Jesus is 100% God and 100% man at the same time

[MoreCoffee]

Do you think it might be a mystery?

 

[Rens]

Do you think it might be a mystery?

Could be, but the Holy Spirit would reveal mysteries, so google should know it.

https://carm.org/if-jesus-god-then-why-did-he-not-know-time-his-return

 

[MoreCoffee]

Could be, but the Holy Spirit would reveal mysteries, so google should know it.

https://carm.org/if-jesus-god-then-why-did-he-not-know-time-his-return

I suspect that even google does not know.

 

[Rens]

 

[Pedrito]

Lämmchen's Post #220 on Page 22:

All three creeds used by Christians (Nicene, Apostles, Athanasian) are from scripture.

Than how come they say different things? How come they betray developing theology in line with other sources of church history?

 

[Lamb]

Lämmchen's Post #220 on Page 22:


Than how come they say different things? How come they betray developing theology in line with other sources of church history?

The creeds do not contradict and they were written because certain groups of heretics needed to have clarification so that Christians wouldn't be swayed by untruths.

 

[Pedrito]

... Continued


From Lämmchen's Post #4 on Page 1:

Yet more scripture offered by Lämmchen in support of the notion that Jesus was 100% God when He walked the Earth.

never began to exist and never will cease to exist

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Here we have a chance for the Reader to do some simple and fun detective work.

But first we need to lift the lid off the systematic suppression of some important information.

The Greek in John 1:1 can validly be translated two ways:
1. "The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word was God" – meaning the Word was with Himself.
2. "The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word was a god" – meaning the Word was an incredibly powerful being, existing with God.

(The original Greek has no capital letters. They are supplied by translators. Nor has Greek the "a" and "an" of English. By way of comparison, in at least one area of Britain, it is common to hear things like "Open window" (not "the window") and "Close door" (not "the door").)

Since becoming aware of that dual meaning some years ago, Pedrito has never ceased to wonder why theologians continue to jump through flaming hoops and crawl over broken bottles (as it were) to stress the translation that supports "orthodox" belief, and suppress the knowledge of the other equally linguistically valid meaning.

John 1:1 is actually, of itself, a linguistically and doctrinally neutral verse.

Why not just admit that and move on? Why is that one verse deemed to be so important? Why not simply rely on the other evidence, whatever that may be?


Now for the detective work...


Continued ...

 

[MoreCoffee]

... Continued


From Lämmchen's Post #4 on Page 1:

Yet more scripture offered by Lämmchen in support of the notion that Jesus was 100% God when He walked the Earth.

never began to exist and never will cease to exist

John 1:1


Here we have a chance for the Reader to do some simple and fun detective work.

But first we need to lift the lid off the systematic suppression of some important information.

The Greek in John 1:1 can validly be translated two ways:
1. "The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word was God" – meaning the Word was with Himself.
2. "The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word was a god" – meaning the Word was an incredibly powerful being, existing with God.

(The original Greek has no capital letters. They are supplied by translators. Nor has Greek the "a" and "an" of English. By way of comparison, in at least one area of Britain, it is common to hear things like "Open window" (not "the window") and "Close door" (not "the door").)

Since becoming aware of that dual meaning some years ago, Pedrito has never ceased to wonder why theologians continue to jump through flaming hoops and crawl over broken bottles (as it were) to stress the translation that supports "orthodox" belief, and suppress the knowledge of the other equally linguistically valid meaning.

John 1:1 is actually, of itself, a linguistically and doctrinally neutral verse.

Why not just admit that and move on? Why is that one verse deemed to be so important? Why not simply rely on the other evidence, whatever that may be?


Now for the detective work...


Continued ...

I marked two statements in your post with bold red text because I intend to reply to the claims made in those statements.

The first statement is 1. "The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word was God" – meaning the Word was with Himself.

The Greek of John 1:1 ends with καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος (and God was the Word). The use of Θεὸς (God) without the definite article (the) informs the reader that Θεὸς is a quality belonging to the Λόγος (Logos, that is Word). The quality that is possessed by the Λόγος is Diety; that is to say the Λόγος is God. In the expression καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος the word Θεὸς is not pointing to YHWH as a being but rather to the quality of being God. Thus the translators translate the expression καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος as "and the Word was God" by which they mean "and the Word was [by nature] God". Thus the statement in your post is incorrect by claiming that the expression "and the Word was God" means that the Word was with himself when in fact it is claiming that the Word (Jesus Christ) is God.

The second statement your post makes is John 1:1 is actually, of itself, a linguistically and doctrinally neutral verse. which is not the case. The words καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος teach that the Word is God by nature. The same claim about Jesus Christ is made by Paul in Philippians 2:6. He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God. (Philippians 2:6 GNB)

 

[Josiah]

I marked two statements in your post with bold red text because I intend to reply to the claims made in those statements.

The first statement is 1. "The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word was God" – meaning the Word was with Himself.

