CRISIS IN ORTHODOXY - UKRANIAN AUTOCEPHALOY

MennoSota

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Thank-you for your prayers, Menno...


Arsenios
Try actually changing your mind, Arsenios. You are thinking in such a narrow box.
 

MennoSota

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"This day will go into history as a sacred day ... the day of the final independence from Russia," Poroshenko told thousands of supporters, who shouted "glory, glory, glory".

"And Ukraine will no longer drink, in the words of Taras Shevchenko, 'Moscow's poison from Moscow's cup,'" he said, quoting the country's national poet.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...new-church-in-split-from-russia-idUSKBN1OE0KG

Ukraine won approval for the new church in October from the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Istanbul, the seat of the global spiritual leader of Orthodox Christians.

"We want to support the process of Ukraine's split from Moscow and for us to have our own church, which is not governed from the Kremlin," said Lyudmyla Alekseyeva, 66, a pensioner who had come to the event with her daughter and granddaughter.

"The church should not depend on those who fight against us in the Donbass."

Supporters wore ribbons in the blue and yellow colors of the Ukrainian flag, with the message "We are going our own way." Many had waited outside in freezing temperatures while the council deliberated.

Religious divisions deepened in Ukraine after 2014 and two Orthodox factions vie for dominance.

The church known as the Moscow Patriarchate, aligned with the Russian Orthodox Church, sees itself as the only legitimate church in Ukraine.

The rival Kiev Patriarchate was born after the collapse of the Soviet Union and its popularity has grown since 2014. It favors European integration and championed the independent church but the Moscow Patriarchate denounces it as schismatic.
 

MoreCoffee

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I still do not see what is so upsetting about Ukraine having its own self governing Orthodox church and Russia having its own. Seems that if the union between Orthodox churches is doctrinal rather than organisational then Ukrainian independence is fine.
 

Arsenios

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I still do not see what is so upsetting about Ukraine having its own self governing Orthodox church and Russia having its own. Seems that if the union between Orthodox churches is doctrinal rather than organisational then Ukrainian independence is fine.

https://youtu.be/NeSfvA4cCtg

Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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I still do not see what is so upsetting about Ukraine having its own self governing Orthodox church and Russia having its own. Seems that if the union between Orthodox churches is doctrinal rather than organisational then Ukrainian independence is fine.
https://youtu.be/NeSfvA4cCtg

Arsenios

I still do not see what is so upsetting about Ukraine having its own self governing Orthodox church and Russia having its own. The video is about political machinations which have nothing to do with the governance of a Christian body such as the Ukrainian Orthodox church. Or do you link Church and state so tightly that the one is the same as the other in your thinking?
 

Arsenios

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The video is about political machinations which have nothing to do with the governance of a Christian body such as the Ukrainian Orthodox church.

Those political machinations are the CIA co-opting the E/P to destabilize the EOC in the Ukraine for its political purposes...

Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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Those political machinations are the CIA co-opting the E/P to destabilize the EOC in the Ukraine for its political purposes...

Arsenios

Do you really think so? Surely God can overcome the CIA
 

Arsenios

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Here is some more:
Ukrainian Security Service (Former KGB) has kidnapped (taken by force) His Eminence Orthodox Metropolitan Agapit (Bevtsik) Of Mogilev-Podolsky and Shargorod, "to talk to the president" of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko.
Tomorrow in Kiev, two groups of Ukrainian nationalist Schismatics, under protection of the Patriarch of Constantinople, will hold a "Unifying Council".
The third and largest group, Canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, refuses to participate.
All 90 bishops of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church decided not to take part in Constantinople's meddling and intrusion in Ukraine.
The Government of Ukraine, headed by schismatic president Petro Poroshenko is pressuring Bishops of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
to participate in this "Unifying Council" and with that legitimize this circus.

Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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It is well documented and admitted...

CIA has no business in Ekklesiastical matters...


Arsenios

I still see no reason to deny Ukraine its own self governing church.
 

Albion

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Arsenios,

Catch me up about this development. Are you saying that the Ecumenical Patriarch is not empowered to do what he appears to have done?...or just that it was wrong of him to do it, although he does have the authority?
 

Arsenios

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Arsenios,

Catch me up about this development. Are you saying that the Ecumenical Patriarch is not empowered to do what he appears to have done?...or just that it was wrong of him to do it, although he does have the authority?

He is being excommunicated by Orthodox Churches...
He is treating his Office as if he is a 1400's Pope...
The CIA has enrolled him to support their regime change in the Ukraine...
And to attack Russia indirectly...
Deep state wants war with Russia...

And he is acting WAY beyond his place in the Orthodox Faith...
He is outside the Canons...
He is supported by the US...
He is acting as a pawn of the US State Department...
In their efforts against Russia...

And Russia [Putin] has said they will not permit persecution and seizures of the Russian Orthodox people, their property, their Churches and Monasteries in the Ukraine... He is standing up for Orthodox Christianity against Her persecutors...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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Arsenios,

Catch me up about this development. Are you saying that the Ecumenical Patriarch is not empowered to do what he appears to have done?...or just that it was wrong of him to do it, although he does have the authority?

No Bishop has this kind of authority in the Orthodox Faith...

He made a deal with the devil...

The US State Department...

Clinton legacy...

Against Russia...


Arsenios
 

Albion

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No Bishop has this kind of authority in the Orthodox Faith...
Ah. I was not sure how that worked. Thank you for replying.
 

Arsenios

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Ah. I was not sure how that worked. Thank you for replying.

All Bishops are constrained by the Canons to keep within their own geographical territories...

Wandering Bishops caused a lot of troubles in ancient times...

The EP is directly under the Turkish yoke...

Russia is again an Orthodox Country...

No longer under the atheists...

We'll see what happens...



Arsenios
 

Albion

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But does the Ecumenical Patriarch not have something to say about which are autocephalous churches, which autonomous, and so on? There have been four different and competing Ukrainian church bodies in recent years and it is confusing to outsiders as you can imagine.
 
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