Justification - Part 2

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Josiah

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As you say "We do good works". That is the point. We do them. Not somebody else.


The "WE" is CHRISTIANS. Those to whom have been GIVEN by God the divine GIFTS of life/faith/Holy Spirit/justification.

See post 53, 54 and 56




.
 

MennoSota

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As you say "We do good works". That is the point. We do them. Not somebody else.
Just like an engine and drive train move the car...but it still takes the fuel ignited by the switch of the ignition to make the motor function.
Jesus turns the key and fuels the engine. Without Jesus...the engine doesn't run.
MC, you are placing way too much emphasis on your self. You're just the vessel God created to do His good work. Don't lift your self up above its status.
 

Arsenios

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The People of God were enslaved in Egypt...
They were saved through water via the Red Sea crossing...
They wandered in the Wilderness finally arriving at the Promised Land...
They crossed the Waters of the Jordan River in order to enter the Promised Land...
Once in the Promised Land, they had to fight the Giants with Goliath...
Christ was Baptized in the Jordan River...
He then went into the Desert for 40 days of fasting...
And He then overcame Satan's temptations...
The Gospels open with John Baptizing in the Jordan...
The Gospel of Repentance is the Gospel of Christ...
There is no Gospel of Justification in the Bible...
Salvation begins with repentance, not with Justification...
How can anyone proclaim the Gospel of Justification?
A false "gospel" that does not exist in the Bible...
There IS Justificaiton by God...
It is NOT the Gospel of Christ...
The Gospel of Christ is the Gospel of Repentance...
Nor does any Gospel of Justification exist in the 2000 year history of the Apostolic Church...

Arsenios
 

Lamb

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The People of God were enslaved in Egypt...
They were saved through water via the Red Sea crossing...
They wandered in the Wilderness finally arriving at the Promised Land...
They crossed the Waters of the Jordan River in order to enter the Promised Land...
Once in the Promised Land, they had to fight the Giants with Goliath...
Christ was Baptized in the Jordan River...
He then went into the Desert for 40 days of fasting...
And He then overcame Satan's temptations...
The Gospels open with John Baptizing in the Jordan...
The Gospel of Repentance is the Gospel of Christ...
There is no Gospel of Justification in the Bible...
Salvation begins with repentance, not with Justification...
How can anyone proclaim the Gospel of Justification?
A false "gospel" that does not exist in the Bible...
There IS Justificaiton by God...
It is NOT the Gospel of Christ...
The Gospel of Christ is the Gospel of Repentance...
Nor does any Gospel of Justification exist in the 2000 year history of the Apostolic Church...

Arsenios

The Gospel is the Good News that we have a Savior who died for our sins. We are redeemed by His blood, not what we do.
 

Arsenios

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The Gospel is the Good News that we have a Savior who died for our sins. We are redeemed by His blood, not what we do.

There is no Gospel of Justification in the Bible...
There is the Gospel of Repentance...

Luke 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Christ's own words...

He came to call the UN-RIGHTEOUS to REPENTANCE...

And He JUSTIFIES repentant sinners...

He does NOT Justify unrepentant sinners...

He did not come to call the Righteous-Justified to repentance...


Arsenios
 

Lamb

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Luke 5:32 (NLT) I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.” ..

Only believers would know that they are sinners and need the one true God. Non-believers don't care about God because they don't believe in Him.

We are all sinners...even Christians still sin and need to daily repent. But it's Jesus' death on the cross that is our Justification. It's Jesus' death on the cross that is our forgiveness of sins. It's Jesus' death on the cross that is our redemption. It is Jesus' death on the cross that is our salvation. We don't contribute to His works because He doesn't need our help. Don't skip the cross to look at yourself and then stay in despair because you haven't done enough good works...it will not get you to heaven. Turn to the truth of the Good News that Jesus is your redeemer who died for the forgiveness of your sins.

And unrepentant sinners...those are unbelievers, right? Of course they don't receive salvation if they reject the Savior.
 

MennoSota

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The People of God were enslaved in Egypt...
They were saved through water via the Red Sea crossing...
They wandered in the Wilderness finally arriving at the Promised Land...
They crossed the Waters of the Jordan River in order to enter the Promised Land...
Once in the Promised Land, they had to fight the Giants with Goliath...
Christ was Baptized in the Jordan River...
He then went into the Desert for 40 days of fasting...
And He then overcame Satan's temptations...
The Gospels open with John Baptizing in the Jordan...
The Gospel of Repentance is the Gospel of Christ...
There is no Gospel of Justification in the Bible...
Salvation begins with repentance, not with Justification...
How can anyone proclaim the Gospel of Justification?
A false "gospel" that does not exist in the Bible...
There IS Justificaiton by God...
It is NOT the Gospel of Christ...
The Gospel of Christ is the Gospel of Repentance...
Nor does any Gospel of Justification exist in the 2000 year history of the Apostolic Church...

Arsenios

Salvation begins with God.
God went before Moses as he addressed Pharoah.
God went before Israel as God parted the Red Sea.
God went before Joshua as Israel entered the promised land.
God went before David when David ran toward Goliath.
God the Father went before God the Son and the Son did what the Father directed.
There is no gospel of repentance. There is only the gospel of reconciliation brought about by God going before us at the cross and atoning for our sins.
Because of that reconciliation we are justified before God.
God and God alone, Arsenios. Shame on you for making it all about your self and your efforts at repentance. You are dreadfully in error.
 

MoreCoffee

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Luke 5:27 After this, Jesus went out, and noticing a tax collector named Levi, sitting in the tax-office, he said to him, “Follow me!” 28 So Levi, leaving everything, got up and followed Jesus.