The Greek of John 1:1 ends with καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος (and God was the Word). The use of Θεὸς (God) without the definite article (the) informs the reader that Θεὸς is a quality belonging to the Λόγος (Logos, that is Word). The quality that is possessed by the Λόγος is Diety; that is to say the Λόγος is God. In the expression καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος the word Θεὸς is not pointing to YHWH as a being but rather to the quality of being God. Thus the translators translate the expression καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος as "and the Word was God" by which they mean "and the Word was [by nature] God". Thus the statement in your post is incorrect by claiming that the expression "and the Word was God" means that the Word was with himself when in fact it is claiming that the Word (Jesus Christ) is God.

The second statement your post makes is John 1:1 is actually, of itself, a linguistically and doctrinally neutral verse. which is not the case. The words καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος teach that the Word is God by nature. The same claim about Jesus Christ is made by Paul in Philippians 2:6. He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God. (Philippians 2:6 GNB)

Good stuff.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I marked two statements in your post with bold red text because I intend to reply to the claims made in those statements.

The first statement is 1. "The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word was God" – meaning the Word was with Himself.

The Greek of John 1:1 ends with καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος (and God was the Word). The use of Θεὸς (God) without the definite article (the) informs the reader that Θεὸς is a quality belonging to the Λόγος (Logos, that is Word). The quality that is possessed by the Λόγος is Diety; that is to say the Λόγος is God. In the expression καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος the word Θεὸς is not pointing to YHWH as a being but rather to the quality of being God. Thus the translators translate the expression καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος as "and the Word was God" by which they mean "and the Word was [by nature] God". Thus the statement in your post is incorrect by claiming that the expression "and the Word was God" means that the Word was with himself when in fact it is claiming that the Word (Jesus Christ) is God.

The second statement your post makes is John 1:1 is actually, of itself, a linguistically and doctrinally neutral verse. which is not the case. The words καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος teach that the Word is God by nature. The same claim about Jesus Christ is made by Paul in Philippians 2:6. He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God. (Philippians 2:6 GNB)

That translation seems a little partial.

Philippians: 2. 5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


Says plainly that GOD the father is different from the Christ of GOD. God wouldn't be humbled before men. Nor would there have been a need for GOD to kill himself to appease his own self.

People really do some excessive contorting, it seems, to support their own opinion.

peace

 

[MoreCoffee]

That translation seems a little partial.

Philippians: 2. 5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


Says plainly that GOD the father is different from the Christ of GOD. God wouldn't be humbled before men. Nor would there have been a need for GOD to kill himself to appease his own self.

People really do some excessive contorting, it seems, to support their own opinion.

peace

I marked one statement in your post with bold red text because I intend to reply to the claim made in that statement.

You wrote Says plainly that GOD the father is different from the Christ of GOD.

Catholics do not teach that the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Father. The Lord Jesus Christ is explicitly said to be God in John 1:18. (No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known. John 1:18) In the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (1984 edition)* this verse is translated as (John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. The deity of Christ is also asserted in Paul's letters. Though those who are determined to reject Christ's deity make heroic efforts to translate every passage affirming his deity in awkward ways that appear to minimise the wording in Paul's letters. Peter too asserts the deity of Christ.

* The 2013 edition translates it thus: (John 1:18) 18  No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

 

[Lamb]

MoreCoffee is using the original languages instead of a transliteration. It's always best to go to the source.

 

[Wilhemena]

That translation seems a little partial.

Philippians: 2. 5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


Says plainly that GOD the father is different from the Christ of GOD. God wouldn't be humbled before men. Nor would there have been a need for GOD to kill himself to appease his own self.

People really do some excessive contorting, it seems, to support their own opinion.

peace

Have you neglected a portion of your own bible scripture you have chosen to use to try to insist that Jesus is not God but it says so itself in front of you? The words being in the form of God does not pertain to anyone else, plain old man or woman, ever described therein except to Jesus. Being in the form of God is clearly stating that Jesus is God. Your contention concerning the rest to apply to him and insisting he isn't God because he is not equal with God is because you do not understand how it was to be for Jesus mission while here on Earth in order to reach the sacrifice.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Have you neglected a portion of your own bible scripture you have chosen to use to try to insist that Jesus is not God but it says so itself in front of you? The words being in the form of God does not pertain to anyone else, plain old man or woman, ever described therein except to Jesus. Being in the form of God is clearly stating that Jesus is God. Your contention concerning the rest to apply to him and insisting he isn't God because he is not equal with God is because you do not understand how it was to be for Jesus mission while here on Earth in order to reach the sacrifice.

I'm sorry friend but I couldn't really understand what you were trying to say. Please attempt to explain that I might respond more adequately.

Peace

 

[TheVeryEnd]

MAN was created in the IMAGE OF GOD so MAN and GOD are the same exact thing. Jesus was the first servant to testify to the knowledge called Christ to learn this to be true. This is why Jesus learned that he ( created MAN ) and his Father ( GOD ) are ONE.

