Are We Saved by Grace or Decision?

[Brighten04]

All y'all decisioners haven't posted satisfying scripture to proof yourselves but here is what our bible says on how you're saved by the grace of God

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Here the very question that we ask, what must one do to be saved. The very concise and leaves no question as to what a person HAS to do.

Also, Apostle Peter did not tell the crowd that they had to do nothing when they asked what they must do.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19
Repentt ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

OH NO! Repent AND turn!:scared:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

So we see the person must repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. I like the way Romans put it.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Tis is specific. Yes, Lord Jesus is the Savior and we cannot save ourselves. But He is a gentleman and will not force us against our will. We can choose to accept or reject the free gift of salvation. Just as any other gift can be accepted or rejected.

 

[Josiah]

Tis is specific. Yes, Lord Jesus is the Savior and we cannot save ourselves. But He is a gentleman and will not force us against our will. We can choose to accept or reject the free gift of salvation. Just as any other gift can be accepted or rejected.

1. IF we gotta do x, y and z to be saved, then we are not saved by grace but by doing x, y and z (good ENOUGH). IF out entrance into heaven ultimately depends on what I do, then Jesus is not my Savior - I am.

2. The Bible nowhere says that God's gifts and blessings are dependent upon our asking for them or willing them or at least not defiantly shouting, "NO WAY JOSE!" God is the Lord of us - we are not the Lord of God. God didn't need my permission or my choosing when He gave me physical life, why when He gave me spiritual life? When God caused that truck the other day to swerve and miss me, He didn't first ask my permission and He didn't need my permission.

3. The Bible says that faith is "the gift of God" and "not our own doing, lest anyone can boast." The Bible says, "NO ONE can even say 'Jesus is Lord' (believe) unless the Holy Spirit gives it. The Bible says that before we had faith, we were "DEAD." Spiritually DEAD. Deader than a doornail. How can spiritually dead people make spiritual choices?

4. If you get the gift because you deserved it by your cognative choices or by your asking or it or by giving God permission to love you, then it's not a free gift - in a way, you earned it, you DID something that meant you therefore were given it.

5. The word "and" both in English and in koine Greek is simply a connector. It only associates things. It does NOT mandate chronological order (doesn't even remotely imply it). Many of the verses you quoted by no means support the point you might be making, unless you delete the word "and" and substitute instead, "then." And some of the verses you quoted aren't about justification at all.

Interesting.... the greatest gift (other than faith) I've ever received is life. Are my parents disrespectful.... my father not a gentleman because my permission was not given? Why is it disrespectful and "ungentlemanly" for God to simply, unconditionally love us and bless us? Why MUST God's love be conditional and limited? Why does God need MY permission to love me, bless me? Why MUST love be conditional (and thus "agape" in the Bible is, well, wrong)?



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

All y'all decisioners haven't posted satisfying scripture to proof yourselves but here is what our bible says on how you're saved by the grace of God

Unbelivers consider the Gospel foolish and can’t understand

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 1:23-25 …but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.


Ourselves fight against God

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!”
Ephesians 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.


Natural man (unconverted) is an enemy of God

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 3:10-12 “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; here is no one who does good, not even one.
John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.


God grants repentance to us to give life

Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”


God opens the heart

Acts 16:14 One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.
Matthew 11:27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


God gives understanding

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


God makes us alive

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Colossians 2:13-14 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.


Conversion is God's Work

Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Philippians 2:13 …for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.



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Good to review....



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

In Lutheranism, how does one BECOME a Christian?

[MENTION=153]Brighten04[/MENTION]


By grace.


Grace: God's favor. God's gift. God's blessing.
Christ is the Savior. Christ saves us.


The exact HOW..... the timeline (if there is one), the details..... they are mystery. But this much Lutherans affirm: We are saved by God's grace (His undeserved, unmerited, unearned and likely unrequested) gift, blessing.... entirely because of Jesus. Soli DEO Gloria (to God ALONE goes all the glory, all the credit, all the thanks.... GOD did it).

Much like how we gain physical life. I was born on January 23, 1988. Let's assume I was conceived on April 23, 1987. God GAVE me life..... I did nothing to bring it about. I didn't earn it, deserve it, achieve it, merit.... heck, I didn't even will or request it. But God gave to me one of the greatest of all His blessings: life. He used some means (I'm sure I don't have to go into that) but regardless, He performed a blessing...... grace........ Well, God not only give physical life but also spiritual life. Grace. God's undeserved blessing and gift. God's act, God's doing, God's heart, God's blessing, God's gift.