29 Levi gave a great feast for Jesus, and many tax collectors came to his house, and took their places at the table with the other people. 30 Then the Pharisees and their followers complained to Jesus’ disciples, “How is it, that you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31 But Jesus spoke up, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor, but sick people do. 32 I have not come to call the just, but sinners, to a change of heart.”

33 Some people asked him, “The disciples of John fast often and say long prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees. Why is it, that your disciples eat and drink?” Then Jesus said to them, 34 “You can’t make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them. 35 But later, the bridegroom will be taken from them; and they will fast in those days.”

36 Jesus also told them this parable: “No one tears a piece from a new coat to put it on an old one; otherwise the new coat will be torn, and the piece taken from the new coat will not match the old coat. 37 No one puts new wine into old wine skins; otherwise the new wine will burst the skins and be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed as well. 38 But new wine must be put into fresh skins. 39 Yet, no one who has tasted old wine is eager to drink new wine, but says, ‘The old is good.’”


What's the lesson? Jesus chose to associate with people considered lowly by the powerful and religious and to call these lowly people to repentance. He called them to a change of heart and to follow him. They were not passive nor to be passive and even in the matter of fasting, which they did not do while he was with them, he called them to fast when the time came. None of this points to passivity on the part of the faithful. Those called by God are called to good works and faith.
 

Lamb

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Luke 5:27 After this, Jesus went out, and noticing a tax collector named Levi, sitting in the tax-office, he said to him, “Follow me!” 28 So Levi, leaving everything, got up and followed Jesus.

29 Levi gave a great feast for Jesus, and many tax collectors came to his house, and took their places at the table with the other people. 30 Then the Pharisees and their followers complained to Jesus’ disciples, “How is it, that you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31 But Jesus spoke up, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor, but sick people do. 32 I have not come to call the just, but sinners, to a change of heart.”

33 Some people asked him, “The disciples of John fast often and say long prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees. Why is it, that your disciples eat and drink?” Then Jesus said to them, 34 “You can’t make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them. 35 But later, the bridegroom will be taken from them; and they will fast in those days.”

36 Jesus also told them this parable: “No one tears a piece from a new coat to put it on an old one; otherwise the new coat will be torn, and the piece taken from the new coat will not match the old coat. 37 No one puts new wine into old wine skins; otherwise the new wine will burst the skins and be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed as well. 38 But new wine must be put into fresh skins. 39 Yet, no one who has tasted old wine is eager to drink new wine, but says, ‘The old is good.’”


What's the lesson? Jesus chose to associate with people considered lowly by the powerful and religious and to call these lowly people to repentance. He called them to a change of heart and to follow him. They were not passive nor to be passive and even in the matter of fasting, which they did not do while he was with them, he called them to fast when the time came. None of this points to passivity on the part of the faithful. Those called by God are called to good works and faith.

Yes, God does the calling!!!!! He chooses. Glad we got that agreed upon. ;)

The disciples stayed with Jesus, but there were some who walked away (in John 6) because they didn't believe what Jesus was saying. Man isn't responsible for God calling him and giving him faith to believe but man is responsible if he walks away and thus, damns himself.
 

Andrew

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The "WE" is CHRISTIANS. Those to whom have been GIVEN by God the divine GIFTS of life/faith/Holy Spirit/justification.

See post 53, 54 and 56




.
Amen.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
 

Arsenios

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The "WE" is CHRISTIANS.
Those to whom have been GIVEN by God the divine GIFTS of life/faith/Holy Spirit/justification.

How does one know if he or she is one of these?

Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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How does one know if he or she is one of these?

Arsenios

Some, it seems, will say "my baptism". Others will say "I just know!". A few say "I trust God's promises". But almost none offer any significant reason - except maybe baptism.
 

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How does one know if he or she is one of these?

Arsenios

If you have the Savior (the one true one...the one who died for you...the one who forgives you all your sins) you're a Christian.
 

MoreCoffee

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If you have the Savior (the one true one...the one who died for you...the one who forgives you all your sins) you're a Christian.

Your reply does not tell anybody how one knows that one has "the one true" saviour.
 

Lamb

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Your reply does not tell anybody how one knows that one has "the one true" saviour.

The question was How does one know...and I know that I have a Savior so I know I'm a Christian because of that. Now, if you want to change the question to how do others know that someone is a Christian then I'll word things slightly differently...but I'll still include the Savior.
 

MennoSota

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How does one know if he or she is one of these?

Arsenios
It concerns me that you don't know.
Galatians 5 shares with us the flavors that the fruit of the Spirit produces.
 

MoreCoffee

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If you have the Savior (the one true one...the one who died for you...the one who forgives you all your sins) you're a Christian.

Your answer is "I know because I know!" which is no reason at all it's just an assertion. Self confidant it is but not reasoned and explained. Self confidence is not a virtue ever mentioned as a virtue in the holy scriptures though in the rampant individualism so common in some lands being self confident is seen as the greatest of all virtues like self love was once called the greatest love of all in a song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYzlVDlE72w
 

Lamb

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Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

MoreCoffee

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Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

But does that verse (Romans 8:38) mention you or are you self confidently asserting that it does?
 

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But does that verse (Romans 8:38) mention you or are you self confidently asserting that it does?

I wouldn't have trusted in the Savior if it weren't for God revealing Him to me. So, whether you think the verse applies to me or not, I have a Savior. Paul had confidence in the Savior and not himself or his works. It's not wrong to be the same way.
 
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