Can you claim the lord Jesus has set you free from sin.. if sin still masters you ?

[Alithis]

this two fold double standard is troubling .

we all still sin every one says .. as if that is perfectly acceptable -the concept is perversely unacceptable -we were not saved in order to be left languishing under the control of that which we have been saved out of . we are set free in order to go out of bondage and over come . )no not every one overcomes at the same speed but all obedient in christ do overcome , and no not every one overcomes instantly but how can some even begin to when they are being taught this attitude that some how it is ok to continue to sin gods got your back ?? it is never ok ti continue in sin .once you know it to be sin our immediate response is to REPENT , stop it cease from it turn to god and away from the sin .. God has given us the power to do so never allowing us to be tested above what we can resist

we are set free from sin every one also says .. in full contradiction to the first statement.

IF we are set free .. then why does any one says we will still sin as if it is beyond our power to resist when firstly the lord has given us the authority to overcome and has also stated he will not allow us to be tested beyond what we are able to beare. so on both these counts the word of god displays nothing but nothing can "make" us willfully sin a sin which we know to be sin.


if a person is struggling on in a repetitive action they know to be sinful, then be honest to god and cry out for deliverance , and he WILL deliver you and he will make a new heart within you that desires him more the the sin and you WILL walk in the freedom he has won for you .Instead of merely knowing about that freedom you wil begin toi walk IN that freedom.. and you wil KNOW you are free by this simple evidence .. you will NO LONGER do that sin .. THIS is the power of the salvation of god in christ JESUS .. this is the power of the cross at work in us .. that having been set free ,we wil no more return to serve that which we are set free from ..

this is the word of god and this my experience and testimony -it is not judgment ,nor condemnation , it is grace and hope to the captive -You can know freedom in JESUS if you believe him and if you OBEY him ... (obedience is NOT on AUTO PILOT - it's your choice ,the choice he freed you to have .our redeemer lives and he delivers .. but he never delivers us so that we might go back and be enslaved again.he is the doer of the impossible , what seems impossible to man is FULLY possible with GOD . whatever the sin may be he is ABLE he is READY he is WILING to forgive and to work a miracle in you and do what you in your own strength can never do . cause you to walk free and go and sin no more . For this is what he came to do, this is our hope and our Joy that we might know him and be reconciled unto him in righteousness

do people still sin.. ? (we have covered that ) yes .. do those in christ go on to keep sinning and continue practicing the same sin ? no ! -for IF they do that they are showing by thier actions that they are not his deciples ,nor serve him nor love him nor even know him .

 

[Lamb]

You're removing the aspect of "faith". You are not the one to determine who is and isn't one of God's disciples and Jesus warns not to even try.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You're removing the aspect of "faith". You are not the one to determine who is and isn't one of God's disciples and Jesus warns not to even try.

Obviously the temptation to include and exclude from the Kingdom of God based on one's own views of this and that doctrine is too great to be resisted. That will explain why [MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION] has scolded me for being a Catholic so many times and imputed all manner of nefarious motives to my posts. I reckon it is usually much better and far more consistent with one's profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ to answer the matter under discussion and leave the person who debates against one's beliefs to themselves without comment on their person, morals, or prospects of heavenly reward.

 

[Lamb]

Alithis, I really must say that I am not against repentance. I'm not against preaching against sin. But some of your other details I disagree with that you try to enforce that I don't believe are biblical. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Alithis]

You're removing the aspect of "faith". You are not the one to determine who is and isn't one of God's disciples and Jesus warns not to even try.

no one is has removed faith no one is "determining any such thing " ..one is offering the gospel ,one is pointing out the freedom to be had, one is declaring the good news .

what would you have me preach? , that christ died and rose again so you can be free from sin but really he failed and you cant actually be be free from direct unambiguous sin ?

im not going to preach that sorry . the lord jesus said repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached . repentance is not and never has been a one off instance, but a way .. a continued stance a maintained state of walking in the way of the lord having turned from the way of sin .. you know the title chrsitian was given to beleivers by the world . before that they were referred to as followers of the way .. they had turned from one path to walk another . that is repentance .. when we turn from one path leading to destruction and walk the path leading to life . if we do not remain on that path then we turn back to the path that leads to death death is where we will go .

and he shall say to them depart from me you workers of iniquity ... even though they say but we went to church and cast out demons and did lost of good sounding stuff.. and he calls them workers of iniquity .. why ? becaseu they would not obey him they would not cease from thier iniquity . thier SIN. they did not repent .they thought it wa enough to join a church and do god things they would not obey the command to repent ./ there is absolutely NOTHING unbiblical in anything im saying . JESUS came to set us free .. why should i serve that which i am set free from to do what the flesh wils when i am set free from its dictate . for obeying it leads to sin and to death .