Lutherans look to the Cross, not in the mirror.


Lutherans express this (justification, narrow) by three entirely interconnected proclamations of one truth: Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. ONE truth, ONE doctrine. God's agape love, His mercy, His heart is the reason, the basis, the cause (not OUR goody-goodiness)...... All through and because of Christ, who IS THE one-and-only and all sufficient SAVIOR (His righteousness, His obedience, His life, His death, His resurrection, His merits, His blood, His Cross, His achievements, the Lamb of God who TAKES AWAY our sins)..... which is apprehended to us by means of faith (trust, reliance) which is the gift of God. Can I explain EXACTLY how and why God does all this? WHY He loves us? WHY and HOW Christ was incarnate for us? Why and how Jesus was both God and man for us? Why and how His life, death and resurrection justifies us? Why and how God gives faith? Nope. Don't need to.

"For God so loved (agape, grace) the world that He gave (free, unearned GIFT) His only begotten Son (Jesus Christ) that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life."

"God saves us not because of things we do but by virtue of His own mercy... that we might be justified by His grace."

"The free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."

"For by God's grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing but rather it is the free gift of God."




This may help....

Ask: WHO is The SAVIOR?

IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation (in the sense of justification, narrow) is entirely, wholly wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you. It's God's GRACE (getting what we don't deserve/achieve)


IF you answer "me" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. YOUR decision. YOUR intelligence and reason. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you. It's my ACHIEVEMENT.



Which is it?



If that actually means you enter heaven is because of YOU (your works, your decision, you reciting the 'sinner's prayer', you being righteous, you being obedient, your this, your that.... you are good enough..... ) then you are the Savior of you. Now maybe Jesus was a good model or example or teacher..... maybe Jesus (and His mother) HELP you..... maybe Jesus is the Doorman who opens the door to those good enough to enter, those deserving to enter.... but the reason you enter heaven is because of YOU! Pat yourself on the back...... Thank yourself..... boast loudly.... you are the Savior of you! You've done God a favor.

If that actually means you enter heaven because of JESUS (His works, His love, His blessing, His gift, His grace, His mercy), because HE was righteous/holy/perfect, because HE died on the Cross for you, because HE is risen from the dead, because HE is good enough.... then Jesus is the Savior. Now maybe you should respond with love and works, maybe you should have humility and repentance, maybe you should grow to be more Christ-like in heart and life, but the reason you enter Heaven is because of Jesus, because Jesus saves, because Jesus is the Savior. God has blessed you.


Which is it?



SOME want to side with modern Pharisical Judaism or Islam or Hinduism and say "God HELPS those who help themselves, but you gotta do x,y,z." They want to say "Jesus is the Savior.... kinda, sorta.... BUT YOU gotta........" in order to enter heaven, in order to have forgiveness, in order to have mercy. But all that is just a clever way of saying Jesus does NOT save.... Jesus is NOT the Savior.... the reason I'm heaven bound is because of ME, glory be to ME, thanks be to ME, pulling out a plum and shouting "What a good boy am I!" It's insisting that we are NOT saved/justified by the grace of God (getting what we don't deserve), we are saved/justified because I did all I had to do, I jumped through all the required hoops, I jumped high enough, I am good enough, I am smart enough...... It's kind of an insult to the Cross, an insult to Christ.... but maybe good for the ego of self (all that padding of self on the back) .... until one considers the "ENOUGH." Am I good ENOUGH? Have I decided ENOUGH? Have I jumped through all the required hoops? After all, it's easy to trust Christ but if we are honest .... if we are real..... if we stop fooling ourselves... self actually makes a very unreliable Savior.

SOME want to say, "We are saved by grace but only if you do _________" but then it's not grace. St Paul penned, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law (what we do), then Christ died for no purpose."



Soli Deo Gloria!



- Josiah




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[Brighten04]

Josiah, to become a Christian, you must be born again, meaning born of the Holy Spirit.The way you all are explaining it, you don't have to do anything to be saved. Yet, I have provided scripture that shows you must repent, you must believe in the Lord Jesus and in His resurrection. If this is not a requirement, then as Bill said, that makes our Father a respecter or persons, picking and choosing who will be saved.So why does He not just save EVERYBODY? If people can reject salvation, the same people can repent and accept salvation. A person must turn away from sin and to the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Josiah]

Josiah, to become a Christian, you must be born again, meaning born of the Holy Spirit.The way you all are explaining it, you don't have to do anything to be saved.

