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Arsenios

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God says we have to believe and repent. No one can repent and believe for you.

You know that is true but you speak untruths regardless.

When you want to run across the street as a toddler and Mommy says no, you begin to learn obedience by obeying her...

IF you do NOT know obedience as a child, you cannot obey anyone until you learn it...

Children are learning...

The teaching of the parents to the children constitutes discipling of the children...

Whether for good or for evil...

Baptism is quintessentially NOT a moral commitment...

It is an ontological one...

One that has moral dimensions...

For we are Baptized INTO Christ...

And Christ commissioned the Apostles to Baptize...

Thus Apostolic Baptism IS Christ Baptizing...


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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Birth control was not then what it is now, you know...
That is really an ignorant response to my saying that not all households have little children in them.
You bring up birth control; well child death was maybe more common too because antibiotics where discovered yet and neither were immunizations.
Now try not to lean to the left or to the right of the written Word.
Do you want me to obey YOU???
You don’t know that the Bible says that do you.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

Deuteronomy 5:32
So be careful to do as the LORD your God has commanded you; you are not to turn aside to the right or to the left.

Deuteronomy 28:14
Do not turn aside to the right or to the left from any of the words I command you today, and do not go after other gods to serve them.
The acquisition of the Holy Spirit is a lifetime endeavor...
If you do not have the Holy Spirit then you do not belong to God.
His prayers had reached on High...

Yet he was not yet Baptized into Christ...
Of course Cornelius was baptized and put in Christ and Christ in him.
But her parents can...
God does not say to repent and believe so our infants can receive the Holy Spirit.
You are sinning by preaching things not in the Bible.
Getting bossy again?

I thought I was supposed to obey Christ!

Why are you trying to usurp Christ's authority??


Arsenios

You are a false witness and slanderer.

Show where I do what you claim.
 

YourTruthGod

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When you want to run across the street as a toddler and Mommy says no, you begin to learn obedience by obeying her...

IF you do NOT know obedience as a child, you cannot obey anyone until you learn it...

Children are learning...

The teaching of the parents to the children constitutes discipling of the children...

Whether for good or for evil...

Baptism is quintessentially NOT a moral commitment...

It is an ontological one...

One that has moral dimensions...

For we are Baptized INTO Christ...

And Christ commissioned the Apostles to Baptize...

Thus Apostolic Baptism IS Christ Baptizing...


Arsenios

You speak things from the imagination.

There is no scripture anywhere that says we can repent and believe for our children so that they can receive the Holy Spirit.
 

YourTruthGod

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Our Pascha Liturgy begins in one hour at midnight...

Christ is Risen!

Truly He is Risen!

And the 54 day Great Fast of Lent is broken around 1:30 AM...

Meat and dairy again on the table!

Butter and milk and eggs and bacon!

But first, the Liturgy of Pascha...

Christ IS the Passover...

The Paschal Lamb...


Arsenios

1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

6 If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters, a you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

11 Command and teach these things.
 

YourTruthGod

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At that time, both the Living and the dead will have been judged...

Some of the Living to condemnation...

Some of the dead to Glorification...

What is essential to keep in this context is that Salvation in Christ is in THIS life...



Yes and yes...

But the Church teaches that the Seal of the Holy Spirit is tenacious...
One would about have to become a Satanist to lose it...

But the losing of the Salvation given in Baptism...
Is a very easy thing to lose...
Just embrace sin...
You will find departure from God...

And you will be tempted...
Christ was tempted after His Baptism...
Temptation is a refining fire...
The Mystery of Evil...


Arsenios

You try to usurp God's authority.

Show in the Bible that says what you say.
 

YourTruthGod

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Arsenios falsely accused me of trying to usurp Jesus' authority.

He should have been more careful how he judged, because he exposed exactly what he does.

He says we can give the Holy Spirit to our children by believing and repenting of sins for them.

God does not say that, Arsenios does.
 

YourTruthGod

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Do you see all your accusations?

You are hurling accusations...



You did not say that - You ORDERED ME to obey God...

Double bind oxymoronocism...

You did not merely inform me that God in the Bible says obey Him...



Which is THE correct response...



You accused me of doing so...



I said the the Iconography of the Ekklesia of God is not ONLY the works of our hands...

They are a part of the Holy Things of God...



You got that one right - And you had no answer...



You can tell it to Paul...

Hurling rapid-fire accusations over the internet is not what Christians are called to do...

Don't you agree?

You need to think about what YOU say to another person...
Isn't that how it works...?
What one is falsely accused of...
Is exactly what the false accuser is doing...
He claimed Spiritual Fatherhood...


Your very own words...


Arsenios

Paul never tells anyone to call him 'father'.

Paul was explaining that he was among the Apostles, one among the few people who got the gospel message directly from Jesus and not taught by men---that is what an Apostle is.
Paul was not reading from books or letters about the gospel, nor was he being taught first by Peter and the others, but the Holy Spirit taught Paul.

