PERFECT LOVE

YourTruthGod

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In the old law, there was NO animal sacrifice for murder.

The punishment for murder was death.

Arsenios said the chief priests didn't have him kill a pigeon or a fatted calf and offer it to the Temple

Not even a turtle-dove... Not a drop of water for his soul...

They totally disowned him...


Again, in the old law, there was NO sacrifice for the shedding of blood, only that the person who did it to be put to death.
 

Arsenios

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You are wrong about it not being in the scriptures.

Good grief, how can you say it is not in the scriptures?

You are not speaking truth about me when you say what I said is not in the scriptures.

Tell us all right now what is the punishment from the chief priests for the shedding of innocent blood?

IT IS DEATH.

What did Judas CONFESS TO THE CHIEF PRIESTS?

He confessed to shedding of innocent blood!

Then they told Judas, "See thou to that."

You, my friend, did a betrayal to me saying I speak of what is not in the scriptures.

You don't even know that there WAS NO OFFERING to be GIVEN FOR THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD!

Do you not understand that?

There was no offering under the old law to give for the shedding of innocent blood.

You all who think you are so fancy in the Lord with your looking to the Greek language is further from the truth, as is evident.

That the punishment for betraying innocent blood is death is in Scripture...

That this punishment motivated Judas Iscariot is NOT in the Scriptures...

Nor in any other contemporary writing of which I am aware...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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In the old law, there was NO animal sacrifice for murder.

The punishment for murder was death.

Arsenios said the chief priests didn't have him kill a pigeon or a fatted calf and offer it to the Temple

Not even a turtle-dove... Not a drop of water for his soul...

They totally disowned him...


Again, in the old law, there was NO sacrifice for the shedding of blood, only that the person who did it to be put to death.

So instead of punishing him by death, they disowned him...

Their reply to him was dismissive: "What to us?"

"YOU will see to yourself."

The import was: "What do we care? You are on your own..."

There is no evidence that he thought within himself: "I have transgressed the Law and need to sentence myself to death."

And besides, suicide is not the punishment for one transgressing the Law that exacts execution as its punishment for transgression...

And besides that, suicide is not repentance...

Nor does the Law prescribe suicide for such a transgression...

Nor for failure of the Law to execute the offender...


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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That the punishment for betraying innocent blood is death is in Scripture...

That this punishment motivated Judas Iscariot is NOT in the Scriptures...

Nor in any other contemporary writing of which I am aware...


Arsenios

You are speaking nonsense.

You said the chief priests did not tell him to offer an animal.

There is NO REASON they would since there is no such offering for the shedding of innocent blood, which JUDAS DID.
 

YourTruthGod

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So instead of punishing him by death, they disowned him...

Their reply to him was dismissive: "What to us?"

"YOU will see to yourself."

The import was: "What do we care? You are on your own..."

There is no evidence that he thought within himself: "I have transgressed the Law and need to sentence myself to death."
Oh be quiet. He went to the chief priests and elders! He confessed to THEM that he shed innocent blood.

And besides, suicide is not the punishment for one transgressing the Law that exacts execution as its punishment for transgression...
What you say is so ignorant.

The chief priests and elders wanted Jesus dead, so they are not going to put Judas to death as was required by law!
And besides that, suicide is not repentance...


Arsenios

His remorse and confession and returning the money is.
 

Arsenios

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In the old law, there was NO animal sacrifice for murder.

Again, in the old law, there was NO sacrifice for the shedding of blood,

only that the person who did it to be put to death.

You are right...

My only point was that they gave him nothing...

He came and confessed his sin...

They turned their backs on him...

Him whom they had rewarded...


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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You are right...

My only point was that they gave him nothing...

He came and confessed his sin...

They turned their backs on him...

Him whom they had rewarded...


Arsenios

They couldn't because they wanted Jesus dead!
 

Arsenios

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Oh be quiet.

Don't you want a conversation about this?

He went to the chief priests and elders! He confessed to THEM that he shed innocent blood.

And they turned their backs on him...

What you say is so ignorant.

No one has ever accused me of being the sharpest tool in the box...

The chief priests and elders wanted Jesus dead, so they are not going to put Judas to death as was required by law!

So the Law failed him, and he committed suicide...

They would not even exonerate him...

His remorse and confession and returning the money is (repentance).

And it led him not to Christ but to suicide...

So if you commit a murder in a state that executes murderers...
And the state to whom you confess this crime will not prosecute you...
You cannot follow the example of Judas and kill yourself...
You cannot repent and kill yourself, yes?
You must then live the rest of your life...
In the Service of the Lord in repentance...
And pray for His forgiveness of your offense...

You must follow the example of David...
Not that of Judas...
Take responsibility...
Don't commit suicide...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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They couldn't because they wanted Jesus dead!


They WOULDN'T for that very reason...