Correct. That's why Jesus is the Savior and not me. That's why I'm saved by grace and not by my accomplishment(s).

Perhaps you assume that one must give self life. Where do you get that idea? How did you get physical life? If you can't give yourself physical life, how in the world can you give yourself spiritual life?

Yet, I have provided scripture that shows you must repent

What you've not shown is that WE must DO something - so that we become the savior of self. I think perhaps you have - in your mind anyway - replaced all the "and" words with "then" words? If I wrote, "I got up this morning and took a shower and make a pot of coffee" that's all absolutely accurate and grammatically correct. But I didn't do it in that order. The "and" doesn't indicate a certain chronological order... must less MANDATE it.... this morning and every other morning.

you must believe in the Lord Jesus and in His resurrection

Of course, but that's not the issue. I must live to have life but that doesn't mean my living CAUSED and BROUGHT ABOUT my life. It is God's grace or my decision? Gift or accomplishment?

Why does He not just save EVERYBODY?

You'd need to ask God (He never says in Scripture). But this thread is not about predestination (a point on which nearly all Christians agree is true), it's about justification. Are we saved by grace or by our decision? Is it a free gift of God or is it a reward for our accomplishment(s)?

See posts 123 and 124.

If people can reject salvation, the same people can repent and accept salvation.

No. If a person is dead, they have death. It doesn't mean THEREFORE they can choose life. "No" is the "default position" our fallen nature is in. Death is where the unregenerated are at. I know of no case where a dead anything CHOOSES itself to life.


I hope that helps....


Blessings!



- Josiah

 

[Lamb]

No? Where's that in the Bible? How did the robber on the cross get saved?
If you were born in a christian home maybe there wasn't a moment you said the sinner's prayer, but at least you must confess He's Lord.

if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Faith in the Savior is key. Our confession is a result of faith. The confession isn't what saves but is a result of faith that the Holy Spirit gives you so you believe that your sins are forgiven because the Savior died for you. The thief on the cross believed in the Savior who was right there with him.

 

[Brighten04]

Perhaps you assume that one must give self life.

how in the world can you give yourself spiritual life?

No I never said or intimated that.But, as scripture commands, I have repented of my sin.

What you've not shown is that WE must DO something -

What you must DO is repent. Go and read those scriptures again. We repent, Jesus saves us.

Of course, but that's not the issue. I must live to have life but that doesn't mean my living CAUSED and BROUGHT ABOUT my life. It is God's grace or my decision? Gift or accomplishment?

Grace is a gift given to every person, just and unjust alike. When we are born, the gift of the breath of life is given, just and unjust alike. We are born physically. But Jesus instructed Nicodemus, telling him that he must be born again. But Jesus started His own ministry by telling people to repent.
Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Now why would He do that if people did not need to repent?

If people can reject salvation, the same people can repent and accept salvation.
No. If a person is dead, they have death. It doesn't mean THEREFORE they can choose life. "No" is the "default position" our fallen nature is in. Death is where the unregenerated are at. I know of no case where a dead anything CHOOSES itself to life.


I hope that helps....

This is false equivalency brother. So why would Lord Jesus tell DEAD people to repent.Yes unregenerate man is dead in trespasses and sin. But God gave His Son so that the dead in sin can come to life in Him by regeneration.It is a gift of God.

I hope this helps you.

 

[Lamb]

Josiah, to become a Christian, you must be born again, meaning born of the Holy Spirit.The way you all are explaining it, you don't have to do anything to be saved. Yet, I have provided scripture that shows you must repent, you must believe in the Lord Jesus and in His resurrection. If this is not a requirement, then as Bill said, that makes our Father a respecter or persons, picking and choosing who will be saved.So why does He not just save EVERYBODY? If people can reject salvation, the same people can repent and accept salvation. A person must turn away from sin and to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance = gift from the Holy Spirit
Believing = comes from faith that is given by the Holy Spirit

Christ died on the cross for our sins and we are forgiven. We can't believe that unless the Holy Spirit enables us by giving us faith. We can't turn to God in repentance unless the Holy Spirit enables us because it's a gift according to scripture (see Turtlehare's long scripture filled post).

You DO NOT have to do a thing for salvation. God provides for you and gives you life, just as He gave life to Adam and life to Lazarus. They didn't ask for it. They didn't have to work for it. They saw that they were alive because of God. They trusted in Him.

Scriptures show that people reject the Savior. That is why not all are saved.

You are an adopted daughter of God. He placed you in that position just as He gave you life when your mother conceived you and gave you new life again when you were baptized. That's all God's doing. Nothing came from you to be born or born again. Nothing.

 

[Lamb]

No I never said or intimated that.But, as scripture commands, I have repented of my sin.



What you must DO is repent. Go and read those scriptures again. We repent, Jesus saves us.



Grace is a gift given to every person, just and unjust alike. When we are born, the gift of the breath of life is given, just and unjust alike. We are born physically. But Jesus instructed Nicodemus, telling him that he must be born again. But Jesus started His own ministry by telling people to repent.
Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Now why would He do that if people did not need to repent?



This is false equivalency brother. So why would Lord Jesus tell DEAD people to repent.Yes unregenerate man is dead in trespasses and sin. But God gave His Son so that the dead in sin can come to life in Him by regeneration.It is a gift of God.

I hope this helps you.

Law and Gospel. That's the answer. Man needs to hear Law. The Holy Spirit uses Law to convict us but He uses the Gospel to turn us in repentance. Again, it's the Holy Spirit using the word.

 

[Brighten04]

Scriptures show that people reject the Savior. That is why not all are saved.

Scripture also show people accepting the savior. That is them doing something.

Christ died on the cross for our sins and we are forgiven.

One is not forgiven if one does not repent.

We can't believe that unless the Holy Spirit enables us by giving us faith. We can't turn to God in repentance unless the Holy Spirit enables us because it's a gift according to scripture (see Turtlehare's long scripture filled post).

Agreed. But we must believe (DO). Yes He gives us faith to do it (Turn). And we have to respond in faith in the affirmative. We have the choice to choose or reject Lord Jesus Christ. I read Turtlehare's scripture posts and they are true. We are saved by grace through faith and it is a gift. And like I said, like all gifts, it have to be received or rejected.

They trusted in Him.

So they did DO something. They trusted in Him.

 

[Josiah]

Scripture also show people accepting the savior. That is them doing something.

If I breathe, does that mean I caused myself to come to life, caused myself to breathe? Or does it simply mean that I breathe?

I'm alive right now. Doing things. Does that mean I caused myself to come to life?

One is not forgiven if one does not repent

Well..... Jesus on the Cross said of His excutioners: "Father, forgive THEM." Are you certain those killing Jesus asked Him for forgiveness? Yes.... we are called to repentance but God is not prohibited from forgiving whomever HE chooses to forgive. We are not the Lord of God, He is the Lord of us.

But the one who is spiritually DEAD can't do anything spiritual. One has to be alive to do something. The Bible says the unregenerate are DEAD.

While even a dog can feel remorse, repentance is not remorse. Repentance is stopping the sin.... turning to God's MERCY for forgiveness... walking in the right path. Repentance is a spiritual act (while remorse is a psychological and emotional thing). Repentance requires spiritual life since it is a spiritual act. IMO, perhaps you are "hung up" on things that are associated.... again, thinking of some Scriptures but replacing the word "and" with "then" so that some sequence, some order is at least implied. But the Scriptures you've quoted don't say "then" they say "and." You'd need to change the word to get the implication you might be taking from them.

But we must believe (DO).

Faith does something (trusts, relies) but that doesn't mean that WE CAUSED that faith by first performing x, y, z......

Yes He gives us faith

That's EXACTLY what Lamm and Tigger and and Turtlehare and I have been saying. Watch the opening video again.

We have the choice to choose or reject Lord Jesus Christ

So, which is it? God gives us faith (saved by grace) or we decide (saved by our accomplishment)?





- Josiah

 

[user1234]

Eve believed a lie and left Adam. (I know the feeling). Adam loved her and wanted to still be with her. He ate, too. (I know the feeling).

Without God, both were lost. (I know the feeling).
God shows His love grace and mercy in coming after them.
He sought them! (Amazing love).
They tried to hide. (I know the feeling)

He sought them out and sacrificed a precious sinless innocent animal to cover them, (a symbol or type of the 'lamb slain from the foundation of the world', (notice the figurative language for the very real Lord Jesus Christ) (and despite the fact that some religious ppl think symbols and figurative language aren't important or are meaningless, I still don't get that) but wow, AMAZING GRACE!

Adam and Eve didn't really choose between good and evil, they chose to disobey God and found out that was evil. And henceforth all of mankind was stained, (too mild a word) soaked through, with original sin. But God saved us, by giving us His only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, not just to COVER us, but to deliver us, to TAKE AWAY our sin, which He did by shedding His blood and dying ON THE CROSS and rising from the grave. Hallelujah!

Now if we reject the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour, we are dead in our sins, and if we die unsaved we spend eternity separated from God. In misery unimaginable.
But we don't HAVE to die unsaved, For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten SON (That's Jesus), that WHOSOEVER WILL (that's us) believe in HIM (That's Jesus) should not perish, but HAVE everlasting life.

Salvation is a GIFT, the gift, of GOD.
We receive salvation by FAITH.
We can choose to reject salvation, ppl do it all the time.
GOD can save anyone HE chooses, He does it all the time.

It's not 'Either/Or' ... it's 'Both/And' .
That's a hard one to grasp, eh?
Greater minds than mine have been soaring the heights and plumbing the depths of issues like God's sovereignty/Man's free-will, etc., for ages.
I sincerely doubt us ppl on our little internet devices are going to have it all finally figured out and wrapped up neatly, especially in between our more important activities like doing laundry, cleaning the bathroom, and telling each other what we eat, playing counting games and doing our ABC's.
No offense to anyone, I play too, we all like to play, right?

But GOD calls us to the unity of the faith in Christ.
Coming together, not pushing each other away.
He says let whosoever WILL, take of the water of life freely.
He wants His children to rejoice because our names are written in heaven.
If you want to be saved, make a decision to believe in Jesus,
get saved, and give Him all the thanks and praise that He saved you!
Some choose to play religious ping-pong. Decisions, decisions.

 

[user1234]

I reject (quite passionately) that we save ourselves (rendering Jesus irrelevant) by our performing x, y, z. So, to me, your point that babies perhaps can't do "x, y, z" is irrelevant to me: the baby isn't the Savior of self, Jesus is the Savior.

The issue thus is what Jesus can do, not what a 42 year old or a 2 minute old person can or can't do. You need to get your focus off you and on the Lord.... stop being obsessed with what you see in the Mirror and instead lift high the Cross.

Josiah ... Pleeeease ... When are you gonna stop the strawman arguements and putting words in my mouth and then using them to try to knock me down in order to bolster your own position? It's really gotten old, and you just keep coming off as arrogant and juvenile, and it's so unnecessary.

When, Josiah, WHEN WHEN WHEN did I EVER say that I save myself, or that Jesus is not my Saviour 100% , in total, complete .... When did I say I am looking in the mirror at self to save self???!!! I'm so tired of the bs accusations hurled my way!

The Lord Jesus Christ is my Saviour. HE died for my sins, HE rose from the grave, HE saved me and I am saved.
By HIM.
HIS finished work on the cross, HIS resurrection from the grave.
HIS gift .
How many times have I written from John10 of The Good Shepherd?, *Jesus speaking... 'MY sheep hear MY voice, and I know them and they follow me. And I GIVE ..... GIVE GIVE GIVE ..... unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.'
Jesus paid it all, allto Him I owe.
He did the work, we receive the benefit, He gets all the glory!

Josiah, can I make myself any clearer than that?, and can you please stop searching for a way to take every post of mine that you reply to,​ to add, twist, or some other way malign what I write and thereby accuse me of saying and/or believing something I do not?!

I am am a blood-bought, born-again, child of the Living God, a brother in Christ (adopted into the family), and I am saved by His grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to God alone, that is to say, to God only, be the glory, and as far as I can see it, and I know it, the bible says it, that settles it, there isn't any other way TO be saved except by the Lord Jesus Christ.
!
There is much religionism going on out there, and somewhat in here, .... and I am not a part of that stuff, so can we finally move past the false accusations and insinuations?

In fact, now that I've posted this, (along with the pure unadulterated gospel many times), if I keep getting accused of believing in salvation by self, or works, or religion, or anything but the grace of God through faith in Jesus, it will make me wonder about the accuser's motive, method and message, because they obviously would show no interest in the truth, nor brotherly love, or maybe they themself aren't saved?
Thanks.

