Are We Saved by Grace or Decision?

[Rens]

If God already has you in the palm of his hand, how do you choose to be there if you're already there? He is the one who gives you faith to trust that your sins are forgiven so you may have eternal life. Now that you have faith, you can't choose your way into it. You have it. It's yours.

Yes I mean before you get saved you make a decision.

 

[Rens]

I give up, it is like talking to a brick wall.

LOL

 

[Lamb]

Yes I mean before you get saved you make a decision.

There are verses saying that the Gospel is foolishness to an unbeliever. Turtlehare posted a bunch of verses. Did you read them? You can't decide to be with Jesus if you're an unbeliever.

 

[Lamb]

I give up, it is like talking to a brick wall.

My exact sentiments toward you and others

 

[Lamb]

I still have yet to see from the people who feel that they participate in their salvation WHAT PERCENTAGE you play in that role of Savior? You see, as Josiah keeps pointing out but is ignored, if you're playing a role in your salvation then you become co-Savior. You steal away from Jesus being SOLE SAVIOR. So what percentage is your role that you think you need to do before you can get saved according to your theology?

 

[Rens]

There are verses saying that the Gospel is foolishness to an unbeliever. Turtlehare posted a bunch of verses. Did you read them? You can't decide to be with Jesus if you're an unbeliever.

Oh weird cause I did when I was first atheist and then believed He existed but never heard the gospel.

 

[Rens]

I still have yet to see from the people who feel that they participate in their salvation WHAT PERCENTAGE you play in that role of Savior? You see, as Josiah keeps pointing out but is ignored, if you're playing a role in your salvation then you become co-Savior. You steal away from Jesus being SOLE SAVIOR. So what percentage is your role that you think you need to do before you can get saved according to your theology?

I dont feel like that at all. I made a decision but I didn't save myself.

 

[Rens]

My exact sentiments toward you and others

LOL

 

[Lamb]

Oh weird cause I did when I was first atheist and then believed He existed but never heard the gospel.

Scriptures say (read Turtlehare's thorough post) that we cannot say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Believing God exists is not saving faith. Faith grasps onto the Savior Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sins. That's the Gospel, the good news that the Jesus told His disciples to teach. Once you believe that Jesus is the Savior, THAT is saving faith and that didn't come from any decision of yours but because the Holy Spirit gave you faith to believe.

 

[Lamb]

I dont feel like that at all. I made a decision but I didn't save myself.

Your decision came after you received saving faith. You were already saved by the faith given to you by the Holy Spirit. Your decision did not give you salvation and it really wasn't a decision since you already KNEW that Jesus was your Savior because the Holy Spirit gave you faith to believe. You could not make any confession of faith without the Holy Spirit first giving you the gift of faith.

 

[Josiah]

You see, as Josiah keeps pointing out but is ignored, if you're playing a role in your salvation then you become co-Savior. You steal away from Jesus being SOLE SAVIOR. So what percentage is your role that you think you need to do before you can get saved according to your theology?

Josiah makes a really good point there. :ewink:


WHY will you step into heaven? Is it because of what Jesus has done or because of what YOU have done? If it's because of Jesus - then you are saved by grace and Jesus is the Savior. If it's because of you (your will, your cognative decision, your brain, your IQ, your education, your works, your choices, you deeds, your ___________) - then you are saved by your accomplishments and you are the Savior of you.

Another way to look at this is: WHAT, exactly, determines if I get into heaven - and who actually DOES that? You may say that faith is what means I do or do not get into heaven, but if faith is something YOU do, YOU perform, YOU accomplish.... then salvation hinges on YOU and what YOU do. Thus we are NOT saved by Grace but by your accomplishment.... Jesus is not the Savior of you, you are the Savior of you.


Now, I realize, some like to fudge both.... not really all one or the other.... Jesus is not WHOLLY the Savior and self is not WHOLLY the Savior but Jesus did what He could (perhaps), it just didn't save us; what we have is two CO-Saviors. Jesus is not the Savior but PART Savior along with self. But Lamm here is right: Then we need to give percentages: Jesus is "X" percent the Savior and self is "X" percent the Savior???? We need to determine what - exactly - Jesus DID do if He didn't actually save you? Is He the "Doorman" who opens the door to heaven to those good enough or smart enough or jumped through all the hoops well enough - those deserving and accomplishing it? Is He the "Possibility Maker" who opened the door to heaven but you gotta get yourself through it, you gotta actually save yourself? If He's not the Savior, what is He? And again, if He is only PART Savior, how much is His part, what percentage Savior is He?



Soli DEO Gloria



- Josiah



.

 

[psalms 91]

Your decision came after you received saving faith. You were already saved by the faith given to you by the Holy Spirit. Your decision did not give you salvation and it really wasn't a decision since you already KNEW that Jesus was your Savior because the Holy Spirit gave you faith to believe. You could not make any confession of faith without the Holy Spirit first giving you the gift of faith.