Paul, as a person who got the message before others, in this he was like a father for being before the others. However, Paul does not say to call him ‘father’, and there is nowhere in the Bible where anyone calls Paul ‘father’.

Paul never told anyone to call him father. Paul was saying that Timothy was like family, they were like a father and son. See Philippians 2:22.

Paul calls Timothy BROTHER and therefore Paul is calling himself a brother

1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God's service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia:

Colossians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,


Paul calls Titus BROTHER:which, again, makes Paul calling himself a brother

2 Corinthians 2:13 I still had no peace of mind, because I did not find my brother Titus there. So I said goodbye to them and went on to Macedonia.


Paul is called BROTHER:

2 Peter 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

Acts 9:17 So Ananias went to the house, and when he arrived, he placed his hands on Saul. "Brother Saul," he said, "the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here, has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox call their brother's in Christ 'father'. The brothers even call each other 'father'.

In 1 Corinthians 1:15, Paul says to the believers in Corinth that they do not have many fathers in Christ. However, we can see how this is opposite of the Catholic religion. The Catholic religion calls all their priests ‘father.’ The Catholic “fathers'“ call each other 'father'! There must be tens of thousands of fathers in the Catholic religion.

Now that is defiance to what Jesus says.
 

YourTruthGod

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I said the the Iconography of the Ekklesia of God is not ONLY the works of our hands...

They are a part of the Holy Things of God...

Leviticus 26:1"'You must not make for yourselves idols, so you must not set up for yourselves a carved image or a pillar, and you must not place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down before it, for I am the LORD your God.

No longer bow down to the work of your hands (see Micah 5:13)

1 John 5:21 Dear children, keep yourself from idols.

The Orthodox do venerate (worship) icons (idols). They do a metanoia (bow) to the wooden pictures (things made by their own hands). They also kiss these objects, and prostrate themselves to these objects made by their hands.
 

Arsenios

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You know that is true but you speak untruths regardless.

You have to learn repentance by obedience somewhere...

Why are you so seemingly addicted to slandering those with whom you disagree...

I understand you as mistaken, but not as deliberately speaking untruths...

Do you want a discussion?

Or do you want a slander-festival?


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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You have to learn repentance by obedience somewhere...

Why are you so seemingly addicted to slandering those with whom you disagree...

I understand you as mistaken, but not as deliberately speaking untruths...

Do you want a discussion?

Or do you want a slander-festival?


Arsenios

You accused me of the greatest sin ever.

You need to be called out on it.

I can defend myself if I want.
 

YourTruthGod

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You have to learn repentance by obedience somewhere...

Why are you so seemingly addicted to slandering those with whom you disagree...

I understand you as mistaken, but not as deliberately speaking untruths...

Do you want a discussion?

Or do you want a slander-festival?


Arsenios

You said infants are water baptized and at that time given the Holy Spirit.

You said that the parents believe and repent for them.

That is NOT in the scriptures.
 

Arsenios

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Leviticus 26:1
"'You must not make for yourselves idols,
so you must not set up for yourselves a carved image or a pillar,
and you must not place a sculpted stone in your land
to bow down before it,
for I am the LORD your God."

Yes, we bow down to the LORD our God before His Holy Image...

Do you bow down?

Do you worship God with your face on the earth?

So tell me something - In Heb 9:1 - How do you interpret the word: "ALSO"?

Do you regard the OT statues of Cherubim behind the veil above the Mercy Seat as idols in the Tabernacle?


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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You said infants are water baptized and at that time given the Holy Spirit.

You said that the parents believe and repent for them.

That is NOT in the scriptures.

Blah blah blah...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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You accused me of the greatest sin ever.

You need to be called out on it.

I can defend myself if I want.


Stop slandering...

Fairly simple, really...

Slander does not have to be false to be slander...

Even saying something true to defame someone is slander...

IF you are defending your SELF you are disobeying Christ...

We are to DENY our SELF...

And to treat our NEIGHBOR as our SELF...

Think about it...


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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Yes, we bow down to the LORD our God before His Holy Image...

Do you bow down?

Do you worship God with your face on the earth?

So tell me something - In Heb 9:1 - How do you interpret the word: "ALSO"?

Do you regard the OT statues of Cherubim behind the veil above the Mercy Seat as idols in the Tabernacle?


Arsenios

Show where the people bowed in front of those things.

Show where Jesus told us to make images and bow in front of them.
 

Arsenios

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Paul never tells anyone to call him 'father'.

He said he is their father who birthed them through the Gospel...

He did not command them to call him Father, you are right...

It was something his children did on their own and it became Christian practice...

Calling your father Father is anathema to you???

The Episkopoi are brethren with the Apostles...

But more important, we are ALL Christ's brothers...


Arsenios
 

Lamb

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This thread is closed for a cool down. Someone remind me in 24 hours to reopen it.
 
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