( i have not said a person might never mess up and sin..but that they do not "have to " im saying no one needs to (or is to remain in) be in a cycle of repeated sin when they know it is sin. a way has been made for us to be free and remain free .- i of all people know this to be absolute truth )

 

[visionary]

I met this person who apologized for everything. It was his insurance policy that he had asked for forgiveness for everything, therefore in his mind, nothing was missed, and he would remain saved. BUT he was a horrid person and had no intention of living a transformed life. He was the extreme "saved by grace"... and what a foul spirit to all those who met him... dishonoring our Lord's offer like that.

 

[Alithis]

it should not seem foreign to the sincere believer that there is this glorious HOPE ..
that christ died for our sin and lay in the ground for three days and three nights and Rose again from the dead and is alive for ever more .. to set us FREE from the power of sin and the death it brings .. that we might now serve righteousness we are freed from the master called disobedience ..that we might now obey ..
obedience is not on auto pilot . as it is written .. we die daily.

we were saved for a purpose -we did not fulfill that purpose before we were saved .. if we do not fulfill that purpose now that we have been saved by faith.. what good are we?
Every branch (a branch is a person saved and grafted into the vine of the lord jesus ) that does NOT bare fruit ..is cut off and cast aside . it is then gathered up and thrown into fire .

it is no by our opinion that we are judged but by every word the lord JEsus spoke .

 

[MoreCoffee]

... He was the extreme "saved by grace"...

Yet the holy scriptures do say "Yet still, God, who is rich in mercy, for the sake of his exceedingly great charity with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our sins, has enlivened us together in Christ, by whose grace you have been saved. And he has raised us up together, and he has caused us to sit down together in the heavens, in Christ Jesus, so that he may display, in the ages soon to arrive, the abundant wealth of his grace, by his goodness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not of yourselves, for it is a gift of God. And this is not of works, so that no one may glory. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works which God has prepared and in which we should walk." (Ephesians 2:4-10) Surely grace is the reason for salvation.

 

[Lamb]

no one is has removed faith no one is "determining any such thing " ..one is offering the gospel ,one is pointing out the freedom to be had, one is declaring the good news .

what would you have me preach? , that christ died and rose again so you can be free from sin but really he failed and you cant actually be be free from direct unambiguous sin ?

im not going to preach that sorry . the lord jesus said repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached . repentance is not and never has been a one off instance, but a way .. a continued stance a maintained state of walking in the way of the lord having turned from the way of sin .. you know the title chrsitian was given to beleivers by the world . before that they were referred to as followers of the way .. they had turned from one path to walk another . that is repentance .. when we turn from one path leading to destruction and walk the path leading to life . if we do not remain on that path then we turn back to the path that leads to death death is where we will go .

and he shall say to them depart from me you workers of iniquity ... even though they say but we went to church and cast out demons and did lost of good sounding stuff.. and he calls them workers of iniquity .. why ? becaseu they would not obey him they would not cease from thier iniquity . thier SIN. they did not repent .they thought it wa enough to join a church and do god things they would not obey the command to repent ./ there is absolutely NOTHING unbiblical in anything im saying . JESUS came to set us free .. why should i serve that which i am set free from to do what the flesh wils when i am set free from its dictate . for obeying it leads to sin and to death .


( i have not said a person might never mess up and sin..but that they do not "have to " im saying no one needs to (or is to remain in) be in a cycle of repeated sin when they know it is sin. a way has been made for us to be free and remain free .- i of all people know this to be absolute truth )

Repentance is fine to preach when understood correctly. Repentance is God's work in us and it is gift talk.

 

[psalms 91]

Repentance is fine to preach when understood correctly. Repentance is God's work in us and it is gift talk.

Repentance is a deep sorrow for whta we have done, a sincere desire to turn away from, it requires the action of not doing it again or at least less until we have the mastery of it. Faith yes, that jesus will help us, but also requires action

 

[Alithis]

Repentance is a deep sorrow for whta we have done, a sincere desire to turn away from, it requires the action of not doing it again or at least less until we have the mastery of it. Faith yes, that jesus will help us, but also requires action

Yup..
Repentance is not an has never been acknowledging sin then continuing in it.
Last time i pointed out this basic fact it was purposely misconstrued i believe.

But if your marital spouse sinned in adultery against you..then did "that"Kind of repenting..tears and sorrow and so you forgive..and the next day they go and commit adultery again.. Will you say to everyone..oh its ok he/she repented already.. ?! Nope!
Repentance is not a one off instance it is a continuation of faithfulness to the one we love.
I do not need to ask god to forgive me for what he has already forgiven me unless i went and willfully did it again.and so made myself guilt again.And if i did so repeatedly,then that is evidence that i have not yet repented...
There is no forgivness without repentance because we make ourselves guilty again and so profane the blood of christ.

