Is there a Calvinist who thinks he/she is not Elect?

Albion

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You sound like a pelagian universalist.
"People are born good and God loves them all so all go to heaven."
Clearly you reject the solas.

I would love to have you document a basis for any of these claims. (This should be good! ;))
 

MennoSota

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No... I accept it. But if TULIP is right, it's irrelevant....

And faith (no matter how "genuine" or "sincere" or all the other adjectives Calvinists demand) trusts in something non-existent for them, then it's moot. You shared the insecurity you have, and that's logical... since you have no way to know if God loves YOU (He doesn't most people, TULIP insists - so likely not you) and since you have no way to know if Jesus died for YOU (He didn't for most people, TULIP insists - so likely not you)... no Sola Gratia, no Solus Christus.... then you have no way to know if your faith (no matter WHAT it says or feels or is) is actually grasping anything ... you may be grabbing onto pure emptiness (that's what is there for most people - NOTHING). Your faith may be genuine, real, sincere, strong.... with NOTHING to embrace.

My position: Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. Jesus (not self) is (actually, fully) THE (one and only, all-sufficient) Savior (of the world, as the Bible teaches). Sola Gratia (universally), Solus Christus (universally).... THERE'S SOMETHING THERE: His grace, His mercy, His forgiveness. I don't have to guess if I'm one of the FEW for whom this is because it's there for all. Where faith is in Christ, that faith brings that Christ and all He did to to us (faith grasping what is THERE for all). I KNOW I'm loved because God loves everyone (thus me, too)... I KNOW Christ's died for me because He died for all (thus me, too)... I KNOW Jesus is the SAVIOR (not just helper) of me because He is the Savior of everyone (thus me, too).




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I have no insecurities. I trust in a Sovereign God who wills as He so chooses. What do I have to be insecure about?
Josiah, do you deny that humans are corrupted? (Total depravity)?
Do you deny God's sovereign right to choose whom He will express His gracious unmerited favor (Unmerited Election)?
Do you deny that the shed blood of Jesus is only effectual for those whom God chooses to redeem (Limited atonement)?
Do you deny that the will of God cannot be resisted (Irresistible favor)?
Do you deny that God's redeemed people will be kept from being lost because God promised He would not lose even one (Perseverance of the Redeemed)?
All these points are Biblically supported. Which part of the Bible do you reject?
No more of your copy and paste dodging. No more of your deflection. Man up.
 

MoreCoffee

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Why no assurance?

Self deception is always a present risk and the holy scriptures warn not to think one is standing lest he fall. It is part of being aware of one's own capacity for deception of one's self.
 

MennoSota

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Self deception is always a present risk and the holy scriptures warn not to think one is standing lest he fall. It is part of being aware of one's own capacity for deception of one's self.
Seems like you took the holy scriptures out of context
 

MoreCoffee

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Seems like you took the holy scriptures out of context

You say that a lot and yet when read in context nothing of the evident meaning of the passages changes. You'd need to make a convincing case if you want to make that claim here.
 

MennoSota

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You say that a lot and yet when read in context nothing of the evident meaning of the passages changes. You'd need to make a convincing case if you want to make that claim here.
MC, you are sucked into the RC, only God can tear you out.
 

MoreCoffee

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MC, you are sucked into the RC, only God can tear you out.

Equally I can say that you are enmeshed in Calvinist heresy and the devil has your soul until God - in his grace - frees you from the wicked system that has imprisoned your mind, heart, and will.
 

MennoSota

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Equally I can say that you are enmeshed in Calvinist heresy and the devil has your soul until God - in his grace - free you from the wicked system that has imprisoned your mind, heart, and will.
LOL
Grace alone is apparently heresy to you.
 

MoreCoffee

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MennoSota

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Grace is never alone, but grace is no heresy. The heresies are in TULIP.
I asked Josiah what he feels is wrong about the five points. They are all biblically based and supported. Show us the heresy.
 

MoreCoffee

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I asked Josiah what he feels is wrong about the five points. They are all biblically based and supported. Show us the heresy.

People are not Totally depraved
People are not Unconditionally Elected
people are not Limited atonement recipients
People are not Irresistibly graced
People are not Perseverance of the Saints recipients
 

MennoSota

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People are not Totally depraved
People are not Unconditionally Elected
people are not Limited atonement recipients
People are not Irresistibly graced
People are not Perseverance of the Saints recipients
You believe humans are born perfect? Conditionally chosen, Christ saved everyone. Human will is greater than God's and the saints don't persevere.
Hmmm....does that have biblical support oh Pelagius?
 

MoreCoffee

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You believe humans are born perfect? Conditionally chosen, Christ saved everyone. Human will is greater than God's and the saints don't persevere.
Hmmm....does that have biblical support oh Pelagius?

The negation of TULIP is not the same as affirming human perfection, universal salvation, or supreme human will but election could be conditional the condition being repentance and faith both of which are given by God as graces and perseverance in the faith is certainly effort requiring.
 

MennoSota

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The negation of TULIP is not the same as affirming human perfection, universal salvation, or supreme human will but election could be conditional the condition being repentance and faith both of which are given by God as graces and perseverance in the faith is certainly effort requiring.
LOL, your lack of any substance is humorous.
 

Arsenios

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It might be more useful to explain what you believe to be true,
rather than simply saying
"No. Wrong. Be quiet."

MennoSota said:
No...it wouldn't be useful.

It is hard to squeeze blood out of a turnup...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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People are not Totally depraved
People are not Unconditionally Elected
people are not Limited atonement recipients
People are not Irresistibly graced
People are not Perseverance of the Saints recipients

Oh what a refreshing breath of fresh air!


Arsenios
 
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