They instead sentenced him to himself...

And he killed himself...

So it all worked out from their point of view...

The Law was effected with no blame to themselves...

They might have even congratulated each other for his death...

But from the point of view of Christian Confession and Repentance...

Follow David and Peter, not Judas, with one's very serious sins...


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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Don't you want a conversation about this?



And they turned their backs on him...



No one has ever accused me of being the sharpest tool in the box...



So the Law failed him, and he committed suicide...

They would not even exonerate him...



And it led him not to Christ but to suicide...

So if you commit a murder in a state that executes murderers...
And the state to whom you confess this crime will not prosecute you...
You cannot follow the example of Judas and kill yourself...
You cannot repent and kill yourself, yes?
You must then live the rest of your life...
In the Service of the Lord in repentance...
And pray for His forgiveness of your offense...

You must follow the example of David...
Not that of Judas...
Take responsibility...
Don't commit suicide...


Arsenios

The old law exonerate a professed murderer?

Give me the scripture for that.

And, of course, ask God for forgiveness.

However, Jesus said better that he was never born.

Think about that for a while and tell me what you would do if Jesus said that to you about you.
 

MoreCoffee

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The old law exonerate a professed murderer?

Give me the scripture for that.

And, of course, ask God for forgiveness.

However, Jesus said better that he was never born.

Think about that for a while and tell me what you would do if Jesus said that to you about you.

Jesus said that about everyone who hinders infants from coming to Christ. Better they a millstone were tied around their neck and they be cast into the sea. Better that they never be born. Isn't it odd the the saviour would say such harsh things about people ... especially if it was meant literally.
 

atpollard

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Did Judas “repent”?

Sparing you all anything from Strongs, here are all the verses that use some form of the exact same word that says Judas “repented” or “regretted” so you can decide if it means what we call Christian Repentance:

[Mat 21:29, 32 NASB] 29 "And he answered, 'I will not'; but afterward he regretted it and went. ... 32 "For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing [this,] did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.

[Mat 27:3 NASB] 3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

[2Co 7:8 NASB] 8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it--[for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while--

[Heb 7:21 NASB] 21 (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, "THE LORD HAS SWORN AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND, 'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");


And here are the verses that use a different Greek word, the word commonly translated as “repent” as we know it:

[Mat 3:2 NASB] 2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

[Mat 4:17 NASB] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

[Mat 11:20-21 NASB] 20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. 21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

[Mat 12:41 NASB] 41 "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

[Mar 1:15 NASB] 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

[Mar 6:12 NASB] 12 They went out and preached that [men] should repent.

[Luk 10:13 NASB] 13 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

[Luk 11:32 NASB] 32 "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

[Luk 13:3, 5 NASB] 3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. ... 5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

[Luk 15:7, 10 NASB] 7 "I tell you that in the same way, there will be [more] joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. ... 10 "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

[Luk 16:30 NASB] 30 "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'

[Luk 17:3-4 NASB] 3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."

[Act 2:38 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[Act 3:19 NASB] 19 "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

[Act 8:22 NASB] 22 "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.

[Act 17:30 NASB] 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all [people] everywhere should repent,

[Act 26:20 NASB] 20 but [kept] declaring both to those of Damascus first, and [also] at Jerusalem and [then] throughout all the region of Judea, and [even] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

[2Co 12:21 NASB] 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.

[Rev 2:5, 16, 21-22 NASB] 5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place--unless you repent. ... 16 'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth. ... 21 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 'Behold, I will throw her on a bed [of sickness,] and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.

[Rev 3:3, 19 NASB] 3 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep [it,] and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. ... 19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

[Rev 9:20-21 NASB] 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; 21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.

[Rev 16:9, 11 NASB] 9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory. ... 11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.
 

YourTruthGod

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Jesus said that about everyone who hinders infants from coming to Christ. Better they a millstone were tied around their neck and they be cast into the sea. Better that they never be born. Isn't it odd the the saviour would say such harsh things about people ... especially if it was meant literally.

So that is your non answer to my question?
 

FredVB

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If you hate some people
and some you neither love not hate,
while others you love only moderately
and still others you love very much,
know from this inequality
that you are far from perfect love,
which lays down
that you must love everyone equally.

St. Maximos the Confessor

Or as Paul writes:

1Co 4:12
Being reviled, we bless...

Or as Christ said:

"Love your enemies"

Mat 5:44

But I say unto you,
Love your enemies,
bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you;


Do you love your enemies?

Is love an action or a feeling?

Arsenios

None of us in this world are in the position to say we love perfectly. God loves all his creatures. It would be right if we do so. But God has no limit to loving. We limit our love. Would you do the same with love to any that you meet, as any other in your life? And most among us generally, if not the least bit racist or sexist or privileged elitist are speciesist.
 
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