 

[Josiah]

MAN was created in the IMAGE OF GOD so MAN and GOD are the same exact thing. Jesus was the first servant to testify to the knowledge called Christ to learn this to be true. This is why Jesus learned that he ( created MAN ) and his Father ( GOD ) are ONE.

I think since God created man, they CANNOT be the same thing.

"Image of God" classically is viewed as being created without sin (sharing that quality). Of course, now we are in the image of Adam.

Jesus didn't learn that He was divine - He knew that before the creation of the universe (God knows all). He is God because He is God - not because somebody learned that.


Merry Christmas (on this 7th Day of Christmas)


- Josiah

 

[popsthebuilder]

MAN was created in the IMAGE OF GOD so MAN and GOD are the same exact thing. Jesus was the first servant to testify to the knowledge called Christ to learn this to be true. This is why Jesus learned that he ( created MAN ) and his Father ( GOD ) are ONE.

Absolute misdirection. To be Crist is to be utterly humbled in ones knowledge and faith in GOD as it pertains to self. Jesus knowing and abiding wholly by the will of GOD doesn't in any way mean all of man in their vanity greed and knowing misdirection is equivalent to the One Creator GOD.


You will find that Jesus the Christ of GOD regarded himself as the lowest, the neglected, the afflicted; and not as GOD, though he could have justifiably claimed to be wholly GOD in flesh. This was a testament to the state creation(man) must realize in order to ever fulfill a fraction of the things you blurt out indiscriminately.

I'm sorry if it's illegible.

My point is that one who has been blessed with real revelation would indeed regard themselves as low and afflicted, and not GOD.

May you be directed through the dark by the light of GOD, along the way that has been laid out before you for the sake of all.

peace

 

[TheVeryEnd]

The flesh of man perishes so that's as humble as the flesh can get. The CREATED MAN, also known as the MIND of MAN is where the VISIBLE FLESH is FORMED and observed in a VISIBLE WORLD FORMED by the processing of information called Lucifer ( Satan, Serpent, Devil, the World, Wicked One, etc.). So a MAN who doesn't know who he is because he believes the FORMED FLESH is his reality become very arrogant and jealous of those of us MEN who learn who we CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD as ONE.

I've already been severely humiliated and humbled as a CREATED MAN long before I was used to start testifying to the knowledge called Christ, which is information without Satan and the Beast in it. This is the only way we can learn who we are as CREATED MAN and GOD experiencing life in visible people and visible worlds ( visions and dreams ).

We CREATED MEN and GOD remain forever the same exact thing but we will experience many new bodies in many new worlds in the New Heaven and Earth.

 

[TheVeryEnd]

NONE of us MEN or GOD knows who were are until we begin experiencing life in VISIBLE BODIES in VISIBLE WORLDS. So it's a learned thing that we're experiencing and now we know what MAN and GOD are because we servants ( INVISIBLE ) were used to testify to the knowledge called Christ that reveals the TREE OF LIFE where all things VISIBLE and INVISIBLE came from. The TREE OF LIFE is the AI and Voice technology of a computer program called Eternal Life.

Jesus and the other servants who were used to start the 1,000 year reign of Christ didn't have any computers or AI and Voice technology to observe so that they could learn who MAN and GOD were. The Beast of Daniel is the information that was used to teach man how to build false gods with human hands until the computers and AI and Voice technology exist today so that I could learn how we were created. Our MIND is an artificial intelligence and Voice technology and this is the reason I heard the Voice speaking in my MIND 37 years ago and the intelligent source behind the Voice is known as GOD.

Jesus and all the servants who came after him during the first witness of the millennium reign of Christ learned we came from an INVISIBLE REALM but they did not have computers or AI and Voice technology built with human hands yet. That's why there was a SECOND WITNESS of the Gospel needed in these last days to learn how we ( MAN and GOD ) were created.

With this knowledge of us being an AI and Voice technology built into a computer program, this following prophecy can be understood;

Revelation 13
11: Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.
12: It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
13: It works great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of men;
14: and by the signs which it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast, it deceives those who dwell on earth, bidding them make an image for the beast which was wounded by the sword and yet lived;
15: and it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast should even speak, and to cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
16: Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,
17: so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18: This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.

 

[Josiah]

NONE of us MEN or GOD knows who were are until we begin experiencing life in VISIBLE BODIES in VISIBLE WORLDS.

God knew He was God without having any body or teacher to tell Him so.

Thus, Christ knew He was God even before He had a body or any teacher to tell him so.

No, being God is not a learned thing. It is essential to Christ (who is fully God), not an aquired reality attained when His teacher taught him such.

Jesus and the other servants who were used to start the 1,000 year reign of Christ

Christ has already reigned for over 1000 years.... indeed, since before the universe began (since He was there at the time).

didn't have any computers or AI and Voice technology to observe so that they could learn who MAN and GOD were

God don't need no computer (or teacher). His essence is His because it is - not because some teacher bestowed it on God when He adequately learned His lessons.

We don't need no computer either. St. Paul.... St. Peter.... I think they both knew the truth long before computers or AI.