If we are already saved then why do anything? If all are saved then there is no point in good or evil. While I believe in faith and saving grace I think you take it to far just like when tyou think that Jesus isnt the saviour as our position. Seems to me that either extreme is a bad thing and totally wrong and misrepresented.

 

[Rens]

Your decision came after you received saving faith. You were already saved by the faith given to you by the Holy Spirit. Your decision did not give you salvation and it really wasn't a decision since you already KNEW that Jesus was your Savior because the Holy Spirit gave you faith to believe. You could not make any confession of faith without the Holy Spirit first giving you the gift of faith.

No I started to grasp it a bit, apparently I had to ask for forgiveness, so I prayed and then I was saved and noticed I all of a sudden didn't hate all those people I used to hate anymore.

 

[Rens]

Josiah makes a really good point there. :ewink:


WHY will you step into heaven? Is it because of what Jesus has done or because of what YOU have done? If it's because of Jesus - then you are saved by grace and Jesus is the Savior. If it's because of you (your will, your cognative decision, your brain, your IQ, your education, your works, your choices, you deeds, your ___________) - then you are saved by your accomplishments and you are the Savior of you.

Another way to look at this is: WHAT, exactly, determines if I get into heaven - and who actually DOES that? You may say that faith is what means I do or do not get into heaven, but if faith is something YOU do, YOU perform, YOU accomplish.... then salvation hinges on YOU and what YOU do. Thus we are NOT saved by Grace but by your accomplishment.... Jesus is not the Savior of you, you are the Savior of you.


Now, I realize, some like to fudge both.... not really all one or the other.... Jesus is not WHOLLY the Savior and self is not WHOLLY the Savior but Jesus did what He could (perhaps), it just didn't save us; what we have is two CO-Saviors. Jesus is not the Savior but PART Savior along with self. But Lamm here is right: Then we need to give percentages: Jesus is "X" percent the Savior and self is "X" percent the Savior???? We need to determine what - exactly - Jesus DID do if He didn't actually save you? Is He the "Doorman" who opens the door to heaven to those good enough or smart enough or jumped through all the hoops well enough - those deserving and accomplishing it? Is He the "Possibility Maker" who opened the door to heaven but you gotta get yourself through it, you gotta actually save yourself? If He's not the Savior, what is He? And again, if He is only PART Savior, how much is His part, what percentage Savior is He?



Soli DEO Gloria



- Josiah



.

How on earth does saying yes or saying a prayer make you a co savior? Hey I have money here to bail you out. Do you want that? Yes please. Get me out of this prison. Nooooo!!! Don't say yes!! Then you're a co savior. You're already out of prison. No I'm not. This guy bails me out if I say yes.

 

[Lamb]

If we are already saved then why do anything? If all are saved then there is no point in good or evil. While I believe in faith and saving grace I think you take it to far just like when tyou think that Jesus isnt the saviour as our position. Seems to me that either extreme is a bad thing and totally wrong and misrepresented.

Why do anything? You mean obey God because you love Him?

Salvation is a free gift that doesn't need repayment. It was won for you over 2,000 years ago. You don't have to ask for what was already won.

 

[Lamb]

No I started to grasp it a bit, apparently I had to ask for forgiveness, so I prayed and then I was saved and noticed I all of a sudden didn't hate all those people I used to hate anymore.

The ONLY way you could have ever asked for forgiveness was if the Holy Spirit first gave you faith. HE was at work at you but you didn't even know it. You just felt His prodding as He worked within you to bring you to repentance.

 

[Lamb]

How on earth does saying yes or saying a prayer make you a co savior? Hey I have money here to bail you out. Do you want that? Yes please. Get me out of this prison. Nooooo!!! Don't say yes!! Then you're a co savior. You're already out of prison. No I'm not. This guy bails me out if I say yes.

The bail was already paid before you were born. You didn't have to ask for it!

 

[psalms 91]

Why do anything? You mean obey God because you love Him?

Salvation is a free gift that doesn't need repayment. It was won for you over 2,000 years ago. You don't have to ask for what was already won.

OK then it doesnt matter how we live since we are already all saved, right?

 

[Lamb]

OK then it doesnt matter how we live since we are already all saved, right?

God's Laws tells us that if we give in to our sinfulness that we can fall from faith. It's not that WE keep ourselves in faith, that's what the Holy Spirit does, but sin can make us fall and that's our fault.

We can't repay God for what He has done for us but we can surely be grateful, can't we???

 

[Rens]

The bail was already paid before you were born. You didn't have to ask for it!

No? Where's that in the Bible? How did the robber on the cross get saved?
If you were born in a christian home maybe there wasn't a moment you said the sinner's prayer, but at least you must confess He's Lord.

if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.