 

[Alithis]

let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body ..to obey IT ..

there is and always has been -choice to obey or disobey one the lord Jesus has set us free to do so
there is always choice to "seek God " in prayer and fasting and to seek Godly council if there be a stronghold that seems to be incontrol.. for if a sin is in control there we KNOW it is not of the holy Spirit .. and thus that spiritual stronghold is to be broken.. IF, the person actualy wants it to be broken and does not love it for then there is no repentance and a right is given to that sinful spirit to maintain its hold . but with repentance and faith in the shed blood of the lord Jesus its hold can be utterly broken ..this is the glory of the salvation of God in christ Jesus and our wondrous hope .. for he is our sure deliverer .

 

[Lamb]

Repentance is a deep sorrow for whta we have done, a sincere desire to turn away from, it requires the action of not doing it again or at least less until we have the mastery of it. Faith yes, that jesus will help us, but also requires action

Repentance consists of contrition yes, but also faith. It's God who turns us to Him through faith, for those without faith reject Him and do not turn toward Him. We do the turning but it's God turning us. Like a sculptor with clay. He molds us and shapes us. That's God in our lives.

 

[Stravinsk]

Repentance consists of contrition yes, but also faith. It's God who turns us to Him through faith, for those without faith reject Him and do not turn toward Him. We do the turning but it's God turning us. Like a sculptor with clay. He molds us and shapes us. That's God in our lives.

Would it be correct to say that one cannot repent unless one is a Christian of some definition and believes in the life, death and resurrection of Messiah? That is what your post and (indeed many) Christians seem to think.

I know and am friends with people of other faiths. They can repent just the like the rest of us.

 

[psalms 91]

Would it be correct to say that one cannot repent unless one is a Christian of some definition and believes in the life, death and resurrection of Messiah? That is what your post and (indeed many) Christians seem to think.

I know and am friends with people of other faiths. They can repent just the like the rest of us.

Of course you can repent with a worldly sorrow but what we are talking about is a Godly sorrow for sin for our state for hurting God, thta is a repentance that other faiths cannot share because they dont believe in our God

 

[Alithis]

Would it be correct to say that one cannot repent unless one is a Christian of some definition and believes in the life, death and resurrection of Messiah? That is what your post and (indeed many) Christians seem to think.

I know and am friends with people of other faiths. They can repent just the like the rest of us.

upon hearing the gospel we must then be obedient of the message .. thus we must repent to the father be baptised into the death and resurrection of the son and recive the Holy Spiirt . and thus have entered into full reconciliation with "GOD " (or the godhead if you like )
repentance is turning and a changing of the mind and the mind a consistently maintained decision to remain obedient to God .

i personally cannot not adhere to the thought that a one off act is repentance if you then go back t the sinful activities that made you the sinner in the first place .

 

[visionary]

I think there is a bigger picture here.

You find the cross in the outer court of the Temple services. You find in Rev 11 two groups, in verse 1 the group is in the Temple. In group 2 found in verse 2 you find those still in the outer court. I have to ask... what did those in verse 1 know that had them move on from the milk of the gospel to the meat found in the Temple? This thread is all about the milk of the gospel... but once you have grasp the concept of "saved by grace" then what? What did those who moved into the Temple find out? Maybe this...

All Outer Court Vessels are Bronze
Bronze also means the judgment of all the sins of mankind. Go back to the time when the fiery serpents were biting and killing the people. That day that Moses put a serpent up on the pole and if the people would look upon it they would live. It was made out of bronze. People may not realize the connection between the brass objects in the outer court, but Yeshua pointed to it and said that it pointed to Him. He was made like sin so that when you who look to Him for salvation and you also may be saved from the serpent’s bite … so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

It was not the graven serpent that healed but the faith that if you looked upon it as the God told Moses to tell the people to do that healed them, by faith they knew God would heal them if they obey and God did the healing. Just as Yeshua who was a curse on the tree, and many believed that He was the son of God are still healed today. They looked up Yeshua repent and believe. They are fully forgiven and healed. Those who look upon the pole and see Yeshua, the innocent guiltless lamb, made sin for us represented by the serpent, will get a glimmer of what Yeshua was telling them. Proof of His right, to say that He can save us, is in the power of the resurrection. No mere mortal is capable of resurrect their own body, cut off as we had been from the Tree of Life, only a God can do this. Only because Yeshua is God Himself can this be so.

As it happened later, people missed the message and worshiped the serpent on the pole and it had to be torn down. Today the pole needs to be torn down. Do not miss this message and worship the serpent. Satan is one brazen, bold, deceitful, conniving, instigator of malicious devious lies. Understand how repentance in your heart brings the promises of God to your life, and healing of your mind and body from the bites of Satan.
 

 

[psalms 91]

I think there is a bigger picture here.