 

[Lamb]

Unbelivers consider the Gospel foolish and can’t understand
1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 1:23-25 …but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Our bodies fight against God
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!”
Ephesians 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.

Natural man (unconverted) is an enemy of God
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 3:10-12 “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; here is no one who does good, not even one.
John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Above are scriptures that Turtlehare posted that show you that unbelievers cannot make a decision for Jesus.

 

[Rens]

Above are scriptures that Turtlehare posted that show you that unbelievers cannot make a decision for Jesus.

Unbelievers? All unbelievers? Then how come they get saved? The devil had blinded them so you pray and bind those demons and if theyre not that bunch that could not accept Him they say yes and get saved and He works that. The robber on the cross got saved by grace and made a decision to ask Him to remember him and not mock Him. Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[psalms 91]

Unbelievers? All unbelievers? Then how come they get saved? The devil had blinded them so you pray and bind those demons and if theyre not that bunch that could not accept Him they say yes and get saved and He works that. The robber on the cross got saved by grace and made a decision to ask Him to remember him and not mock Him. Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This

 

[TurtleHare]

Unbelievers? All unbelievers? Then how come they get saved? The devil had blinded them so you pray and bind those demons and if theyre not that bunch that could not accept Him they say yes and get saved and He works that. The robber on the cross got saved by grace and made a decision to ask Him to remember him and not mock Him. Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Your kidding, right, plz tell me your just joking about this and if your not then let me introduce you to my friend called God cuz he's that guy that saves and converts and unblinds the blind. That my dear is how nonbelievers become believers.

 

[Josiah]

When, Josiah, WHEN WHEN WHEN did I EVER say that I save myself, or that Jesus is not my Saviour 100% , in total, complete .... When did I say I am looking in the mirror at self to save self???!!! I'm so tired of the bs accusations hurled my way!

I never said anything about YOU. What I stated is that if salvation ultimately depends on what self does, then ergo that means that self is the savior of self. Can you dispute that? (you haven't tried).

How many times have I written from John10 of The Good Shepherd?, *Jesus speaking... 'MY sheep hear MY voice, and I know them and they follow me.

Nice quote, it just has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this thread. This thread is not about what CHRISTIANS, those already Christian, those already saved, those already justified, those already His sheep, may or may not do, may or may not be commanded to do. It's about BECOMING His sheep, BECOMING a Christian, GAINING faith, BEING justified. Yes, of course, CHRISTIANS follow Jesus but rarely do Atheists, unbelievers, nonchristians, people without faith. Your point is nice just entirely irrelevant to anything remotely related to this thread or the question we're discussing. Friend, if you want to talk about what CHRISTIANS do, people who HAVE FAITH ALREADY do, great!! But start your own thread on that entirely different topic, please don't hijack this one.

He did the work, we receive the benefit, He gets all the glory!

Great. Then all your posts could be summerized with "Josiah, I agree with you." But it sure seemed that you were disagreeing. If all your posts are basically, "Josiah - you're absolutely right!" (and you just worded that oddly) than wonderful. If not, then it seems perhaps we disagree on something?





- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

Your kidding, right, plz tell me your just joking about this and if your not then let me introduce you to my friend called God cuz he's that guy that saves and converts and unblinds the blind. That my dear is how nonbelievers become believers.

I agree.


1. We are saved because we have a Savior and He saves us. Ain't that complicated..... This is the essence, the point, the keystone of Christianity - the very point on which Christianity is built, the very point on which Christianity stands or falls.


2. If salvation depends on what I do, then I'm not saved by grace but by my work. If salvation depends on what I do, then Jesus is not my Savior, I am.


3. As you have proven via the words of Scripture, the unregenerate are DEAD, spiritually DEAD - and therefore Scripture says they cannot do anything spiritual. So how can they save themselves? How can they believe in Jesus? How can they choose Jesus? How even can they repent (a SPIRITUAL act) rather than simply have remorse (as even animals do)? The Bible says that NO ONE is CAPABLE of faith. The Bible says that faith is "the work of God and not of man lest any should boast" (boasting, taking pride that WE are the reason WE are saved is the underlining issue here).



Soli DEO Gloria


"It's ALL about JESUS!" "Lift High the Cross" (and not my mirror)



- Josiah



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