Jesus is 100% God and 100% man at the same time

[MoreCoffee]

And yet none can answer my question

faith in selfless unity for good

Which question?

 

[popsthebuilder]

The first. It was written in the form of a statement.

Post #315

Why would the eternal GOD manifest and kill itself to be a payment to itself?

We'll keep it simple for starters.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[MoreCoffee]

The first. It was written in the form of a statement.

Post #315

Why would the eternal GOD manifest and kill itself to be a payment to itself?

We'll keep it simple for starters.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

Is that what happened?

 

[popsthebuilder]

I have my perception; my own, perhaps skewed or clouded, partial knowledge.
I would appreciate a straight forward answer.

If you can't or otherwise do not want to answer then fine, but please do not misdirect from the initial question at hand... please.

What I am attempting to say is that I will happily answer, or rather; attempt to answer any questions you have posed or will pose... after you, at very least, seem to put up some level of honest attempt at a simple logical answer to my question; as the things of GOD are not synonymous with confusion and misdirection.

peace



faith in selfless unity for good

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have my perception; my own, perhaps skewed or clouded, partial knowledge.
I would appreciate a straight forward answer.

If you can't or otherwise do not want to answer then fine, but please do not misdirect from the initial question at hand... please.

What I am attempting to say is that I will happily answer, or rather; attempt to answer any questions you have posed or will pose... after you, at very least, seem to put up some level of honest attempt at a simple logical answer to my question; as the things of GOD are not synonymous with confusion and misdirection.
peace
faith in selfless unity for good

I ask if the sacrifice of himself to himself was really what happened because I am not sure that is how holy scripture ever presents it.

 

[Lamb]

I'm sorry to keep asking the same question and really do mean no disrespect towards the beliefs of any but I'm still wondering why an eternal omnipotent omniscient benevolent creator GOD would need to manifest itself in utter fullness to be a blood sacrifice to itself in order for people to go about sinning and believing they are safe and have eternal blissful life. I've asked around here and other forums and none can logically answer this question because the premise itself is illogical.

It would be very much appreciated if someone could actually give a real, in scripted, logical answer.

Thanks in advance.

As always;

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

You state that no one answered your question.

Is the part of the question you don't understand the answer to this... why an eternal omnipotent omniscient benevolent creator GOD would need to manifest itself in utter fullness to be a blood sacrifice to itself

The answer is that since man (100% man or fully man) was the reason for the fall, then 100% (or fully man) man had to be the atonement for all of mankind.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Good answer.


But that in no way answers why 100%GOD would need or desire to, manifest and sacrifice itself to itself (that 100% man can continue in knowing sin).

That is a really good answer though.

I would say the best I have ever heard out loud.

Your honesty is noted.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[Lamb]

Good answer.


But that in no way answers why 100%GOD would need or desire to, manifest and sacrifice itself to itself (that 100% man can continue in knowing sin).

That is a really good answer though.

I would say the best I have ever heard out loud.

Your honesty is noted.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

God remains God always so there is 100% God.

God demanded sacrifice from mankind (100% man).

Man couldn't live up to that.

God became man (100%) without losing his divinity (100% God) in order to live the perfectly obedient life we could not and die in our place so the sacrifice was accepted. It was all about what God expected and we could not live up to it, so God, being merciful saved us.

 

[popsthebuilder]

God remains God always so there is 100% God.

God demanded sacrifice from mankind (100% man).

Man couldn't live up to that.

God became man (100%) without losing his divinity (100% God) in order to live the perfectly obedient life we could not and die in our place so the sacrifice was accepted. It was all about what God expected and we could not live up to it, so God, being merciful saved us.

What a change; from simple honesty to utter illogic.



faith in selfless unity for good

 

[atpollard]

If the Christ, Jesus of Nazareth is and was and always has been omnipotent then why did he proclaim that He knew not the hour at which he would return, or at what time the end and judgement would be? Did He not state that only the father knew of such?

Surely I don't perceive the Christ to be of deceit, so what other explanation is there?

Also, why did he cry" Abba, why have you forsaken me" if he himself was the utter fullness of GOD. That's not omnipotent. And him being crucified shows that he wasn't omnipotent.

Note that this is not a discussion about the Holy Spirit, or refutation that Christ is, was, and always will be wholly of GOD.

I will gladly move past these things when they are logically addressed.

Thank everyone for their participation.

And thank you for opening this thread.

I hope we can converse in the spirit of understanding and brotherly help.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Since this thread is SO LONG, I just wondered if these questions were ever answered for you.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Since this thread is SO LONG, I just wondered if these questions were ever answered for you.

No sir or ma'am; I must say that though a couple have tried, they have not been logically answered in their entirety.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[user1234]

No sir or ma'am; I must say that though a couple have tried, they have not been logically answered in their entirety.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

What is it you really want to know at this point?
Have you yet asked the most crucial question, 'What must I do to be saved?'.

 

[popsthebuilder]

What is it you really want to know at this point?
Have you yet asked the most crucial question, 'What must I do to be saved?'.

