will they hear about him, if no one preaches about him? 15 And how will they preach about him, if no one sends them? As Scripture says: How beautiful are the feet of the messenger of good news. 16 Although, not everyone obeyed the good news, as Isaiah said: Lord, who has believed in our preaching? 17 So, faith comes from preaching, and preaching is rooted in the word of Christ

The passage in Greek says "ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ." and you are right the word "ῥήματος" (Rematos) does mean a spoken (preached) word. Logos also means a spoken word.

Logos is the Living Word and when John wrote his gospel he knew the significance of the term 'Logos'

The Rhema is the spoken word

You said it: that faith comes by preaching the words of Christ.

The written word cannot save us. Only the spoken word.

That is what Paul wrote and it's what he meant.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Logos is the Living Word and when John wrote his gospel he knew the significance of the term 'Logos'

The Rhema is the spoken word

You said it: that faith comes by preaching the words of Christ.

The written word cannot save us. Only the spoken word.

That is what Paul wrote and it's what he meant.

Yes, that is fairly close to the truth but the preaching can be by means of writing too. A deaf person may need to read a sermon to understand it and saint Paul wrote many letters with the intention of instructing in righteousness. So let's not abandon the idea that written things are useful too. But for most people in most circumstances it is the preached word of Christ that draws a person into repentance and faith.

 

[MennoSota]

We are talking about garbage and dung coming out of your mouth
And from your mouth onto the printed pages of this discussion...

You injected this poison onto this discussion...
You are refusing moderation rebuke...
You continue to use the words garbage and dung in castigating others...

I am simply calling you out on your spoiled bully-brat behavior...
I have been banned on other forums for doing this...
When moderators will not enforce civil behavior...

You need to man up, and not be a potty mouthed little name-calling brat...
This is a place where adults want to discuss theology...

Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios

You're wrong. I specifically point to the RC in this thread.
It offends you that I find the RC and EO to be biblically inaccurate and presenting teachings that hinder grace. I get that. You may not be able to separate the Bible from your churches dogma.

 

[MennoSota]

Yikes. I know you don't want him to insult anyone but did you realize you flamed him in your post? "spoiled bully-brat behavior" "potty mouthed little name-calling brat"

I can take it. Clearly I offended Arsenios by attacking the RC as presenting dung from their teachings. I have addressed the catechism and where it is in error. Arsenios anger doesn't bother me.

 

[MennoSota]

Salvation has always been provided by God's gracious, unmerited favor. Not one person has ever done anything to merit God's favor.
God spoke to us through the Holy scriptures to tell us of his redemption.
The law is perfect. It perfectly shows us that we will never and can never merit any favor from God. It shows us that we merit God's eternal damnation and judgment in hell. It lets us know in no uncertain terms that we have fallen woefully short and died in our trespasses and sins.
But, God graciously gives life and eternal pardon to those whom He wills. He redeems us because He chooses to do so...despite our corruption and rebellion. Nothing is required of us as a prerequisite to God extending us His gracious, unmerited favor. Why is this so? Because the law shows us we can never do anything to merit God's gracious, unmerited favor. We are entirely at God’s mercy to save us or to cast us into hell.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Salvation has always been provided by God's gracious, unmerited favor. Not one person has ever done anything to merit God's favor.
God spoke to us through the Holy scriptures to tell us of his redemption.
The law is perfect. It perfectly shows us that we will never and can never merit any favor from God. It shows us that we merit God's eternal damnation and judgment in hell. It lets us know in no uncertain terms that we have fallen woefully short and died in our trespasses and sins.
But, God graciously gives life and eternal pardon to those whom He wills. He redeems us because He chooses to do so...despite our corruption and rebellion. Nothing is required of us as a prerequisite to God extending us His gracious, unmerited favor. Why is this so? Because the law shows us we can never do anything to merit God's gracious, unmerited favor. We are entirely at God’s mercy to save us or to cast us into hell.

Abram believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

 

[MennoSota]

Abram believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Indeed, Abram believed because God chose him. God could have chosen any of the myriad of people around the world, but He chose Abram.
Was Abram righteous by his own works? Hardly. Abram let fear guide him when he lied about Sarah not being his wife. He also let fear of no children lead him to be sexually active with Hagar.
Yet, despite Abram being a sinner, God chose Abram and came as the Redeemer through Abraham's offspring.
Abraham can thank God for giving him the gift of faith...just as God gives the gift of faith to everyone He redeems.