You find the cross in the outer court of the Temple services. You find in Rev 11 two groups, in verse 1 the group is in the Temple. In group 2 found in verse 2 you find those still in the outer court. I have to ask... what did those in verse 1 know that had them move on from the milk of the gospel to the meat found in the Temple? This thread is all about the milk of the gospel... but once you have grasp the concept of "saved by grace" then what? What did those who moved into the Temple find out? Maybe this...

All Outer Court Vessels are Bronze
Bronze also means the judgment of all the sins of mankind. Go back to the time when the fiery serpents were biting and killing the people. That day that Moses put a serpent up on the pole and if the people would look upon it they would live. It was made out of bronze. People may not realize the connection between the brass objects in the outer court, but Yeshua pointed to it and said that it pointed to Him. He was made like sin so that when you who look to Him for salvation and you also may be saved from the serpent’s bite … so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

It was not the graven serpent that healed but the faith that if you looked upon it as the God told Moses to tell the people to do that healed them, by faith they knew God would heal them if they obey and God did the healing. Just as Yeshua who was a curse on the tree, and many believed that He was the son of God are still healed today. They looked up Yeshua repent and believe. They are fully forgiven and healed. Those who look upon the pole and see Yeshua, the innocent guiltless lamb, made sin for us represented by the serpent, will get a glimmer of what Yeshua was telling them. Proof of His right, to say that He can save us, is in the power of the resurrection. No mere mortal is capable of resurrect their own body, cut off as we had been from the Tree of Life, only a God can do this. Only because Yeshua is God Himself can this be so.

As it happened later, people missed the message and worshiped the serpent on the pole and it had to be torn down. Today the pole needs to be torn down. Do not miss this message and worship the serpent. Satan is one brazen, bold, deceitful, conniving, instigator of malicious devious lies. Understand how repentance in your heart brings the promises of God to your life, and healing of your mind and body from the bites of Satan.
 

Amen

 

[Alithis]

I think there is a bigger picture here.

You find the cross in the outer court of the Temple services. You find in Rev 11 two groups, in verse 1 the group is in the Temple. In group 2 found in verse 2 you find those still in the outer court. I have to ask... what did those in verse 1 know that had them move on from the milk of the gospel to the meat found in the Temple? This thread is all about the milk of the gospel... but once you have grasp the concept of "saved by grace" then what? What did those who moved into the Temple find out? Maybe this...

All Outer Court Vessels are Bronze
Bronze also means the judgment of all the sins of mankind. Go back to the time when the fiery serpents were biting and killing the people. That day that Moses put a serpent up on the pole and if the people would look upon it they would live. It was made out of bronze. People may not realize the connection between the brass objects in the outer court, but Yeshua pointed to it and said that it pointed to Him. He was made like sin so that when you who look to Him for salvation and you also may be saved from the serpent’s bite … so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

It was not the graven serpent that healed but the faith that if you looked upon it as the God told Moses to tell the people to do that healed them, by faith they knew God would heal them if they obey and God did the healing. Just as Yeshua who was a curse on the tree, and many believed that He was the son of God are still healed today. They looked up Yeshua repent and believe. They are fully forgiven and healed. Those who look upon the pole and see Yeshua, the innocent guiltless lamb, made sin for us represented by the serpent, will get a glimmer of what Yeshua was telling them. Proof of His right, to say that He can save us, is in the power of the resurrection. No mere mortal is capable of resurrect their own body, cut off as we had been from the Tree of Life, only a God can do this. Only because Yeshua is God Himself can this be so.

As it happened later, people missed the message and worshiped the serpent on the pole and it had to be torn down. Today the pole needs to be torn down. Do not miss this message and worship the serpent. Satan is one brazen, bold, deceitful, conniving, instigator of malicious devious lies. Understand how repentance in your heart brings the promises of God to your life, and healing of your mind and body from the bites of Satan.
 

and the ongoing stance of the repentant heart is ? .. to go back and commit the sins which allowed the serpent to come with the sting of death ? of course not
but to now live in the righteousness of god and not continue in sin .we who are set free need not serve that which we have been freed from - if we have indeed been set free .

 

[visionary]

Yup..
Repentance is not an has never been acknowledging sin then continuing in it.
Last time i pointed out this basic fact it was purposely misconstrued i believe.

But if your marital spouse sinned in adultery against you..then did "that"Kind of repenting..tears and sorrow and so you forgive..and the next day they go and commit adultery again.. Will you say to everyone..oh its ok he/she repented already.. ?! Nope!
Repentance is not a one off instance it is a continuation of faithfulness to the one we love.
I do not need to ask god to forgive me for what he has already forgiven me unless i went and willfully did it again.and so made myself guilt again.And if i did so repeatedly,then that is evidence that i have not yet repented...
There is no forgivness without repentance because we make ourselves guilty again and so profane the blood of christ.

Excellent point.... it goes well with understanding the "searing" of the conscience too.