I'm sorry my questions may make it seam as if I haven't accepted the Christ of GOD as my personal savior. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was an atheist for a very long time. I'm not now. I could pm an attempted explanation to anyone interested or post it here with the permission of the OP I suppose. But that really is irrelevant.

Faith is a thing that grows. For a couple of years I though my faith wasn't actually faith, because it took very little belief as my faith was the product of an experience that happened to me. It was a thing caused by GOD, and wholly irritable to me personally. But now, thankfully, I am beginning to grasp what it is to actually be faithful.

To be clear; my personal salvation from eternal destruction is not my motivation. I now long for a peace that I smelt only the lightest hint of. The rest of GOD, when the work of GOD is done in my life. I now attempt and will attempt to have patience and gain perseverance in all things without waver, without deviation, in utter devout faithfulness, regardless of affliction brought on by my own hand or the hands of another.

Now that we are talking; why would you assume I am not a Christian? I assure you I do not deny the Christ, nor His teachings, example, or self-sacrifice. Nor do I deny the second coming.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[user1234]

I'm sorry my questions may make it seam as if I haven't accepted the Christ of GOD as my personal savior. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was an atheist for a very long time. I'm not now. I could pm an attempted explanation to anyone interested or post it here with the permission of the OP I suppose. But that really is irrelevant.

Faith is a thing that grows. For a couple of years I though my faith wasn't actually faith, because it took very little belief as my faith was the product of an experience that happened to me. It was a thing caused by GOD, and wholly irritable to me personally. But now, thankfully, I am beginning to grasp what it is to actually be faithful.

To be clear; my personal salvation from eternal destruction is not my motivation. I now long for a peace that I smelt only the lightest hint of. The rest of GOD, when the work of GOD is done in my life. I now attempt and will attempt to have patience and gain perseverance in all things without waver, without deviation, in utter devout faithfulness, regardless of affliction brought on by my own hand or the hands of another.

Now that we are talking; why would you assume I am not a Christian? I assure you I do not deny the Christ, nor His teachings, example, or self-sacrifice. Nor do I deny the second coming.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

The answer to your last question is found in your own first sentence in this same post. I arrived at the point honestly based on your questions, sorry if I misinterpreted.

 

[Rens]

The first. It was written in the form of a statement.

Post #315

Why would the eternal GOD manifest and kill itself to be a payment to itself?

We'll keep it simple for starters.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

The sin nature had to be destroyed. He could say: oh sure Adam, no problem, hey lets just forget about your mistake and take a bite from the tree of Life. Then he would have been eternally in that mixed state, half good, half evil.
God is holy, righteous and forgiving. If you dont get a new holy nature you can't be in His Presence cause in His Light all your sin gets exposed and then people flee to darkness to hide. The sin nature had to be dealt with, the ego. And no other man is sinless so noone else but Himself could take it upon Him and have it killed.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am 100% sleepy

 

[Lamb]

What a change; from simple honesty to utter illogic.



faith in selfless unity for good

Are you attempting to use human logic to figure out what God had already deemed to do? What point don't you understand from my simple explanation that answered your question 100%.

 

[Pedrito]

Pedrito thinks he understands why popsthebuilder could consider that important questions he has posed have not been satisfactorily addressed.

For instance: “Why would the eternal GOD manifest and kill itself to be a payment to itself?”

That would have been based at least in part, a statement made in Post #39 on Page 4: “Only God could be perfect enough for the sacrifice to be accepted. ONLY GOD.”

Yet, in Post #323 on Page 33, popsthe builder was asked:
“Is that what happened?”
Followed by, in Post #325 on the same page:
“I ask if the sacrifice of himself to himself was really what happened because I am not sure that is how holy scripture ever presents it.”

Pedrito’s understanding is in line with what he understands MoreCoffee’s understanding to be, MoreCoffee being the author of the two statements above. (Pedrito understands that his method of expressing his understanding might require some understanding.)

==============================================================================================

Pedrito’s understanding is the same as that given in response to popsthebuilder’s question in Post #15 on Page 32:
“I'm sorry to keep asking the same question and really do mean no disrespect towards the beliefs of any but I'm still wondering why an eternal omnipotent omniscient benevolent creator GOD would need to manifest itself in utter fullness to be a blood sacrifice to itself in order for people to go about sinning and believing they are safe and have eternal blissful life. I've asked around here and other forums and none can logically answer this question because the premise itself is illogical.

It would be very much appreciated if someone could actually give a real, in scripted, logical answer.”

The response was (Post #216 on Page 33 [Emphasis added]):
“Is the part of the question you don't understand the answer to this... why an eternal omnipotent omniscient benevolent creator GOD would need to manifest itself in utter fullness to be a blood sacrifice to itself

The answer is that since man (100% man or fully man) was the reason for the fall, then 100% (or fully man) man had to be the atonement for all of mankind.”

==============================================================================================

We can see at least one reason why popsthebuilder may consider he is getting the runaround (Pedrito’s term). Can’t we?

The same person who said “Only God could be perfect enough for the sacrifice to be accepted. ONLY GOD" also said "The answer is that since man (100% man or fully man) was the reason for the fall, then 100% (or fully man) man had to be the atonement for all of mankind", as well as "God became man (100%) without losing his divinity (100% God) in order to live the perfectly obedient life we could not and die in our place so the sacrifice was accepted. It was all about what God expected and we could not live up to it, so God, being merciful saved us.".

Pedrito understands that the Holy Scriptures do plainly reveal "that since man (100% man or fully man) was the reason for the fall, then 100% (or fully man) man had to be the atonement for all of mankind".

If that be true, then there was no need for Jesus to be 100% God when he was on Earth. Only a perfect man. The Holy Bible tells us that God sent His Son to be that perfect man, the perfect sacrifice required to reverse the wages of Man's sin (death). Because of the Son of God's obedience, the Son of God was rewarded by God, God giving to His obedient Son a name that is above every name.

The risen Jesus is now sitting at the right hand of the throne of God (Mark 16:19, Acts 2:33, Acts 5:31, Colossians 1:3, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 10:12, Hebrews 12:2, 1 Peter 3:22).

Pedrito hopes this has been of some help to popsthebuilder.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Are you attempting to use human logic to figure out what God had already deemed to do? What point don't you understand from my simple explanation that answered your question 100%.

Human logic? Just logic. And no; I'm not trying to figure out what GOD had already deemed to do. I don't understand the points that makes no sense. How can one understand a thing that is illogical? It is literally impossible. You understand your answer in your own eyes because it is what you have been taught by man. But do you actually understand it? Based on your own post I would have to say no.

peace Lamb, i didn't mean to be so short with you previously; but I have been asking these questions for some time and always get the same scripted nonsense that has been force fed to the faithful towards GOD for nearly a couple thousand years.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[popsthebuilder]

Pedrito thinks he understands why popsthebuilder could consider that important questions he has posed have not been satisfactorily addressed.

For instance: “Why would the eternal GOD manifest and kill itself to be a payment to itself?”

That would have been based at least in part, a statement made in Post #39 on Page 4: “Only God could be perfect enough for the sacrifice to be accepted. ONLY GOD.”

Yet, in Post #323 on Page 33, popsthe builder was asked:
“Is that what happened?”
Followed by, in Post #325 on the same page:
“I ask if the sacrifice of himself to himself was really what happened because I am not sure that is how holy scripture ever presents it.”

Pedrito’s understanding is in line with what he understands MoreCoffee’s understanding to be, MoreCoffee being the author of the two statements above. (Pedrito understands that his method of expressing his understanding might require some understanding.)

==============================================================================================

Pedrito’s understanding is the same as that given in response to popsthebuilder’s question in Post #15 on Page 32:
“I'm sorry to keep asking the same question and really do mean no disrespect towards the beliefs of any but I'm still wondering why an eternal omnipotent omniscient benevolent creator GOD would need to manifest itself in utter fullness to be a blood sacrifice to itself in order for people to go about sinning and believing they are safe and have eternal blissful life. I've asked around here and other forums and none can logically answer this question because the premise itself is illogical.

It would be very much appreciated if someone could actually give a real, in scripted, logical answer.”

The response was (Post #216 on Page 33 [Emphasis added]):
“Is the part of the question you don't understand the answer to this... why an eternal omnipotent omniscient benevolent creator GOD would need to manifest itself in utter fullness to be a blood sacrifice to itself

The answer is that since man (100% man or fully man) was the reason for the fall, then 100% (or fully man) man had to be the atonement for all of mankind.”

==============================================================================================

We can see at least one reason why popsthebuilder may consider he is getting the runaround (Pedrito’s term). Can’t we?

The same person who said “Only God could be perfect enough for the sacrifice to be accepted. ONLY GOD" also said "The answer is that since man (100% man or fully man) was the reason for the fall, then 100% (or fully man) man had to be the atonement for all of mankind", as well as "God became man (100%) without losing his divinity (100% God) in order to live the perfectly obedient life we could not and die in our place so the sacrifice was accepted. It was all about what God expected and we could not live up to it, so God, being merciful saved us.".

Pedrito understands that the Holy Scriptures do plainly reveal "that since man (100% man or fully man) was the reason for the fall, then 100% (or fully man) man had to be the atonement for all of mankind".

If that be true, then there was no need for Jesus to be 100% God when he was on Earth. Only a perfect man. The Holy Bible tells us that God sent His Son to be that perfect man, the perfect sacrifice required to reverse the wages of Man's sin (death). Because of the Son of God's obedience, the Son of God was rewarded by God, God giving to His obedient Son a name that is above every name.

The risen Jesus is now sitting at the right hand of the throne of God (Mark 16:19, Acts 2:33, Acts 5:31, Colossians 1:3, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 10:12, Hebrews 12:2, 1 Peter 3:22).

Pedrito hopes this has been of some help to popsthebuilder.

Thank you kindly sir. As usual; your unbiased, opened approach shows the points for what they are without the added weight of preconceptions.

Your posts are always a relief.

peace friend



faith in selfless unity for good