USA Impeach Donald Trump! :)

Status
Not open for further replies.

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,198
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
And Hillary is...?

Hillary is the majority vote winner. Yet ...

Donald Trump's morals are not an especially pertinent issue, nor are Hillary Clinton's. It is their respective competencies for the role of USA president that is pertinent. It may be that Donald will be sworn in only to be impeached as grossly incompetent soon after. One hopes that no major war is created in his first one hundred days.
 

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
61
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
And Hillary is...?

She could be Satan incarnate, and that would have no bearing on Trump's lack of morals. If someone said, "I think Trump's lack of morals is outweighed by Clinton's lack of morals," that I could see, but I have seen people say he is morally decent. That's what I find incredible.
 

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It may be that Donald will be sworn in only to be impeached as grossly incompetent soon after.

Funny - I just got done reading an article, under the guise of journalism, that predicted just that! :D

I gotta get off the internet... Bye for now :wave:
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,198
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Funny - I just got done reading an article, under the guise of journalism, that predicted just that! :D

I do get a good chuckle out of this election. But on the serious side ... Donald Trump's campaign was incompetent yet he won enough votes in various states to get 270+ electoral college reps. So despite his incompetence he is headed for the white house.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Hillary is the majority vote winner. Yet ...


My Australian friend, I doubt you care - and I'm sure you are just talking to talk - but the reality is:


AGAIN, the USA does not elect Presidents by simple majority vote, we do so via the Electoral College. I don't think anyone cares what an Australian thinks of that (glad you hear you elect your Queen and PM by simple majority vote of all Australian voters), FACT is - never in the 240 year history of the USA has ANY significant effort been made to change how WE do this..... not by the Democrat Party, not by the Republican Party, not by ANY of the 50 States (large or small), not by Al Gore or any others who won the national vote but not the Electoral College vote.... and Hillary Clinton is not calling for such now. Again, as an Australian, you may or may not like this but since you aren't an American and this is not Australia, I'm not sure that's significant. If you want to become an American citizen and work to amend the US Constitution in the manner our Rule of Law requires - great (I'd be on your side) but that has nothing to do with the 2000 or 2016 elections. ALL candidates and ALL parties knew the rules going in.....



It is their respective competencies for the role of USA president that is pertinent.

IMO, as an American and a voter in US elections, I think they BOTH were too incompetent to serve, so I didn't vote for either. But we have a process. And one was chosen (or officially soon will be) and will be installed on January 20. It's the Rule of Law in our nation. Australia may do things differently, but that's a matter for Australians to like or not.



It may be that Donald will be sworn in only to be impeached as grossly incompetent soon after.


I doubt either would be impeached for being "incompetent." If that had been the case, probably most US Presidents would have been impeached. Nixon resigned before impreachment trials could begin - but the charges had already been prepared, he was going to be charged for a long list of specific deeds obstruction of justice and for lying about things he had done as president. Clinton was impeached (one of only two in the 240 years of the USA) for lying under oath to a grand jury. I doubt any president would be impreached for saying stupid or offensive things (likely all would have been impeached if that were the case). I think in practice it needs to be a very serious LAW issue pertaining to his exercise of the presidential office, a serious fellony done AS president. Although I admit, this is not well specified in the Constitution.

Our "check" is that he is elected to a 4 year term (unlike your Queen, for example). If he is not well regarded, he can be discontinued in 4 years. And of course, we have "checks and balances" - he can do NOTHING that requires money because the Congress controls all expenditures. He can't appoint any judges because that requires Senate approval. He can't make laws or change laws - that requires a majority vote of Congress. We have a Supreme Court that can rule actions void by being ruled unconstitutional. And while the Republicans hold a very slight majority of the Senate and a solid majority in the House, MANY of these are no fans of Trump! Remember, all living former Republican Presidents didn't support him.... all living former Republicans who can for President did not support him, even Paul Ryan sure did waver. He will have no easy time with the Republicans.... And remember - in the first term, US Presidents usually obsess over their popularity since they start running for re-election the day after their first term begins; Trump (I assure you!) has no desire to be a one-term President, that's the LAST THING he wants, he will do what he can to be popular and well set up for re-election.


I don't suspect you care, perhaps you as an Australian just want to have fun at the expense of Americans with things that aren't the case, and that's okay. There are Americans blowing off steam too. It happens every four years, just like clockwork. And usually, the nation survives. Sometimes that President doesn't get re-elected, usually (of late) they do.



- Josiah
 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
54
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
Hillary and Obama financed ISIS. But all they talk about is some stupid comments Trump made.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,198
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Hillary and Obama financed ISIS. But all they talk about is some stupid comments Trump made.

No, it was Donald Trump who financed IS and who serves Russia's foreign interests. :p
 

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,282
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Funny - I just got done reading an article, under the guise of journalism, that predicted just that! :D

I gotta get off the internet... Bye for now :wave:
With both houses of congress under Republican controlI seriously doubt it
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
She could be Satan incarnate, and that would have no bearing on Trump's lack of morals. If someone said, "I think Trump's lack of morals is outweighed by Clinton's lack of morals," that I could see, but I have seen people say he is morally decent. That's what I find incredible.

I think this is the key here.

So many on one side seem to think Trump is practically angelic and so many on the other side seem to think much the same about Clinton. As far as I can see both have said and done some pretty shameful things, and I'd personally take the stance that Trump is a badly flawed character but Clinton has more serious flaws.

For someone to be in government for as long as she has, and to presumably have a very high level of security clearance, and yet not to know which documents were classified and how they were to be handled, is simply beyond disbelief. Many years ago I worked on a project that incorporated a very small amount of classified material (and I'd hazard a guess nowhere near the levels of classification then-Secretary Clinton was authorised to have). I wasn't allowed to take anything away with me, if I wanted to go to the bathroom the project sponsor (presumably with a much higher clearance than I had) had to escort me to the bathroom and stand outside while I did what was necessary. I was left in no doubt at all the consequences of making copies of the material, of passing it to anyone not authorised to receive it, basically of doing anything with it other than what was specifically allowed. Yet apparently Mrs Clinton didn't know any of this. Maybe the rules in the US are different to the UK but I doubt they are sufficiently different for this to happen.

Of course even ignoring the relative faults of the individuals standing for election, it's not really surprising that people vote the party line. Perhaps a Republican dismayed with Trump as their party's candidate might have considered voting for a Democrat, had it not been a candidate as polarising as Hillary Clinton. It reminds me very much of when John McCain nominated Sarah Palin as his running mate against Barack Obama in 2008 - the party faithful cheered it but Mrs Palin had little to no appeal to the moderate Democrats or the swing voters. In the same way Hillary Clinton is one who has a similarly polarising effect - hardcore Democrats will undoubtedly sing her praises, moderate Democrats would probably vote for her over Donald Trump (for the same reasons moderates may have been put off by Sarah Palin in 2008), moderate Republicans would be unlikely to vote for her, and hardcore Republicans wouldn't vote Democrat regardless of who was on the ticket.

With all the allegations about Clinton effectively rigging the DNC election against Bernie Sanders it is rather ironic that it probably cost the Democrats the presidency.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Hillary is the majority vote winner. Yet ...

Donald Trump's morals are not an especially pertinent issue, nor are Hillary Clinton's. It is their respective competencies for the role of USA president that is pertinent. It may be that Donald will be sworn in only to be impeached as grossly incompetent soon after. One hopes that no major war is created in his first one hundred days.

I don't think that's even remotely close to the mark.

Donald Trump's morals that apparently didn't prevent him from declaring bankruptcy and avoiding paying for work done are of great concern when considering who is fit to be president. The idea that he can negotiate with holders of US Treasuries to take a reduced payment as a means of dealing with the national debt is terrifying - in the world of finance that kind of thing is called a default, triggers payments on untold quantities of credit derivatives, turns US Treasuries from a benchmark risk-free investment against which other bonds are priced into little more than junk bonds and basically turns the entire global financial marketplace on its head. At least the process of devaluing the currency and therefore repaying money with devalued money is subtle enough that most people don't see what's going on.

On the other hand Hillary Clinton's morals that apparently left her seeing nothing wrong with the shady dealings of the Clinton Foundation, nothing wrong with holding classified information on a private server, and nothing wrong with her ongoing issues with basic truthfulness, are of great concern when considering who is fit to be president. When she asked "what difference does it make?" the difference is huge. We can't go back in time and see how things might have turned out had she acted differently but we do need to know whether Secretary Clinton is fundamentally a trustworthy person, sufficiently trustworthy to be elected President Clinton.

In many ways this sounds much like the defense of Bill Clinton over the whole Monica Lewinsky scandal. The defense that turned the question into just what Monica did shortly after crawling under the desk was a masterstroke - it turned the entire scandal into whether or not Bill was unfaithful to Hillary and how that was a matter for Hillary rather than the nation. Along the way the question of whether Bill lied under oath was forgotten.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,198
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
What's Bill got to do with anything?
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
What's Bill got to do with anything?

It was merely a comparison to see how the lines of defense run when looking to shift attention away from misdeeds. Defending Bill took the form of focusing on why it's anyone else's business what Monica did to him (diverting focus away from whether he lied under oath) while defending Hillary took the form of asking what difference it makes now (diverting focus away from the question that whether or not we can trust her is a fairly crucial question when deciding whether or not to vote for her).

I noticed you didn't address the other parts of my post.
 

Ruth

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
4,632
Location
Midwest
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Krissy Cakes

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
3,285
Age
33
Location
Idaho
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Hillary is a compassionate, intelligent, experienced, qualified woman who should be president instead of Trumpkin.


To each his own. Everyone has there opinions.
 

Krissy Cakes

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
3,285
Age
33
Location
Idaho
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I don't feel like reading all the comments through the pages. One question for you [MENTION=60]MoreCoffee[/MENTION] .. Why do you care so much who is president when you don't even live in the US?

:hug2:'s to everyone. Lets love and not hate.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,198
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I don't feel like reading all the comments through the pages. One question for you [MENTION=60]MoreCoffee[/MENTION] .. Why do you care so much who is president when you don't even live in the US?

:hug2:'s to everyone. Lets love and not hate.

Because Donald Trump cared so much about where President Barack Obama was born. Seems only fair to turn the tables :p
 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
54
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
Ah don't worry. If he needs advice I'm sure the man who is famous for making a country big again will want to give him some tips, just like he did with Obama.

Rutte_kneus.jpg
Mom did you see me on tv? I could call him Barack.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom